What's wrong with slide mounted safeties?

[socalbeachbum]

I'm working on choosing my next toy. I like the HK USP 9mm, Beretta PX4, Beretta M9A1. The Beretta's I've fired and like a lot. The USP I have not been able to test, I'm just told it is nice, accurate, desirable, etc.

Question, I see comments about slide mounted safeties, but never any detail as to why some think it is a negative thing compared to frame mounted.

Can anyone render an opinion about these 3 pistols? I'm thinking of 9mm, it is my favorite round.

 

[Coal Dragger]

A slide mounted safety is not only inconvenient to operate for many shooters without shifting their shooting hand, it presents a risk in emergency situations of on safe-ing the pistol inadvertently.

If you have to do a slide lock reload under stress and you use the sling shot method of grasping the slide and sling shoting it back by hand you can easily put the Beretta pistol on 92FS/M9 on safe. Same for malfunction clearing in a tap rack bang (immediate action), you tap the magazine to ensure it is seated, rack the slide, and go to pull the trigger again for the *BANG* portion and get nothing because you saftied the pistol. Very inconvenient when someone is trying to kill you.

If you want a Beretta get a 92G which is decock only with no safety, the worst that happens if you rude that lever on accident is you start off with a double action 1st shot. No big deal. That and a "D" main spring for the hammer makes the 92 what it should have been in the first place.

If you can find one the Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical is the definitive Beretta 92, it has everything a serious user would want: G decocker, D mainspring, heavy duty Brigadier slide, railed frame, Wilson Combat battle sights, Elite II style match barrel, rounded trigger guard, checkered frame, and aggressive G10 micarta grips. Plus they ship with 3 current sand resistant magazines.

I want one of these badly.

 

[socalbeachbum]

ok, makes sense, I get it. since most of my experience has been indoor range, bullseye type slow fire for the past x years, I haven't had the 'tactical' experience others have.

I like the Sig P226, but find the loaded chamber indicator to be in my line of sight. I suppose I could get taller 'tactical' sights. That would make the 226 good for me.

What about the USP, is the safety lever decock only. Out of the box? Or does it need parts installed to make it decock only?

So maybe the Brigadier, the P2022, P226 are my new considerations.

I had the FNP-9 and liked it overall but it was not too accurate the barrel was loose when locked up. Could have been fixed probably but I sold it.

 

[jmr40]

I prefer not to have the safety there, but also think the complaints are over stated. Like anything else they have positives and negatives and can be effective. Most of the complaints are from folks who are just used to a different type of safety, or none at all, and struggle with it.

I prefer not to have a safety on a DA/SA pistol and if it has one like the Beretta I simply use it as a decocker and never use it as a safety. The DA trigger pull is no different from a revolver does not require a safety in my opinion.

 

[basicblur]

I don't know how many slide mounted safeties are this way (I think many European guns are?), but some of them I've played with operate "backwards" (at least to me).

I have no problem with a safety, but I like it to operate like a 1911 - ergonomic, and you swipe it down to take the safety off so your thumb is moving towards its normal firing position.

With some of the Euro-style slide mounted safeties, you have to swipe the safety up to knock it off - then you have to move your thumb down in order to get your thumb in its normal firing position.

Replace one (ergonomic) motion with two...what's not to like? :banghead:

 

[ttarp]

I've never been rolling around in the dirt with any of my pistols, but I am a bit incredulous about slide mounted safeties being significantly easier to accidentally engage.

I have a slight preference for frame mounted safeties, but slide mounted safeties do make a convenient extra gripping point when racking the slide.

The USP has multiple versions, the most common is V1, decocker and safety. I think you have to buy the kits for whichever of the 10 versions you want.

 

[Deaf Smith]

What's wrong with slide mounted safeties?

Nothing. You train to take them off when starting to draw and put them back on just before holstering. No big deal.

And yes, in my long carrier I've used 1911s & P35s(frame safety), S&W 3913 and Makarovs (slide safeties), SIG 229/239 (frame decockers), Ruger P94 (slide decocker), Glocks (no real manual safety), and even old Beretta Brigadier with frame mounted push button!

Just a matter of training.

Deaf

 

[MIL-DOT]

I don't have a problem with them, I never got what the big deal was. I have them on gen 3 Smiths, and they work well, and I have no problem transitioning between them, and the 1911 safety, or the CZ de-cocker, or whatever. It always sounds to me like folks getting worked up over a largely hypothetical 1-in-a-million self-defense scenario where there MIGHT be a milli-second of confusion.
If you prictice the most with your main SD pistol, then having other guns with other systems shouldn't be a huge issue.
Anyway,that's always been my feeling on them.

 

[CDW4ME]

My wife likes the slide mounted safety on her S&W 3913 and Beretta PX4, can make racking the slide a bit easier and offers a manual safety if desired.

 

[Harleytoo]

The PX4 is a great gun. I have the Compact and subcompact. They shoot well and carry well. Look for the thread review I did on them.

The safety can be both converted to a de cocker only and converted to smaller stealth levers. Very easy conversion.

For the money a very underrated gun for a great price. Never had an issue with the levers.

 

[Harleytoo]

Here is the thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=802640

 

[Jim K]

Slide-mounted safeties generally are used with DA/SA pistols which are normally carried with the hammer down and the safety off. Frame mounted safeties normally are used with SA pistols, which many folks prefer to carry "cocked and locked". With DA/SA or DAO pistols, the slide mounted safety usually either is or is replaced by a decocking lever.

There are obviously different concepts involved, but the placement of the safety is not the main concern - it arises from the basic firing system.

Jim

 

[JTQ]

basicblur wrote,
With some of the Euro-style slide mounted safeties, you have to swipe the safety up to knock it off - then you have to move your thumb down in order to get your thumb in its normal firing position.

Replace one (ergonomic) motion with two...what's not to like?

Of course all the S&W TDA guns, and Ruger P-Series guns all had the same style "Euro-style" safeties.

You could just swipe the safety down. http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=15317

Jim K wrote,
Slide-mounted safeties generally are used with DA/SA pistols which are normally carried with the hammer down and the safety off.

As Jim K said, nearly everybody, unless directed to do so by their employer, carry their DA/SA gun with a safety/decocker with the hammer down and the safety off.

 

[socalbeachbum]

ok PX4 can be converted to a decocker, that is excellent, it's very accurate, the placement of the lever is a bit high, of course.

Decocking is essentially a 'stand-down' type of safety, and I'm adjusting my train of thought here.

I'd think the SIG SP2022, P226, P229, would be good out of the box choices, and with modes, the USP 9.

 

[guyfromohio]

The internet overthought it.

 

[jjones45]

The only potential concern I know of is inadvertently putting the safety on while manipulating the slide while performing malfunction clearances. The frame mounted safety is way more intuitive if the intent is to carry with the safety on. However the 92 isn't really made to carry with the safety on as its more to decock to put the gun in da. I'm not a fan of the slide mounted safety but I had a 92fs that I owned and occasionally carried for a few years and never had a problem with it. If I were to get another beretta I would surely get a G model as I would never use a safety on that pistol.

 

[strambo]

I like the Sig P226, but find the loaded chamber indicator to be in my line of sight. I suppose I could get taller 'tactical' sights. That would make the 226 good for me.

Where did you see a P226 with a loaded chamber indicator? I haven't heard of one, I carry a P226 all the time.

 

[JTQ]

Where did you see a P226 with a loaded chamber indicator? I haven't heard of one, I carry a P226 all the time.

Note the OP is in California.

 

[Harleytoo]

I carry one of the PX4's or a Sig P229/P220. All DA/SA. I also will carry a EMP condition one. But I train with them all. So while I prefer the DA/SA remembering to drop the safety on the EMP is not an issue.

I will say I prefer the PX4's more since I converted them.

 

[MAKster]

One advantage of the slide mounted safety is that you can put the safety on and then rack the slide to load the first round. The gun will automatically decock so the gun is never cocked with the safety off. With a design like the Sigs the hammer is cocked back first and then you use the decocker.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You could just swipe the safety down. http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=15317

That is how I swipe off the safety on a Beretta 92/96, interestingly, I learned it from Ernest Langdon also...but many years ago

Pushing the slide mounted safety up to disengage is a left over from the S&W autos. The slide mounted safety on the Beretta is spring loaded to "pop up" when pushed forward.

OP- Somethings to note if you haven't handled a H&K USP yet.
1. While the Beretta's grip is a bit blocky, the USP's is much more so.
2. The USP has a very long trigger pull and is usually described as mushy

The SIG 2022 is definitely a "Best Value" of the pistols you've listed. The ones I've seen in CA don't have the LCI

 

[DPris]

Years ago, I carried a personally-owned Smith 4516-2 on & off duty.

I liked the compact big-bore power that wasn't too small for a duty belt & wasn't too big for concealed carry.

I did not like the slide-mounted safety, but didn't carry it safety on & didn't worry about it.

Then came the qualification day where we were doing malfunction clearance drills.
During one, I did the required procedure & cleared the problem set up by the range instructors.
Pistol back up on target to finish a timed firing sequence.
No boom.

Tap-rack-no boom, again.

Took valuable seconds to figure out that during the first clearance manipulations I'd accidentally somehow safed the pistol while my left hand was working the slide.

Finished the day, paying very close attention to that safety.
Two weeks later I was carrying a Glock.

Still have that old Smith, but never carried it since & never will again.
Or any other defensive pistol with a slide safety.
I won't take the chance.

Just me, and you do whatever you want, but that's my experience & my reason.
And I was not new to pistols by any means when it happened.
Denis

 

[rcmodel]

Pushing the slide mounted safety up to disengage is a left over from the S&W autos.

Its actually left over from the first SA/DA autos.

Namely the Walther PPK and P-38 the first S&W Auto, the Model 39 was based on.

My problem with them is they operate bass ackwards from every other safety in the world.

In most other guns, UP is safe and DOWN is fire.

The slide mounted safety's as used on most all guns of the type are DOWN is safe and UP is fire.

Of course, they were never intended to be used as carry safety's in the first place.

They are first and foremost, De-Cockers.

And they work quite nicely at that.

Just don't use them for a safety after you load, as it isn't needed anyway on a DA pistol with the hammer down.

rc

 

[9mmepiphany]

I should add that the Beretta is the only pistol where I teach using the Slide Stop to release the slide from slide-lock. It avoid the potential of activating the safety.

When I do need to use an overhand grab to rack the slide, I just leave my strong-hand thumb up so that it pushes the safety off, or at least passes through that area, while returning to it's shooting position

 

[kozak6]

Slide mounted safeties are generally swiped upwards to put the gun on "Fire".

This is backwards from most other pistols and is an inherently weak motion. Also, slide mounted safeties are often mounted high on the slide, requiring a large hand or long thumbs to be used effectively.

I have small hands. Except for the Makarov, my other pistols have conventional frame mounted safeties or have no external safety at all.

I can see myself fumbling and struggling to deactivate a slide mounted safety in an emergency. It causes me some concern.

The Makarov has an unusual slide mounted safety. It might as well be a conventional frame mounted safety. It is highly accessible and low on the slide, and swiping downwards puts it on "Fire". Putting the pistol on "Safe" also decocks it (and locks the slide closed for some reason).

I would be perfectly satisfied with a Makarov style safety on other pistols, but a Beretta style safety causes me pause.