Eleven Mike
Member
BMWG, good to see you checkin' in! How's the Tenth Cav?
When protector is away from home
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
- Start date
- Status
BlackManWithAGun
Member
"As fine as frogs hair"
I am actually doing pretty well. I actually don’t know how the Tenth Cavalry Gun Club is doing though. A few years back I decided to step down as president and let the group I founded group-- grow on its own. Think I failed as a parent because everyone that was in it when I was there is gone and I don’t hear much from the NJ, MD or IL groups.
Going to try to continue the fight again in 2007 with the use of the computer, internet and this podcasting phenom on Generation Next and the hip among the more senior shooters. It's cheaper than doing a road show, or trying to stage a rally.
I am actually doing pretty well. I actually don’t know how the Tenth Cavalry Gun Club is doing though. A few years back I decided to step down as president and let the group I founded group-- grow on its own. Think I failed as a parent because everyone that was in it when I was there is gone and I don’t hear much from the NJ, MD or IL groups.
Going to try to continue the fight again in 2007 with the use of the computer, internet and this podcasting phenom on Generation Next and the hip among the more senior shooters. It's cheaper than doing a road show, or trying to stage a rally.
gyp_c2
Member
hmmm...
...I like it...
EBR and all...
I like the one with Carbine slung; substitute maybe," How 'Bout You?" for the last line...Very cool, and thanks again for this place...
...I like it...
EBR and all...
I like the one with Carbine slung; substitute maybe," How 'Bout You?" for the last line...Very cool, and thanks again for this place...
Eleven Mike
Member
Ken, I hope your efforts pay off. The pro-gun side needs "diverse" voices, for lack of a better word.
george29
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,670
Oleg, as you are well aware, advertisement is another form of propaganda. In it's cleverest forms, it sways opinion in the simplest manner. It is also extremely important that it enter the subconscious plateau where behavior manifests.
After reading most of the opinions here, I would like to offer my insight to your wonderful work (I am just another armchair commando but love you activist type).
These are not my thoughts, rather a compilation of the other valuable posts already written.
1) Weapon should be a handgun, long-arms are not on very many issues of RKBA, handguns are the panic and focus. IMO, handgun should be as "evil" looking as possible as the rest of the picture will soften the "evil" gun's image. I would suggest a Glock, Sig, Taurus or anything that has a large capacity magazine, anything that looks like it is way over 10 rounds, hence we deal with that issue. The handgun should be one of those type that are typically featured as icons on news stories involving domestic murders and gang warfare, in this way we allow the people you are trying to reach a connection to the same weapon that in all probably the anti's will use to reach their crowd. All of a sudden, this gun is not an "us-against-them-association", and helps to cripple the anti agenda. I also believe that those that viewed the couple as white supremacist were based on the weapon first and then the couples other features second, I too had such a fleeting thought.
2) Inter-racial couple. This is a good idea except for one thing, it refocuses the main issue (gun control) to a sub culture issue (race). Advertising / propaganda has to be so simple as to not cloud the mind with different issues, the poster has to say one thing (90%) to as many people as possible (60-80%) in a one second glance that will register in the subconscious. Advertising / propaganda is achieved through time, not enough will not have a measurable impact, too much may cause distancing. Focus on how the Tobacco industry sold their poison, through soft images. Different brands focused on different people (Marlboro v Kool v Eve).
3) Demographics. Social level. Age. Sixty to eighty percent of the people need to first identify themselves in the picture before any effect can take place, for example, I began smoking during high school, and then "for real" in the military. When I lit-up (haven't for 5 years now), I wasn't "Joe Cool" in the army, I was "The Marlboro Man" sitting on a horse atop a mountain looking at my "spread" in Montana (where I have never yet visited). When I needed escape, all I needed to do was light a cigarette (never a "square", "smoke", "coffin nail" etc). BTW, have you noticed that chewing tobacco no longer is the rave since ball players chew gum? People associate with their heroes and emulate them.
4) Who makes the real decisions in the house? Be honest! We do for "her" even when we don't want to, and most guys want to do nothing other than relax and be left alone as long as their are 3 squares a day, and some "cooperation" twice a week (yeah, we all know some of you are superman and "do it" with her twice a night, spare us the agony please). Your picture targets "her" as "helpless" and "pregnant" in the eyes of most women, even if you believe it to depict the truth, the truth does not set one free. This picture alienates those women who do vote, and I doubt they can picture themselves as the woman in your ad. In the presidential elections of 2000, 61% of women voted as opposed to 58% men. www.usinfo.state.gov/dhr/Archive/2004/Apr/14-284075.html
I never heard of the "Dozen-Dad" march, but we all heard of the original "Million-Mom" march that filled Washington, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Mom_March and understand the power of organization that women possess.
My suggestions as an armchair cowboy;
Woman is very, very light toned African American with Caucasian features, Vanessa Williams comes to mind, she is in very elegant nightwear, maybe an elegant robe over nice P.J’s. Woman is not pregnant, she is approximately 34 years of age, very proportionate height/weight/body features (no big chest or unusually firm muscle tone, she is no taller than 5’7”) she looks successful and focused, ready to deal with any problem (the Helen Reddy song “I Am Woman” type). Women is holding “evil” Glock 17 (it will look bigger in her hands) at “Ready” (45* angle toward floor) facing threat (either a closed bedroom door or something which is obviously not in the picture). No tattoos.
Man is masculine, trim and firmly toned Caucasian, no facial hair whatsoever, no tattoos showing, dressed in elegant PJ’s with elegant yet masculine robe (shows husband and wife as a team), he is standing at her right side but a few inches behind facing almost perpendicular toward camera, his right shoulder is very slightly touching the back of her right shoulder (not really touching as he will be taller by about 4 inches). Right hand is holding cell phone to ear, left hand around the children, Two girls and a boy. Girl 1 is apprx. 15 with same features as mom, her back is touching mom’s back, she has right arm wrapped around young boy, 7 or 8 and same features as mom but his back is to camera, he is clutching Girl 1 with both arms wrapped around her waist, her left arm holding dad’s phone-arm elbow. Girl two is facing same direction as mom, dad has left arm around her, she is apprx. 11 with dad’s features.
Your message is directed toward all women, race plays no part, the all important message to women who do vote is conveyed. Elegant does not mean affluent, but they are hard working, normal, liberal but not overly, progressive people. Is there a man here that does not want his woman to be as proficient as he with weapons? A woman that is not afraid of guns? What woman doesn’t dream of such a family (probably men too but we would never say so out loud)? Women fantasies of saving their men just as we about being the homecoming hero.
A picture like this says at a glance, “we own a gun, and are normal just like you”. For effect, you could put the butt of another pistol from hubby’s robe which would state; “here to back you up honey, but you are doing fine and I trust you unquestionably”.
That was more than $.02 but people like you (doers) are important to all of us who support RKBA issues. Hope this was of some help.
After reading most of the opinions here, I would like to offer my insight to your wonderful work (I am just another armchair commando but love you activist type).
These are not my thoughts, rather a compilation of the other valuable posts already written.
1) Weapon should be a handgun, long-arms are not on very many issues of RKBA, handguns are the panic and focus. IMO, handgun should be as "evil" looking as possible as the rest of the picture will soften the "evil" gun's image. I would suggest a Glock, Sig, Taurus or anything that has a large capacity magazine, anything that looks like it is way over 10 rounds, hence we deal with that issue. The handgun should be one of those type that are typically featured as icons on news stories involving domestic murders and gang warfare, in this way we allow the people you are trying to reach a connection to the same weapon that in all probably the anti's will use to reach their crowd. All of a sudden, this gun is not an "us-against-them-association", and helps to cripple the anti agenda. I also believe that those that viewed the couple as white supremacist were based on the weapon first and then the couples other features second, I too had such a fleeting thought.
2) Inter-racial couple. This is a good idea except for one thing, it refocuses the main issue (gun control) to a sub culture issue (race). Advertising / propaganda has to be so simple as to not cloud the mind with different issues, the poster has to say one thing (90%) to as many people as possible (60-80%) in a one second glance that will register in the subconscious. Advertising / propaganda is achieved through time, not enough will not have a measurable impact, too much may cause distancing. Focus on how the Tobacco industry sold their poison, through soft images. Different brands focused on different people (Marlboro v Kool v Eve).
3) Demographics. Social level. Age. Sixty to eighty percent of the people need to first identify themselves in the picture before any effect can take place, for example, I began smoking during high school, and then "for real" in the military. When I lit-up (haven't for 5 years now), I wasn't "Joe Cool" in the army, I was "The Marlboro Man" sitting on a horse atop a mountain looking at my "spread" in Montana (where I have never yet visited). When I needed escape, all I needed to do was light a cigarette (never a "square", "smoke", "coffin nail" etc). BTW, have you noticed that chewing tobacco no longer is the rave since ball players chew gum? People associate with their heroes and emulate them.
4) Who makes the real decisions in the house? Be honest! We do for "her" even when we don't want to, and most guys want to do nothing other than relax and be left alone as long as their are 3 squares a day, and some "cooperation" twice a week (yeah, we all know some of you are superman and "do it" with her twice a night, spare us the agony please). Your picture targets "her" as "helpless" and "pregnant" in the eyes of most women, even if you believe it to depict the truth, the truth does not set one free. This picture alienates those women who do vote, and I doubt they can picture themselves as the woman in your ad. In the presidential elections of 2000, 61% of women voted as opposed to 58% men. www.usinfo.state.gov/dhr/Archive/2004/Apr/14-284075.html
I never heard of the "Dozen-Dad" march, but we all heard of the original "Million-Mom" march that filled Washington, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Mom_March and understand the power of organization that women possess.
My suggestions as an armchair cowboy;
Woman is very, very light toned African American with Caucasian features, Vanessa Williams comes to mind, she is in very elegant nightwear, maybe an elegant robe over nice P.J’s. Woman is not pregnant, she is approximately 34 years of age, very proportionate height/weight/body features (no big chest or unusually firm muscle tone, she is no taller than 5’7”) she looks successful and focused, ready to deal with any problem (the Helen Reddy song “I Am Woman” type). Women is holding “evil” Glock 17 (it will look bigger in her hands) at “Ready” (45* angle toward floor) facing threat (either a closed bedroom door or something which is obviously not in the picture). No tattoos.
Man is masculine, trim and firmly toned Caucasian, no facial hair whatsoever, no tattoos showing, dressed in elegant PJ’s with elegant yet masculine robe (shows husband and wife as a team), he is standing at her right side but a few inches behind facing almost perpendicular toward camera, his right shoulder is very slightly touching the back of her right shoulder (not really touching as he will be taller by about 4 inches). Right hand is holding cell phone to ear, left hand around the children, Two girls and a boy. Girl 1 is apprx. 15 with same features as mom, her back is touching mom’s back, she has right arm wrapped around young boy, 7 or 8 and same features as mom but his back is to camera, he is clutching Girl 1 with both arms wrapped around her waist, her left arm holding dad’s phone-arm elbow. Girl two is facing same direction as mom, dad has left arm around her, she is apprx. 11 with dad’s features.
Your message is directed toward all women, race plays no part, the all important message to women who do vote is conveyed. Elegant does not mean affluent, but they are hard working, normal, liberal but not overly, progressive people. Is there a man here that does not want his woman to be as proficient as he with weapons? A woman that is not afraid of guns? What woman doesn’t dream of such a family (probably men too but we would never say so out loud)? Women fantasies of saving their men just as we about being the homecoming hero.
A picture like this says at a glance, “we own a gun, and are normal just like you”. For effect, you could put the butt of another pistol from hubby’s robe which would state; “here to back you up honey, but you are doing fine and I trust you unquestionably”.
That was more than $.02 but people like you (doers) are important to all of us who support RKBA issues. Hope this was of some help.
BlackManWithAGun
Member
the big pay off
thanks. I hope it will. I like trying new things in an attempt to reach just one new person. If I can inspire the right "one" he/she might take this movement a little further.
thanks. I hope it will. I like trying new things in an attempt to reach just one new person. If I can inspire the right "one" he/she might take this movement a little further.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
George29,
I'd love to set up such a shot, but I am limited in my selection of models. I rely on finding willing subjects around me. Hiring pros isn't an option for two reasons: cost and the dearth of pro models with gun handling skills.
I'd love to set up such a shot, but I am limited in my selection of models. I rely on finding willing subjects around me. Hiring pros isn't an option for two reasons: cost and the dearth of pro models with gun handling skills.
george29
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,670
I bet there are enough members here that would fill the capacity of that "ideal" family and be willing to travel, I certainly would help (I doubt my features are the right ones but who knows). Where would you advertise? If in an effective manner, perhaps ask for contributions, I always have spare change for the right purpose and would be happy to donate. As I stated, you sound like a doer, start doing, everything will fall in place. If we find the right "models" on this forum, I doubt motel and gas would be all that much that couldn't be donated by a forum fund-raiser, say at the very most $2000 covered by 400 members is $50 apiece. Explain what your plan is, who and where you are targetting, through which media (bill boards)?
Finish your project (with donated $) and then if it is really good, get more help via organized RKBA groups for funding to advertise.
Or am I mistaken in your intentions?
Remember, a picture paints a thousand words.
Finish your project (with donated $) and then if it is really good, get more help via organized RKBA groups for funding to advertise.
Or am I mistaken in your intentions?
Remember, a picture paints a thousand words.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
I have no faith in pro-RKBA fundraisers.
My intention is to make these images available for grassroot publication.
I can get the right models eventually, but I'd like to refine the ideas before committing scarce resources.
My intention is to make these images available for grassroot publication.
I can get the right models eventually, but I'd like to refine the ideas before committing scarce resources.
george29
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,670
My best ideas come when I am preoccupied, just took a shower and the answer popped in my head. Get the 5 people that match the age/height/weight/race from your area, then ask for photo's from willing members and photoshop the faces, it's done everyday.
Advertise in craigslist for models that want to build up their portfolios, payment will be given in the form of negatives or pictures for their portfolio, I think you will be surprised by the outcome and no $ actually changes hands.
Uh Oh!! I will help you in anyway I can, just PM me. RKBA is that important to me.
Advertise in craigslist for models that want to build up their portfolios, payment will be given in the form of negatives or pictures for their portfolio, I think you will be surprised by the outcome and no $ actually changes hands.
Uh Oh!! I will help you in anyway I can, just PM me. RKBA is that important to me.
mrmeval
Member
A) Both of them wearing PPE
B) She should have the gun with him pointing or in some other way instructing.
C) some sort of range setting or a bullseye laying in scene.
PPE=Personal Protection Equipment. Hearing and Eye protection.
B) She should have the gun with him pointing or in some other way instructing.
C) some sort of range setting or a bullseye laying in scene.
PPE=Personal Protection Equipment. Hearing and Eye protection.
I think the pic is fine..I'm not sure the gun is the best for this application, though. I tend to think the more out of the mainstream the models are, the more mainstream the firearms should be. A small, wood stocked .410 might be good.
Also, this is just my experience, and someone more qualified might jump in, but I believe if you're using a black person to model a poster whose focus is other blacks, you might be best using a hunting gun as well.
For military or other non-mainstream guns, I'd use as clean cut a model as possible.
Also, this is just my experience, and someone more qualified might jump in, but I believe if you're using a black person to model a poster whose focus is other blacks, you might be best using a hunting gun as well.
For military or other non-mainstream guns, I'd use as clean cut a model as possible.
mustanger98
Member
I agree. Gotta maintain a balance. If a fence sitter sees somebody they don't agree with for whatever reason that only goes to appearance, they're liable to say something about how they "shouldn't have an assault rifle" which will only translates to "let's disarm anybody we don't like". Distrust based on appearance is a nasty kind of deal. Disarming someone based on that is a dirty gag. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks so.
I'm thinking any single-shot or double barrel shotgun would work very well. Those are hunting and skeet guns that, regardless of some attitudes, can go defensive in a hurry. Or maybe use a levergun or M1 Carbine. The key is mindset.
Really good idea. How many of us have grandparents we worry about?
BrennanKG
Member
Oleg,
Great work as always. You have an artist's eye and a philosopher's soul.
Really interesting discussion, especially the parts touching on the appearance of the couple in the photo. It's intriguing for me, as I too had a fairly strong initial reaction/impression of the couple. Mine though had nothing to do with white supremacy. My initial response was "aww...cute Rockabilly couple". My wife shared this impression.
B.
Great work as always. You have an artist's eye and a philosopher's soul.
Really interesting discussion, especially the parts touching on the appearance of the couple in the photo. It's intriguing for me, as I too had a fairly strong initial reaction/impression of the couple. Mine though had nothing to do with white supremacy. My initial response was "aww...cute Rockabilly couple". My wife shared this impression.
B.
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