When the SHTF, a rifle or shotgun in your hand?

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Shotgun for around the house, rifle for everything else. For $500 you can get both rifle and shotgun. The SKS is a good choice, ammo is readily available and so are parts and they are easy to work on. You can get one in excellent condition for less than $200. A used 12 gauge, such as an 870 or a Mossberg 500 and you'll still have money left for ammo. You can usually pick up a case of 1000 rounds for the sks for about $80 - $90.
 
While the shotgun is versatile, it's ammunition is heavy and bulky compared to good .223/7.62 detachable mag carbine.

I wouldn't recommend having either in your hand when the National Guard arrives.
 
I agree with the rifle only crowd. Can't beat either an SKS or AK-47 for rugged reliability in any condition. As has been said, shotguns are way too specialized, ammo is bulky, range is too limited, and a level II vest can stop buck shot cold. I have an AK and an M-4gery, and although the M4gery has never malfunctioned, the reputation for reliability in any condition goes to the AK or SKS.
 
Re-iterate the AK. I'd like to see someone carry 30 shotgun shells in one hand. And then load them in a hurry.

What I'd really recommend is mowing lawns, slinging burgers, or whatever to scrounge up an extra $200 and get an AR.
 
One huge factor that Dave Markowitz neglected to add, (In favor of the SKS,) is that the Yugo SKS is legal even here in Cali. With the bayonet.

I would much rather be able to use a high end AK with 30 round mags, or an AR, but the SKS is what Herr Lockyer and FeinStalin let us have.

For a sling, I intend to make myself one of these:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=344592

Notice how this is somewhat less noticeable? Obviously won't work quite as smooth with an SKS, but should draw a lot less NG attention.

1back.JPG


As for Rifle versus shotgun, if I have to bug out I doubt I will be doing it alone, so one of us gets the shotty and the other gets the SKS. One more reason to get my wife her own shotgun.
 
M-1 carbine if you can find a good one- availability is up and down a lot. Shoots like a .22, hits like a .357 (at least with soft or hollow point ammo), ammo's easy to get, and it doesn't look like an EBR, thus drawing less attention. Effective to 150-200 yards, and folding stocks are available. I got mine with 5 or 6 GI 15 round mags for under $200 before Clinton; I suspect it's getting harder to find but I don't know for sure.
 
I used to be a firm beleiver in the "assault shottie" idea, but having owned a saiga 12 for some time now, I firmly beleive that light recoil, intermediate cartdridge carbines are the way to go. Greater armor penetration, greater lethality, greater range and the ability to do this more times per weight of ammo are all factors.

I keep my shotgun and my pistols in the gun safe and an AK by my bed.
 
No offence, but in a SHTF senario, I doubt they are going to bug you for carrying a rifle as long as you are not thretening anyone. I would probably carry my rifle slung over my back or against my shoulder. One looks much less threatening that way.
 
Rifles

Having done quite a bit of tactical training with a shotgun I can say that I would much rather have a carbine. The shotgun is heavy, slow to follow up with, imprecise, slow to reload, and the ammo is bulky and heavy. Ammo transport is a big issue. Dump pouches and bandoliers are your two main options. Shells tumble from bandoliers all the time during movement, especially if they get damp. Dump pouches are not much better - you can only keep so many rounds in a dump pouch.

My personal carbine is an M4-type AR-15. It's a great rifle and common enough that I can probably always find ammo and spare mags for it if every reduced to foraging in an EOTWAWKI (hereinafter "N.O" or "Katrina") type situation. The SKS and AKs are good choices also. The major downside of the AK is it will likely provoke a conditioned response from battle-experienced Guardsmen. At the very least, they will think "bad guy" when they encounter you. Just a thought.

Whatever you get, buy some quality spare mags and some pouches to carry them. www.actiongear.com has periodic good deals on commie mag pouches. A cleaning kit is a must for a bugout, as is a decent sling. No need to spend $50 on a sling - you can make a good 3-point sling from instructions you'll find all over the internet - start with ar15.com. Oh, get a manual and a basic parts kit. Learn how to strip and reassemble your rifle BEFORE you get out in the world with it.
 
Crosshair
No offence, but in a SHTF senario, I doubt they are going to bug you for carrying a rifle as long as you are not thretening anyone. I would probably carry my rifle slung over my back or against my shoulder. One looks much less threatening that way.
Click to expand...

I hate to disagree with you but I think that would depend on the situation. I NOLA right now I don't think being seen with ANY weapon at this time is a good idea. At least if by "this time" we mean when the military units position themselve to quell looting and street violence. I can easily see an "aprehend and/or disarm" policy going into place down there. Martial law has been declared so that whole "rights" thing doesn't really count right now.

And as for the origional question, I'd vote rifle. I have several rifles and shotguns, all in a variety of configurations. For in house protection I've got a shotgun because I know my range is going to be under 30 yards, without question.

But for general purpose SHTF when I don't know the exact cercumstances I may face I'm going to have to vote for the rifle for all the reasons already given. Range, loading speed, accuracy, ammo volume. And here's one nobodies talked about yet. What if your 75 yards away and your intended target has non-hostiles near them? You can't use buckshot without fear of hitting an inoccent. I know the answers going to be slugs but as has been mentioned before, now you're just using a large bore rifle that kicks a lot.

I love how everyone talks about the "versatility of ammo" for the shotty. So if you're in NO right now what are you going to do? Keep slugs in your front pocket, 00 buck in your back pocket, field loads in your socks, and specialty ammo taped to your hat? And would you realistically plan on wandering around with 4 boxes of shells? Thats a lot of weight and only 100 rounds. I could fit 90 rounds for the AR into 3 mags in a single ammo pouch and another 30 in the weapon.

Now if the situation was general purpose subsistance hunting with self defense as a secondary concern then I think a shotgun is an exellent choice. But for a primary defensive weapon I'd go with a good rifle.
 
Smoothbores have advantages that go beyond merely comparing firearm capabilities.

I'd take a 12ga pump loaded with heavy buck and carry some slug loads in my pocket for stretching the range. And remember always be tidy and pick up your empties. ;)
 
epijunkie67

True, but I would have my gun to:

A: Get out of town and would probably be gone by now.
B: Sitting at home with "Looters will be shot." Spray painted on my house.

Again, roaming the streets, probably now a good idea at this point.
 
Combos anyone?

http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/rifle/izh94/
Click to expand...

The only drawback to most shotgun/rifle combos is the shotgun barrel's on top. If we reverse it, we now have the rifle and iron sights in line with long range aim. Furthermore, the shotgun barrel on top permits break action only, whereas, the same barrel on bottom allows more room for a feeder tube and pump action. I'm thinking the rifle would have to be a single shot bolt action.
 
WOW! I never knew. The master key is the mini length barrel shotgun with trigger ahead of the AR magazine. That's nice to know. If this concept could be used on other combos (along with longer shottie barrel to make things legal), this would be good for the SHTF'r. Thanks Zundfolge. :)
 
...surprise me how the shotgun capacity is an issue now but for a certain single stack weapon design I hear the relatively smaller capacity is not a disadvantage.. well :p
 
Either one, I'm not fussy. As long as the rifle is short and not too heavy. Something along the lines of an SKS or even a lever 30-30. In fact, I'd prefer the levergun as it can be kept topped off with ammo very easily (as can a pump shotgun). With an SKS or AK, you'd have to remove the mag to top it off unless you're packing extra mags around. I think they'd just get in the way. YMMV. :)
 
Personally I would go with a rifle (AR-15). My decision is based on:

1) Familiarity/Reliability
2) Weight
3) Weight of ammunition and how much I could carry.
4) Range. I could fire from a greater distance than a shotgun, and still be effective at closer ranges.
5) Rate of Fire.

-Shadizar
 
Call me stupid, but I'd take my AR. There are a few reasons.
1) People see it and are afraid of "the evil black gun".
2) You can reach out and touch somebody at a longer distance. I don't want people getting close. Shoot the leaders at a distance and the mob should break down
3) Already have one, and don't have a shotgun

Been thinking about getting a shotgun, but I'm undecided. I'm torn between that and getting an AK or an SKS for a "car gun"
 
remember he said under $500. pretty much limits it to ak, sks, other combloc weapons, shotgun, maybe a used mini.

fact is, i'm sure there are folks making good use of beat up 10/22s in NO right now.
 
An option I hadn't considered, but may be available, is the pistol-caliber carbine. Local gunshop has a Marlin Camp GUn in .45 (uses 1911 mags). Price is reasonable, $250. I also handled a Beretta 4xStorm, which would cost more, but give me mag compatibility to my Beretta 92FS. Any thoughts on this point? Anyone have info on the Beretta, or the Marlin for that matter?
 
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