where do I belong???

[crewsr]

If I have it right, a summery of the current situation:

The Democrat party will only get smaller as the liberal wing (the baby boom 60’s generation) continue to push it to the left and squeeze out any Truman-like moderates and blue dog Democrats. These voters will increase the size of the moderate GOPers.

The GOP will grow in size as a result; the Conservatives in the GOP will continue to feel like they are not being represented. Given the fact that they are the ones that win the elections for the GOP, will further the separation.

Is the GOP always going to be just the lesser of the two evils....always?

Examples of the above theories:

-Bush spends like a Democrat just to steal issues away from the Dems, in turn acting like a Dem in this regard. Bush is pro-growth on the economy just so he can pay for his big spending bills. This seems to be the current GOP strategy. And the same strategy of my GOP governor of Minnesota.

-Look at the voters in Ohio. The Conservatives are mad and did not show up to vote. The GOP guy barely won. The Dem are claiming victory. And the Conservatives are wondering if she will be just another Moderate GOPer.

-The GOP is going too far with the police powers of the patriot act. Sad name for this act by the way. More Govt seems to be the answer when the people do not seem care to deal with the problem.

-I see Dems and GOPers give national Conceal and carry rights to LEO’s when “we the people” should have had it first. “We” should be the standard. Then limited powers to the police. This thread is not anti cop but please give me a break to all of the LEO’s that really think they have less power than I do. Why do the current parties treat the armed citizen as second rate? Why do they hold more confidence and security in the Govt than “We the people”? Is this generation that week?


So where can the pro-individual Rights, less Govt American turn too? I like the LP party flat form but their view on drugs seems to be where all their energy is at, and that’s not for me (or my young family). The only other options are limited and not fun. To stay with the GOP and fight with the conservative GOPers against the McCain, Bush moderates or join the Constitutional party.

I don’t mind “all that religion talk”. I need to be a better Christian and maybe that’s one of the reasons why I love reading our first generations writings. Its funny how some even in this forum have the shakes and DT’s about talk of a God fearing party and cry out Theocracy. Where is the theocracy link in the Constitutional Party? The push for the separation of church and state is now to the level of separation of religion from society. I’m spending all my time looking at all the real, in my face, social break down than looking for problems that are not even close to being realistic and are at this point just shrieking babble. But the Constitutional party is new, untested, week in organizing, and I just don’t know enough about this party yet.

The power and respect of individual rights seems to be lost by both parties. The Courts only cement this problem. I still believe “we the people” can do anything cheaper and better that the Federal Govt. Look at the success of the Minutemen at the borders. Look at the private space programs and their wonderful 1960’s Apollo-like energy. Both cheaper and better.

So where does a Reagan-Conservative belong??

 

[Rebar]

I see Dems and GOPers give national Conceal and carry rights to LEO’s when “we the people” should have had it first.

The GOP have made real strides on the state level for "shall-issue" laws, so it's incorrect to lump them in with the Democrats, who have been fighting tooth and nail against any expansion of shall-issue laws.

So where can the pro-individual Rights, less Govt American turn too?

The republicans are the only real choice, the current crop of third parties are a joke. What you should consider, is getting involved in the local/state level republicans. This is where the next generation of national leaders come from, and where a lot of good solid conservative work is being done.

 

[Zundfolge]

www.rlc.org

The only hope we have is for liberty minded people to take back one of the parties ... the DNC is a complete loss so we need to focus our energies on the GOP.


If liberty minded folk can't retake the GOP then we're screwed.

 

[wingman]

So where does a Reagan-Conservative belong??

Good question as I feel the same, however my take on our two party
sytem is that wealthy corporations have basically bought them out, we,
meaning average Joe American really has no control on who wins what,
they put forth much effort to make us think we do.
Large business is selling America down the tubes taking money out
and not putting any back and sad fact is they don't care, short sighted and
greedy.
I don't see either party changing my only hope is a third
party for the people. Yeah, I know don't hold my breath.

 

[mercedesrules]

So where does a Reagan-Conservative belong??

With Reagan.

(Sowy - how could I resist?)

You are on a path to market anarchy/anarcho-capitalism. Why not just bypass all of the crap and go there directly?

 

[johnster999]

Stick with the GOP and do you best to make a difference. The alternative parties just really don't offer much of an alternative. Write the letters, vote in the primaries, and let your views be known within the Republican party.

Good luck and God bless.

999

 

[Gordon Fink]

To maintain a long-term share of power, the Republicans have to get with the bread and circuses and forget about abortion. Otherwise, as they and the Democrats continue to impoverish the nation, more folks will join the “party of the poor.” Currently, both the Republicans and Democrats are working to increase the base constituency of the Democratic Party—even if successful imperial adventures keep the Republicans in power for a few more decades.

~G. Fink

 

[Fletchette]

I agree with most of your summary.

The Dems will probably split - old Baby Boomers and Greens go off on a Magic Carpet Ride trying to create Lennon's (or is that Lenin's) imaginary utopia. The rest of the Dems will be creating one focus group after another to try to figure out what they believe.

However, the GOP has problems of it's own. It too, may face a split. There is considerable tension between moderate RINOs and the conservative base. Most of the base feel they have been short-changed. A Pat Robertson type could possibly make a real stink in the primaries.

There are also sub-groups that vote GOP out of conveinence, gun-owners are a classic example. This group would probably switch en masse if a conservative Democrat faced a RINO in an election. I think the Rove-types know this and are doing as little as possible to keep us from bolting. Hence S397, letting AWB expire, etc, but no real progress towards repealling gun laws.

Libertarians, which I am philosopihically the closest to, seem hopeless. Badnarik was actually a reasonable canidate, eloquint and presentable, but without a presentable party to back him.

At this point, when someone asks what party I belong to, I respond "NRA"

 

[jefnvk]

I have a feeling in my lifetime, the two party systm will collapse. It would not suprise me if 30, 40, 50 years down the road, either the GOP or the Dems (or both) end up splitting into smaller groups. I could see a conservative party, a liberal party, a moderate party, and other smaller parties on the far extremes.

And if the two party system is broken, it will be because of a split. It would take nothing short of a miracle for any of the third parties to become serious contenders.

 

[Gordon Fink]

The Dems will probably split—old Baby Boomers and Greens go off on a Magic Carpet Ride trying to create Lennon’s (or is that Lenin’s) imaginary utopia.…

As an aside, I know a lot of people love John Lennon’s “Imagine” for the peaceful, harmonious world its wistful lyrics describe. I love the song, too … because its creepy lyrics give me an eerie view of a homogeneous world lacking human individuality.

~G. Fink

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

I have a feeling in my lifetime, the two party systm will collapse. It would not suprise me if 30, 40, 50 years down the road, either the GOP or the Dems (or both) end up splitting into smaller groups.

Nope, smaller groups can't get reelected. That is all politicians care about.

 

[jefnvk]

Nope, smaller groups can't get reelected. That is all politicians care about.

On the other hand, groups that are constantly engaged in fightin others in the party, to make policy, don't have a good shot either.

 

[Fletchette]

What happens, at least in the past, is that a party splinters into several smaller groups that recombine under a new name. Often both parties undergo this change at the same time.

Looking into my crystal ball, I can see the Dems imploding and leaving the GOP in power for a short while. Then the GOP splits (RINOs vs. base). The old GOP Base picks up elements from the splintered Dems and re-names itself. The GOP will now be the left-leaning party of the two (not counting all the small "third parties".

 

[crewsr]

Fletchette I pretty much agree with you that at this point. Although I am not a one-issue voter I look at whom the NRA likes very seriously.
The problem is, if I stay in the GOP to fight for the Conservative base, with writing and funding...all of which I have done in the past...I feel they will look the other way when the GOP wins again. I'm tried of "carrying the water" for this party when all they do is spend spend spend. the 9-11 response that my GOPers give me is not enough. I'm looking for a little just a little creativity like the minuteman patrols. The 2nd Amendment is a perfect homeland security tool but this is not being talked about within the parties. And I do not want other big Govt answers like more security cameras and more Federal agents looking at "we the people". Mr. President if you think we are at war then how about helping us educate the teens on what the Bill of Rights are and show them how to shoot. It will teach them discipline, respect and focus. I need a good grassroots place to throw my energy at.

 

[Fletchette]

Crewsr,

I understand where you are coming from. One possible solution that will stick a thorn in the side of GOP strategists is to form a society within the GOP. The "Log Cabin" Republicans are the source of much contention because they are in direct conflict with much of the GOP base (please note that I am not personally condoning nor attacking this group - that is a completely different issue than the Second Amendment).

I do think, however, that gun-owners could use much the same tactics. A GOP sub-group, the "Patrick Henry" Republicans that refuse to submit to any gun control, would be a strong deterrent to GOP compromising on the issue.

The Minutemen are in essence a sub-group.

One can argue that this is the start of the splintering of th GOP, but that is the implied threat.

 

[wdlsguy]

Write the letters, vote in the primaries, and let your views be known within the Republican party.

I write my letters, and vote in the Republican primary elections, but if a RINO wins a primary election, I do not reward him/her with my vote in the general election. I vote third party at that point.

 

[Standing Wolf]

So where does a Reagan-Conservative belong??

http://www.lp.org

 

[ceetee]

Speaking as a man of no party affiliation (and it says so, right on my voter's registration card), I'd like to know how Republicans can still align themselves with "Neo-Conservative" politicians that only pay lip-service (if that) to actual Conservative values. Reagan and both Bush's billed themselves as being for fiscal responsibility, smaller government, less government intrusion into our lives, more honesty, more integrity...

All failed to hold themselves to these ideals.

How can a Republican who actually does honor these values, still vote for people like these in good conscience? I'd actually like to see good, honest, hardworking Conservatives rise up and disown the rascals like Rove and Delay, and clean them out of the party. Then it might be a party I'd consider joining.

 

[wingman]

How can a Republican who actually does honor these values, still vote for people like these in good conscience? I'd actually like to see good, honest, hardworking Conservatives rise up and disown the rascals like Rove and Delay, and clean them out of the party. Then it might be a party I'd consider joining.

Long time republican voter but I agree with you, I found it very tough to
vote last election for sure we need some changes, too bad it comes down
to "who can do the least harm" vote.

 

[Rebar]

How can a Republican who actually does honor these values, still vote for people like these in good conscience?

Because something is better than nothing.

Because it's better to have a majority in both houses, even if there's some neo-cons, then to be ideologically pure, but in the minority. In the minority - we get nothing, no good judges, no liability reform, no AWB expiration. Nothing.

 

[cracked butt]

old Baby Boomers and Greens go off on a Magic Carpet Ride trying to create Lennon's (or is that Lenin's) imaginary utopia

That is the best line I read all day. I always thought that it was more than a coincidence that Lennon sounds exactly like Lenin. LOL.

 

[Fletchette]

I'd like to know how Republicans can still align themselves with "Neo-Conservative" politicians that only pay lip-service (if that) to actual Conservative values.

With great difficulty and a box of antacids. Before the last election AR15.com had a poll that went somthing like this:

When you go to the polls what will you do?

a) Throw your vote away on Badnarik but be able to sleep at night

b) Hold you nose and vote for Bush

c) Vote for Kerry to kick start the coming revolution!

 

[Gifted]

The lesser of two evils is still evil.

I might vote mainstream in the Federal elections coming up. But in local elections, I'm Libertarian, unless someone is looking very promising. Focus on the big change in the local arena. If you have the support of the local and state .govs, the feds can do less, becuase it'll be just them trying to mess things up.

 

[stevelyn]

I find it AMAZING and completely devoid of logic that most folks here notice the two-peas-in-a-pod party no longer represents them, YET they still advocate voting for one of the offending parties.

How many times are you gonna get kicked in the head by the business-as-usual parties before you learn and look to a real solution?

The Libertarians or any other pro-rights third party isn't going to win if you don't leave your comfort zone and vote for them. :banghead:

Who cares what someone smokes in the privacy of their own home?? I don't. I think the War on (some) Drugs is wrong, and profit driven for both sides. The LP also seems to think so.

If the policy fails, just keep doing it until we get a different result.......yeah that'll work.

 

[Rebar]

I find it AMAZING and completely devoid of logic that most folks here notice the two-peas-in-a-pod party no longer represents them, YET they still advocate voting for one of the offending parties.

I don't accept your premise. There are real and, for gun owners, very consequential differences between the republicans and Democrats.

The Libertarians or any other pro-rights third party isn't going to win if you don't leave your comfort zone and vote for them.

It has nothing to do with a "comfort zone". It's up to them to run good candidates and good campaigns and earn our votes, not for us to validate their incompetence and stupid strategies.

Face it, the libertarians have had 30 years to make an impact, and in all that time they've only gotten a tiny handful of state rep seats, and not even one state senator. Most of the serious people left long ago, all that's left are the hard-core loonys, and they aren't going to be the ones to pull the party into something that can win anything important.

A libertarian vote is a democratic vote, a democratic vote is a vote to take your guns. I know how I'm voting.