Where do people get these goofy ideas?

[cratti]

I was talking to an older gentleman today who was convinced that .22LR was the greatest HD/anti-personnel cartridge ever, insisting that the bullet would enter the body and ricochet indefinitely, claiming that "a shot to the stomach might ricochet so much that it comes out your shoulder."
I get at least one idiot a week who is convinced that the .22 is designed to ricochet inside a human body.

Logic would dictate that the .22, a rather weak, light bullet, would have fairly limited penetration upon striking a target, and the soft lead bullet would deform quickly upon striking something hard enough to cause a ricochet, thus increasing the speed at which it decelerates.

Then again, the same guy in question was referring to his 10/22 as the "best sniper rifle money can buy."

 

[Mags]

I often hear the same about the 223 round don't know if it is true or not and don't care. I am more a fan of shot placement.

 

[cratti]

No, the .223 round is designed to "tumble" as well as ricochet. Apparently they think civilian .223 rifle bullets are identical to military 5.56x45 ammo.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't know about that but I do know of a 40gr. solid .22 lr entering a canvas shoe directly on top of the big toe going around the bone and exiting directly underneath. This is a FACT, I SAW it myself.

 

[Ron James]

That's the first I've heard of the 22 bouncing around in the body, but never under rate the .22LR. I have seen a number of cases where the bullets have gone through the human body and was never recovered. The .22 will also deflect off bone and wind up in funny places quite a distance away from where it entered the body. Because of the small mass of the lead bullet it will have more of a tendency to do than a 9MM or 38. BTW. in Michigan the favorite gun for the Jack Lighters ( poachers ) is the .22 ( low noise ) and also in Florida the poachers use the .22 on gators.

 

[BruceRDucer]

/
As anyone with a bit of sense knows, the large mass of a .22, would empower it to travel through a car door, enter the stomach, ricochet off two Rolaids and a Chili and Cracker Lunch, embark upon a tumble which bounces it back and forth between ribs, upper arm bones, and a ball point pen, until it loses momentum finally, coming to rest in some old gentleman's brain, where it takes on an ethereal form, emerging as an Idea.

Whaddya mean Goofy Ideas? Are you narrow minded er whut?

/

Ohhhh! Wait a minute! You wrote about a .22LR round. That means LOW RECOIL.

Well sure, if you wanna be technical and all about it, the Low Recoil .22 won't have much power....but that's an extreme idea, goofy in its own right. [Pass the Chips and the Sour Cream, willya? Heh! Heh!]

/

/

 

[Acera]

Talk to Ronald Reagan about what a little .22 can do when it gets inside you.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

All I know is I don't want to be shot with one to find out. I agree with Acera President Reagan almost died from a lowly 22 LR.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Apparently they think civilian .223 rifle bullets are identical to military 5.56x45 ammo.

depends on whether you buy milspec bullets.

i have many times. in fact, ive bought demilled lc before. many times.

generally the real deal will tumble, and frag due to side loading.

 

[cratti]

Acera and Deltaboy - That was a chest shot that punctured his left lung and narrowly missed his heart. Completely different from the phenomenon people are discussing. It'd be a little bit more relevant if, say, he got shot in the shoulder, the bullet punctured his lung, and a few days later passed with a loud "clink!" into the toilet...

FlyinBryan - you said it. "The Real Deal."
Not Remington Cor-Lokt or UMC

 

[FlyinBryan]

a little soft .22 can really throw a wrench in the works of your bodily functions.

are others better?

silly question.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Not Remington Cor-Lokt or UMC

true.

 

[cratti]

Bryan - As another poster said, "Shot placement..."
A high powered pellet gun could "throw a wrench into the works of your bodily functions," under ideal circumstances.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Shot placement is important with any caliber.

i could survive a 50 cal without proper placement.

ive already said bigger calibers are better stoppers. what do you want? me to say a 22lr tickles? ok it tickles.

 

[Acera]

cratti, but if you remember the bullet did bounce off something before it hit the president. Not trying to get too technical, while it is not a magic bullet, it can do a lot of damage.

 

[dirt_j00]

I've also heard the ".22LRs ricochet inside your body" line. In fact, it was used to support .22LR over 9mm for SD...

I really can't see how any round could "ricochet" that much inside a body. I mean, sure, it may deflect around bones, but ricochet?

 

[Oyeboten]

The older Gentleman has the .22 LR confused with the 6.5 x 52 mm Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle with a six-round magazine and bearing
Serial number C2766, when using
Western Cartridge Co. ammunition with a 160 grain (10.37 g) round nose bullet, with poorly mounted, loose, and non-zeroed
Side-mounted Ordnance Optics of a 4 x 18 telescopic sight...and only when fired rapidly out a high window by a certain "A. Hidell".


Such a Bullet can in fact Zig-Zag, go 'in' and change direction, perforate Bone, viscera and Car Seats, reverse direction, write it's name in the air, pause in mid air, turn and go up, then turn and down, mysteriously shedding lead and copper-jacket debris while remaining perfectly intact, and doing all sorts of things, including ending up on a 'stretcher' for a little nap, looking as well rested and perfect as if it'd been fired into Water...


No .22 lr could ever hope to emulate these fetes...

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Yeah Oyeboten but that bullet was blessed by Castro(and Krushev).

 

[geronimo509]

I was under the impression that a .22 used to be a lot of hitmen's bullet of choice. It's quiet and with a silencer it's very quiet. Also, it has enough power to enter a mans head but not enough to exit and would bounce around, or ricochet, inside someones head. And that would leave little mess.

I could very well be wrong, but no one else ever heard that?

 

[Dirtpile]

A 5.56 can end up a fair distance away from the entry point in the body if it tumbles like it's supposed to.

However the record goes to the lowly .22LR where the bullet is small enough to be carried downstream after entering a major blood vessel.

 

[SleazyRider]

Rimshot to the head ...

Saw a .22 shot to the head that entered above the eye, circumnavigated the skull just beneath the skin, and exited out the rear. Amazing, really.

 

[Ranb]

I was under the impression that a .22 used to be a lot of hitmen's bullet of choice. It's quiet and with a silencer it's very quiet.

Your impression is wrong. A 22lr pistol like the P-22 is about 160 decibels, this is loud. A good silencer will reduce this noise by a great deal, but it will still be at least 115 decibels, not quiet at all. Take a look here. http://silencertalk.com/results.htm

Ranb

 

[Zoogster]

The .22LR is actualy known to do exactly what is described in the OP.

It is not designed to do that, and it does not reliably do that. It does do that regularly enough to be very unpredictable.

The .22LR enters the body and easily penetrates soft tissue, but due to low mass and momentum along with a hard jacket is often deflected by bone. This results in totaly random results. People have had it enter thier torso, bounce around and exit thier neck.
I have seen instances of them enter a head at an angle, get deflected by the bone and go around the head underneath the skin before exiting without ever entering the brain arcing around thier head. At the same time when one does get in the brain they are known to richochet around in the skull unable to penetrate back out.
People have been hit in the leg and had them travel along the femor into the torso before bouncing around.
They do not penetrate bones well, especialy after losing a portion of thier energy, but ususaly penetrate soft tissue fine and that results in such erratic injuries.

Many similar wild and unpredictable examples exist. You can look up actual medical incidents of many similar events.
In fact I just saw one on the news the other day that traveled along someone's lower spine before exiting out of thier face and they were shot in the torso at a regular angle.

That does not make it a good self defense round. It is small, entirely unpredictable, and even when it does something like richochet and damage internal organs in a lethal way it does not reliably stop the threat. It kills them minutes or hours later.
Someone can place a very good shot, and have that good shot deflected away by bone into a much less critical area of the target. So just as it can be unpredictably dangerous it can be unpredictably ineffective even with well placed shots.
Would you want to rely on random luck or skill in stopping a threat? It is a horrible self defense round, but the richocheting multiple times internaly mentioned by the individual is quite real.

 

[moewadle]

Geronimo509 I read

that also. That is what happened to Robert Kennedy. He was shot in the head with a .22 LR and the bullet shattered inside his brain and ruined it of course with fragments of bullet.

 

[Zoogster]

Your impression is wrong. A 22lr pistol like the P-22 is about 160 decibels, this is loud. A good silencer will reduce this noise by a great deal, but it will still be at least 115 decibels, not quiet at all. Take a look here.

There is numerous types of "silencers". Many are designed to give acceptable results from an acceptable dimensioned item. They can also give much better results from a larger device.
The .22lr can become virtualy silent because it is one of the easiest rounds to silence. The very small bore opening combined with the very low pressure and total air mass results in the ability to contain virtualy all escaping gas in a practical size silencer. The only remaining noise is the sonic crack if the round breaks the sound barrier. Sub-sonic rounds do not.
So they can be as quiet as the action of the firearm.

Most rounds cannot be silenced so effectively from a practical size silencer, but the .22lr with sub-sonic rounds is one that can be.
This is due to the low total volume of air being moved and the small bore opening. If the majority of the air is retained inside the device until its pressure drops significantly and is then released or released gradualy the muzzle blast is gone. This would be unpractical with most other calibers requiring a massive silencer.

(Silencer is also as good a name as suppressor because the guy that invented the device when he also invented the car muffler called them silencers. So the inventor named them "silencer".)