Where do people get these goofy ideas?

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I was under the impression that a .22 used to be a lot of hitmen's bullet of choice. It's quiet and with a silencer it's very quiet. Also, it has enough power to enter a mans head but not enough to exit and would bounce around, or ricochet, inside someones head. And that would leave little mess.

I could very well be wrong, but no one else ever heard that?

As stated by Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli in My Blue Heaven:

Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead.

:D
 
The .22lr can become virtualy silent because it is one of the easiest rounds to silence. So they can be as quiet as the action of the firearm.

I have heard 22lr firearms with good silencers, they are not virtually silent. I was very impressed with how much the noise was reduced, but they certainly should not appear to be virtually silent to anyone without advanced hearing loss.

According to Al Paulson, the author of Silencer History and Performance, even the little 10/22 action can be as loud as 100 decibels. Since the muzzle noise is about two feet from the shooter's ear, and the bolt is clacking only a few inches away, the muzzle noise will sound less loud than the bolt.

Ranb
 
Like folks who are afraid to go near a handgun, like its gonna just shoot off a round by itself. That's one I have to laugh at.
 
I have heard 22lr firearms with good silencers, they are not virtually silent. I was very impressed with how much the noise was reduced, but they certainly should not appear to be virtually silent to anyone without advanced hearing loss.

As I said there is many types of silencers, but the .22lr can be virtualy silent because of the properties I mentioned earlier. Most production silencers are designed to be practical, working well for a relatively high volume of rounds while being of a practical size. And retaining longevity in the US (because they are NFA items and consumers want thier expensive taxed and registered product to last, in some nations they have disposable ones.) They do not maximize the potential to supress.
Some designs can be virtualy silent however. Not all supressed firearms are cycling semi-autos either. A bolt action firearm can be very quiet because the action is not cycling. Some suppressed semi-auto pistols and carbines have also been designed to allow the bolt/slide to be locked closed so it will not cycle or even move between shots, requiring manual cycling. This allows it to be even quieter. Some do it with a switch others strange things like a multi-stage trigger.
With an extensive multistage suppressor you can actualy achieve Hollywood like suppression (without the goofy sound) which is unrealistic with most calibers.

A decent example of suppression even with a high volume of rounds is the MP5SD with its integral supressor. Not virtualy silent with the 9mm round, but with a .22LR that type of design can be extremely quiet for the volume of rounds. Being essentialy a pistol barrel ballisticly but a full length carbine with most of the length devoted to internal suppression.

Most calibers cannot achieve Hollywood levels of suppression from a realisticly sized silencer, but the .22LR is an exception to that. The cycling of the action can become the loudest part of the process. On designs that allow the action to be kept from cycling they are even quieter, with the noise of the round striking the target the loudest sound of all. The only actual sound from the firearm being the firing pin striking the round.

The most effective silencers also tend to be the most maintenance intensive, and effective for the lowest number of shots and with close tolerances quickly lost from wear. So not practical or ideal for casual shooting. Multiple stages, wipes that wear out, often "wet" requiring refilling with oil or water between a very limited numbers of shots, sometimes with low durability and little longevity while ususaly larger in size than ideal. The most effective possible designs also are integral as that allows the firearm to be designed completely airtight with things like rubber gaskets.
Think of designs similar to the Welrod, but of higher quality and chambered in .22lr, sealed internaly at both ends.
Chambers and containers that capture compressed gases vented to them through one way air valves, never releasing them like a standard supressor can even be incorporated in a design, vhastly exceeding any traditional silencer. No pressurized gas even escapes.
Certainly not what someone spending hundreds on an NFA toy for plinking would enjoy. The gain in suppression would not be worth the loss in simplicity, durability and other areas to the consumer, and as a result such designs are not seen on the market. Who would spend hundreds of dollars for a few dozen suppressed shots between complete rebuilds or required venting of the device? Or enjoy an integraly suppressed firearm with gaskets and wipes that change dimensions and wear out after a limited number of rounds? And with integraly suppressed firearms having the greatest potential, consider there is very few on the market with most consumers purchasing a seperate "can".
All these factors lead to most people with NFA registered suppressors possessing devices that are not maximized for absolute suppression at the expense of other qualities.
They are not all that exists however.
 
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No, the .223 round is designed to "tumble" as well as ricochet.

You have got to show me the design plans that stipulate such things, especially the ricochet part. I would love to see what design features makes said bullets uniquely better at ricocheting.

I really can't see how any round could "ricochet" that much inside a body. I mean, sure, it may deflect around bones, but ricochet?
What do you think ricochet means? A projectile hitting a surface and deflecting is a ricochet. It is rebounding off that surface.
 
Also heard a story about a gas station clerk that was robbed at gunpoint. The clerk simaltaniously kneeled down and put his hands on his head. While the perp accidently fired a shot aimed at the his head. The shot ricocheted of the clerks wedding ring and he was completely fine.
 
Well I'll add my 302...

I former neighbor of mine found out his estranged wife was moving to California with his 2 kids. He went to her apt with his 22, shot her in the leg, and shot a guy who was helping her move. That guy died from the bullet puncturing his aorta. That was in 1991 and the shooter is now out of prison on supervised work release. He was charged with 2nd degree murder whist in the process of commiting spousal abuse, or something like that.

Maybe he thought he would "teach someone a lesson" with just a 22, I don't know. Every once in a while I'd get a letter from him talking about prison life. Of course all incoming and outgoing mail was censored.

He should have listened to Johnny Cash: "Don't take your guns to town."
 
o much for the anecdotes- anyone have any actual, you know- data? This thread sounds like a bunch of kids at a campfire in summer camp.
 
SS109 5.56mm Ammo out of the current M4 (M16) is designed to tumble on impact with body flesh. It can and does create an erratic wound channel that can often get to a diameter of 1.375" due to the tumble and with over 5.0" overall wound channel with 7" of travel in flesh. This is not a myth, nor battlefield legend. It is how it was designed. This can be found in various sources, but the best I have seen is the FM ( and DM manuals from Pic Arsenal, amazing studies into small design changes that cause different affects and effects.

Silencers are not silent, they only serve to suppress the noticable to most human noise from a sub-sonic bullet. The sub-sonic only comes into play in flight so that the (breaking the sound barrier "Clap" will not be heard.)

A .22 is the preferred weapon..... most of the time either a Hi-Standard, Ruger or Beretta semi auto. Most have a action lock for single shot. It will be a smithed in hook or block to the bolt or slide. I personally have a beretta Mod 21a in .22lr that has a vintage .22cal SIONICS Suppressor on it. It will reduce the db to about 63 which is bel;ow the average ambient sound around you of 72. I usually lock the slide and cycle the action by hand (I had to invent and install an extractor and slide lock on this beretta).

It is quieter than my C02 Walther (crossman) PPK pistol. It is highly accurate with 60grain Aguillia sub sonic rounds due to the heavy bullet weight.

The Sionics works by cooling the gasses of the shot round before it leaves the muzzle, therefore it normallizes to the outside of the barrel temperature and thus NO crack from hot gases hitting ambient air.

The larger suppressors work well on .223 and .308 and .220/.222. They are usually called "Cans," in that size and can bring the noticable sound down to about 103db and with a sub-errant round, the T-clap is kind of thrown else where and not from where the shot came from.

MOST revolvers cannot be supressed due to the gap between the cylinder and barrel. I know of three specially designed revolvers made to use a built in suppressor, 2 are UK and one is Russian and all are WWII era. They are just impratical.

NOW... where do people get bad info, usually made up or from reading 1/5 of an article on some subject and usually from no real life first person experience.

FBI Crime Stats, Report to Congressional Task Force on Crime, 1998 - .22 (Lr, mag & short) account for more accidental and purposful deaths than any other caliber in the USA. They state the reason are ease of accquiring .22 firearms and ammo (even home made 22's are easy to make), ease of carry and the inherient usual poor workmanship of cheap imported .22's that will cause accidental discharge.

The 2nd most prolific accidental and purposful round is various forms of 9mm (9mm para, 9x18, 9mm Luger, 9mm Largo etc). .various forms of .38 (spl, 357 mag, 38 super, 38 auto etc) is in third place. Shotguns of all ga are in 4th.

Have a great day

Mike
 
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Meh. I wouldn't bet on a .22 bullet doing any of the crazy crap people says it does.
I'll stick with my .88 Magnum. Who needs quiet when you can shoot through schools?
 
Cratti you seem to underrate the 22LR and the older gentleman seems prone to exaggeration in his statements that you recount about the effects of the 22LR. That's okay. We all have our opinions.

I don't want to get shot by that little bitty 40 gr bullet and I don't think President Reagen wanted to either. I would feel the same fear regardless of whether I was armed with a Ruger 10/22 or 500 S&W when a home invader comes a-knocking. I would be willing to bet the outcome would be exactly the same. I say, do whatever you are more confident with and don't worry about what the "experts" preach.
 
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I'm not "underrating" it. I'm just questioning its ability to ricochet extensively inside a body. Not its effectiveness when it ricochets before hitting a target. And definitely not comparing it to a .223.
 
Not picking on ya Cratti. Many feel exactly the same. I think the term "extensively" is the kicker. I'm told the 22 bullet can do some unexpected things inside the human body and I think it may well glance off some hard parts depending on the impact angle. But "extensively", probably not and certainly any comparisons to a .223 is sort of like apples and oranges from my point of view.
 
By that rationale, don't unexpected things happen with EVERY cartridge? That makes the .22 just as remarkable as the rest. And if they're all pretty much equal, that makes it unremarkable...
 
41022collector said:
It can and does create an erratic wound channel

Not in my experience. In my experience, they generally pinhole straight through. Do you have a specific source you can share? I can't begin to guess what FM you're referencing.
 
@ Geronimo

According to the book "Vengeance" (George Jonas), the handgun of choice of the Israeli counter-terrorist team that took out many of those responsible for the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre was the Baretta .22. They used bombs also.

Fascinating read, by the way. I recommend it.
 
@ Geronimo

According to the book "Vengeance" (George Jonas), the weapon of choice of the Israeli counter-terrorist team that took out many of those responsible for the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre was the Baretta .22.

Fascinating read, by the way.
 
What do you think ricochet means? A projectile hitting a surface and deflecting is a ricochet. It is rebounding off that surface.

I know what a ricochet is. I said:
I really can't see how any round could "ricochet" that much inside a body

I have added emphasis to help clarify my statement.

I thought the OP was speaking in regards to a .22LR:
-Ricocheting multiple times inside a human body, or
-Ricocheting to such an extent that it comes to rest or exits the body well away from the entry point.
 
@ Geronimo

According to the book "Vengeance" (George Jonas), the handgun of choice for the Israeli counter-terrorist team that took out many of those responsible for the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre was a Beretta .22. They were highly trained and fired point-blank however.
They eventually gravitated towards using explosives, as they were after the shock (terror) value themselves.

Fascinating book, I recommend it.

Other than this bit of trivia, I'm staying out of this argument!
 
A book on forensic pathology contained an anecdote about a person shot in the chest with a .22; the bullet was found in the leg. What had actually happened was, as described in the book, was that the .22 had penetrated into a major artery and traveled with the blood flow til it reached an artery smaller than .22 inch in the leg. That did not stop op-eds promoting gun bans from claiming the bullet ricocheted from the chest to the leg. The bullet penetrated a few inches of flesh, then entered the circulatory system, which could have pumped the tiny bullet anywhere.

Autopsies of head shots with .22 shows (a) straight through penetration in and out; (b) penetration of one side, through the brain, stopped on opposite side of skull; (c) penetration of one side, path through skull, bounce off opposite side and one path of richochet; (d) penetration of skull at an angle so the bullet goes inside the skull following curvature until it stops; (e) bullet stopped on entry by combination of low power and thick skull.

Stories of .22 bullets ricocheting endlessly about the body or inside the skull are grossly exaggerated. Even ardent anti-gunner Robert Sherrill noted in The Saturday Night Special (1975) if the killer-diller .22 short RG10 (cheap snubnose imported revolver of the 1960s) was as fearsome a weapon as built up in the op-eds of the 1960s, why didn't any military outfit use the Saturday Night Special?
 
OK, real world here. About 10 years ago the fire dept. I was a member of was called for for an attempted suicide. When we got there we found a fellow who had shot himself under the chin with a .22 rifle. He had an entry wound under his chin and an exit wound on the very back of his head near the base of his skull, there was very little bleeding and he was alert & conscious. It appeared to be a through and through shot, somehow missing the brainpan. After a more thorough exam (and the opportunity to see the bruising start to shape up) we found that the bullet had entered below his chin, followed his jawline around to the back of his head and exited the skin.
This is the only .22 shot I have seen while working in EMS. I have seen what little is left of the head after a fellow removed the rest with a 12 guage in his mouth. I've seen a foot partially blown off by fellow resting a shotgun muzzle on his boot. Said his dog pulled the trigger lol.
 
a shot to the stomach might ricochet so much that it comes out your shoulder."


Maybe not to that extent but a 22 will bounce off bone and heavy muscle. You haven't seen many autopsy reports. I've heard surgeons experienced in treating gunshot wounds say they have to do more damage to remove the bullet than the bullet did in the first place. Frank serpico still has 22 bullet fragments in his head.
 
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