BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
No .223 carbine for me. Between my M1A Scout and my Benelli, I guess I'd grab the Benelli
As I recall the original tests were FBI, and they aren't selling anything. Yes many more have been done by those companies but the results are pretty consistent with each other and other independent tests- doesn't sound like doctored and falsified results to me.Most of the people that have conducted such tests have been people who are selling .223 carbines
Well, Glockten, I'd agree that those make wonderful home defense weapons, but I don't think they are quite as good as either a .223 or a 12ga. Even in a long-gun they won't have the stopping power of the shotgun or real rifle round and some of these pistol rounds (.357 and .44mag for instance) have real overpenatration issues out of a handgun, add a foot or more to the barrel length and get the resulting velocity increases and well... In the auto calibers the longer barrel gives no stopping power advantage (velocities seem very close to handgun velocities) but there still are the other long gun advantages (accuracy under stress).There's another option: a semi-auto or lever rifle in a handgun caliber.
Oracle, I think you are probably right, and I'll probably switch from one to the other and switch camps once or twice a year because the advantages of one v. the other are so close.I think that it's pretty much 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.
Good point. It is a bad idea to bring out a gun to try to intimidate (potential legal issues if you didn't quite need deadly force, and if you do need deadly force and you hesitate because you are hoping they'll stop you might get killed). However, if just taking out the gun does stop the threat and they have a movement in their pants all the better. The 12ga would have a bigger psychological effect than just about anything (what caliber would 12ga translate to, about .70 or so?).and the psychological effect of having to stare down the barrel of a 12 gauge. No matter how dangerous an AR15 is, you are still just looking down the barrel of an over glorified .22.
Well, there are a few issues here. First, as already mentioned, this is with one specific type of ammo and at very long ranges. At shorter ranges the .223/5.56 can put a man down quite fast. As a general use military round the 5.56 is somewhat controverial and there are arguements both ways, for police or self defense use (urban use) the .223/5.56 is very effective.a .223 carbine as a perfect home defense gun. It is a rifle caliber so it has a lot of knockdown power.
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This is highly debateable. I've read reports that our military guys have to shoot guys 3 or 4 times to get them to drop. Consider carefully...
Another very good point considering that both, with proper ammo selection (i.e. birdshot or maybe very lightweight buck for the shotgun), have virtually no overpenatration problems.Seriously, though, I don't understand why there is any debate over over-penetration between these two weapon types...
The overpenatration I'm more worried about is the likelihood that it might go through walls and into other people after going through the body of the invader.
Um, like I said in the post you responded to, if you miss it doesn't really matter what you are using since even .22lr will go through wall board, insulation and aluminum siding. If a round powerful enough to drop a person (including shotgun buck and bird shot) misses it will go through most construction materials used today (except brick, maybe). The only way to prevent penatration through walls if you miss is to set up backstops behind likely and preplanned fields of fire (lots of books and magazines are useful for this).So you've never considered the possibility that you might miss?
but when it's time to strike decisively at distance, make ours DSA'a SA-58 carbines (.308), for we are focused only on terminating a threat, not wounding. . .
(I like to keep the first round in my Mossberg rubber buck. Looks better in court that you used a "non-lethal" round first).