billymac
Member
XD...
which polymer pistol would you pick and why....
- Thread starter jhb
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CZ57
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XDm!
sugerwater
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
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- 91
hate to sound like a broken record, but i go with the g19. I collect alot of differant hand guns and the glock is my aways go to, ccw or hd.
Comedian
Member
Depends, the glock is arguably more versatile in that you can buy a drop in match trigger, match barrel, and long slide. If you don't plan on buying a lot of aftermarket bits and the magazine prices don't bother you I'd say go with the HK. In my opinion, the new p30 and HK45 grips are currently unmatched for ergonomics. I don't mind the finger grooves on the glock gen 3, but they don't come close to the HK.
armoredman
Member
Out of all those choices ONLY, I'd go with the Smith. If you can add one more this is my poly pick.
Olde School
Member
Reliable, accurate enough for defensive carry, simple and easy to disassemble and clean, will feed anything I put into the magazine and resonably priced....... Glock 19.
RancidSumo
Member
The GEN 4 problems are well documented in the 9mm versions. You can still get GEN 3 at every gun store I've been too.
For me, this decision would be all about safety. IMO, there's where the Glock loses out.
This isn't too big a deal if the gun is always in a holster, but for guns that might be carried in a pocket (cargo pants, winter jacket, fanny pack, etc...) I'm just not comfortable with a gun that goes off with a very light trigger pull. A long DA pull or "cocked and locked" is safe, IMO. Glocks, I'm sorry, but they just scare me! Its a hair trigger! I know, I know, you have to pull the trigger and you shouldn't do this, yadda yadda. But they don't call them "accidents" for nothing. A DA pull is long enough that its very unlikely to happen accidentally. A good "cocked and locked" safety requires a deliberate unlocking before you have that hair trigger. The other guns you mention would meet my requirements, but the glock, I'd never feel comfortable with it in my pocket. In a serpa type holster, sure. But not loose in a pocket.
Before glock fans flame me, I have a Glock 22 and I absolutely love it to death. I think its a durable, accurate gun with a lotta firepower at a low price. A full size Glock is a must in any "complete" gun collection.
This isn't too big a deal if the gun is always in a holster, but for guns that might be carried in a pocket (cargo pants, winter jacket, fanny pack, etc...) I'm just not comfortable with a gun that goes off with a very light trigger pull. A long DA pull or "cocked and locked" is safe, IMO. Glocks, I'm sorry, but they just scare me! Its a hair trigger! I know, I know, you have to pull the trigger and you shouldn't do this, yadda yadda. But they don't call them "accidents" for nothing. A DA pull is long enough that its very unlikely to happen accidentally. A good "cocked and locked" safety requires a deliberate unlocking before you have that hair trigger. The other guns you mention would meet my requirements, but the glock, I'd never feel comfortable with it in my pocket. In a serpa type holster, sure. But not loose in a pocket.
Before glock fans flame me, I have a Glock 22 and I absolutely love it to death. I think its a durable, accurate gun with a lotta firepower at a low price. A full size Glock is a must in any "complete" gun collection.
RancidSumo
Member
Glocks have a trigger that is far from what I would call a "hair trigger". Don't carry it like an idiot and it wont be a problem. I actually took the TS off my M&P because I didn't need it.
What I mean by "hair trigger" is a fairly short trigger pull.
This is my problem with Glock's "Safe Action": let's say HYPOTHETICALLY, a loaded gun is on a kitchen table and there are several people in the house that are inexperienced with handguns, including children. If you were watching this on a video, which gun would make you wince most:
a glock with a round in the chamber
a 1911 cocked and locked
a DA/SA SW with a round in the chamber, but the drophammer safety in "safe" position
a DA revolver fully loaded
The gun MOST LIKELY to cause an accident in the above scenario is unquestionabley the glock. It would require the least amount of energy to fire. All the other options require either multiple steps before firing, or require a fair amount more effort to fire.
Again, this isn't about safe gun handling techniques. We all know them, yet some of us will still experience an accidental discharge at some point in our lives. They don't call them "accidents" for nothing! There is no arguing this point, in the above scenario, the glock is the easiest to pick up and fire.
RancidSumo
Member
Don't be an idiot and leave a loaded pistol in the kitchen full of people that don't know jack about guns. That scenario is completely irrelevant and avoidable so why even consider it?
Its about safety, and how much you value it. Sure, if you have 100% faith in your unwavering abilities and peerless skillset, then you can certainly avoid a lot of safety-related inconvenience. But for some, a layer of safety is appreciated and welcome.
Again, they don't call them "accidents" for nothing.
RancidSumo
Member
And they don't call it negligent for nothing either...
I'm hoping you're knocking on wood as you type these replies.
RancidSumo
Member
Whatever, I'm done with you. You might as well put trigger locks on all your guns if you are leaving them in a room full of morons. In fact better yet, if you are that negligent, you shouldn't own guns at all.
Geez, I didn't mean to make you stomp off and pout about it. Sorry!
Carbonator
Member
"...the glock. It would require the least amount of energy to fire. All the other options require either multiple steps before firing, or require a fair amount more effort to fire." -0to60
This is why I choose Glock and recommended it to the original poster. For me "no safety" is a positive, not a negative. I said the same thing as you did in an earlier post but from a different perspective - "no safety" is the #1 reason why I choose Glock. External safeties have their place I suppose, but they can prevent firing when needed, they can switch on/off during carry/altercation, and they can lead to the owner being overly confident or negligent like leaving it in unsafe places just because "the safety is on".
This is why I choose Glock and recommended it to the original poster. For me "no safety" is a positive, not a negative. I said the same thing as you did in an earlier post but from a different perspective - "no safety" is the #1 reason why I choose Glock. External safeties have their place I suppose, but they can prevent firing when needed, they can switch on/off during carry/altercation, and they can lead to the owner being overly confident or negligent like leaving it in unsafe places just because "the safety is on".
OP
OP
jhb
Member
guys, i appreciate all the responses and thoughts....please though take it easy on each other. i appreciate different opinions and i hope everyone else does as well....i didn't want to create any disagreements with my questions and posts. of course it's not my place to say shake hands and let's move on, but i hope this is exactly what will happen?
anyways, all these various opinions and firsthand insight have me even reconsidering each choice all over again. which i appreciate, as this was exactly what i wanted, to not impulse buy but carefully consider each option very carefully and logically. i want to thank everyone. i am still undecided....but that doesn't mean your posts were wastes in fact the exact opposite, extremely helpful for me anyways...so i appeciate the help. thank you, Sirs to each and every poster.
anyways, all these various opinions and firsthand insight have me even reconsidering each choice all over again. which i appreciate, as this was exactly what i wanted, to not impulse buy but carefully consider each option very carefully and logically. i want to thank everyone. i am still undecided....but that doesn't mean your posts were wastes in fact the exact opposite, extremely helpful for me anyways...so i appeciate the help. thank you, Sirs to each and every poster.
ForumSurfer
Member
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I stopped thinking of negligent discharges as accidents. Accidents are unexpected. If you leave a loaded weapon on a table around untrained people in your house, the round going off is hardly unexpected.
That's why when you carry, your mindset has to be appropriate. I don't show anything to anyone or leave it lying around. It is in my holster or put away. When I'm home alone or with my family, it is put away at arm's length. My children are old enough to quote the 4 rules of safety (or they don't get to go shooting with me). I feel more comfortable handing my 8 or 12 year old a loaded weapon than I do most adults.
I'm just saying that it helped me to stop thinking of them as accidents. Accidents are mechanical failures like chambering a round and it going off without pulling the trigger due to a mechanical failure.. It is similar to a car wreck, there are few accidents. 9 out of 10 times they are a series of negligent mistakes that lead up to a predictable and probable result. When toyota's experienced failures and the throttles were hanging, it was an accident (although arguably negligence from the manufacturer's POV).
Safety has to be on your mind constantly if you carry or keep a firearm handy for self defense. It is what it is.
It was a bad example.
I'm not saying external safeties are there to prevent a roomful of people from shooting themselves, I'm simply trying to say that the proability of an accident is higher when there are no external safeties. In a high risk situation, an external safety can offer an added measure of protection against the unexpected. There can be no arguing this point.
Maybe a better example would be a physical altercation where someone gets your gun away from you. A long DA pull or "cocked and locked" might give you a few extra moments. This happens in the law enforcement world often enough that new solutions are constantly being sought.
This is all I'm saying. I'm not saying an external safety lets you abandon all precaution. You're reading me wrong. I'm saying that sometimes things don't go according to plan, and its those times that external safeties come in handy.
25cschaefer
Member
I have an HK USP compact in 40 cal, trigger variant 3, I have shot several thousand rounds through it in all weather condition with every ammo I could get my hands on from 120gr frangible to 180gr +p and I have never had a malfunction of any kind. The trigger variant is double action for the first shot and single action after that with a decocker, no safety. Therefore it is as safe as a double action revolver and the trigger pull is a deliberate 7lbs double and crisp 4 single. It shoots great and carries better. HK is my choice.
reagan2005
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
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- 12
yeah def hk usp compact
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