Which Progressive Press is "best for me"?

[grubbylabs]

I am not sure where the complaints on the Hornady priming system are coming from but I know that my new press took about 30 minutes to set up and it has been perfect since then.

I did take the time to polish every thing with some 400 and 600 grit paper.

I polished the sub plate and the groove that the retainer spring rides in as well. I put a little unique case lube on the bottom of my shell plates and then go for broke. It seems to function just fine and without any issues.

the only thing I am kicking my self over is trimming the bracket that holds the catch bin for the completed rounds. I have my press mounted on a piece of steel and it was twisting the bracket so that it pointed the catch bin upwards, I should have left it, now some of my rounds jump out of the bin because it points down now.:banghead:

Just called Hornady and paid my stupid tax, so I should have a new bracket by the end of next week.

 

[mstreddy]

OP, another LNL user chiming in. As some have mentioned, if you are comparing the Dillon to the Hornady then you have to base it on the 650, not the 550. 5 stations and autoindexing.
As a LNL user for about 2 years now, I can tell you that it does work very well. The priming system is pretty good and I do prime on the press. The one thing, which I understand afflicts the Dillon as well, is that you have to keep it clean.
I load mostly pistol calibers on it (in order of qty), 9, 45ACP, 38 spcl, 40, 380, 38 Super, and some 357 mag. Unlike some others here, I do run the pistol rounds completely on the press. Start with fired brass and out exits a finished round.
For rifle I'm loading 223, and 300 Blackout on it and will load 308 soon.
For my pistol calibers I change my dies, (have the commonly used ones in their own bushings), change the shell plate and adjust the powder measure. I don't have the PTX tubes yet, but will be making my own based on Cfullgraf's design specs, so the powder adjustment includes the height and powder drop. You can buy the PTX, and/or the base and make the changes even quicker.
The priming system is fairly easy to change from small to large - or in your case, you can load all Small primed 45s and not even have to switch. I've done that with a batch of those small primed 45s.
I do have a separate powder measure for rifle powders instead of switching the rotors.
The LNL system comes with the powder measure, case activated system, and 5 bushings. The bullet rebate is a good deal too.
I just exchanged/upgraded my old Hornady ProJector to the LNL AP under Hornady exchange program -- sent in the old press kit/system, $200 bucks and the new LNL is coming today. Thanks Grubby for the info!
So, I will be among the ranks of those with 2 LNLs on the bench.
As to pricing on caliber switching on the LNL -- Midway prices
Assuming you start with 9 and go to 45 then 223
bushings - 10 @ $42
9mm (#8) shellplate $23
45ACP (#45) shellplate $39
223 (#16) shellplate $23
PTX 451 $11
PTX 355 $11
PTX linkage $8

You could have your other powder measure set for rifle and use it for the 223.
Lastly, I'll tell you that once I went to the progressive for the pistol rounds it's been a great change for me. I have the press ready with whatever caliber I've been loading and I can come in, load up some primers, and run 50 to 100 rounds quickly and not have to be there for an hour or 2. I don't go for speed, but I can comfortably load around 300 rounds in an hour from start to finish.

Which ever color you decide to go with, there is a wealth of knowledge here to help you iron out any quirks or tweaks with your new press.

Eddy

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Especially in this market...Do you get to pick which bullets or how does that work?

The press came with an order form to choose the bullets I wanted. The list was very long....Back when I got my press Hornady gave you 1K. Now, I think it is 500.

I choose .45 caliber XTP JHP. I never have opened them. I figure I could sell the bullets and recoup half of what I paid for the press.

 

[Nordeste]

No, it isn't. A 550B runs $440. The Hornady LnL can be had for $399, and you get 500 free bullets - which could drop the net cost by another $100.

The LnL give you auto-indexing, a 5th station, the ability to add a case feeder later on for ALL calibers... it's a better deal.

Well, you're right, and I'm right. Here at the other side of the pond, you get a 550 for 420€, a L n L AP for 480€, and a 650 for 580€. I was logged in a Spanish firearms forum and here at the same time, and forgot what side of the pond I was .

 

[whughett]

Owning a Dillon 550 for the past three decades or so and loading upteen thousand pistol round on same I can say that what ever Dillon one buys, Square Deal to 1050, a person is buyin a system that will last a life time. I have worn out most if not all the moving parts on mine and Dillion has repaired replaced all for the mere cost of one way freight. Call them up obtain a return number ship it off and in short order it come back good as new. Uses standard 7/8 14 dies (except Square Deal) found used at any gun show, and for a modest investment one can have a tool head/powder measur for evey caliber one shoots. pistol or Rifle, except Square Deal.

Quality and life time warranties cost more, Lee products are cheap for a reason. (Not knocking Lee, one gets what one pays for)

Also have Lyman Turret press, also old as the hills, also built like a tank.

 

[Rule3]

I do not understand the need for more than 4 stations. Most die sets are three maybe 4 if you have a separate crimp??

I also do not want to be locked into the ABS priming system (I guess RCBS has that)?

Bottom line between them is the easiest, least expensive caliber changes.

As to warranties I believe they all are as good as Dillion. RCBS is no BS I have only had a few small things with Hornady and they replaced the items.

I also do not understand paying this kind of money and having to tune or fluff and buff some features? I have done no modifications to the Lee turret and it's cranked out lots of ammo of many many calibers.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I don't have a thing against the Dillon 550, except for it only gives you 4 stations, and is a manual advance progressive.

Heck, I'd rather have 6 stations, 7's even better.

I have to say that's a good point. I have found myself seeking another press in the near future and I require 5 stations before consideration. With a four station I can either De-prime and resize in different stations and sacrifice the change to use a FCD or forgo the de-prime and re-size separately to be able to use the FCD by itself for crimp.

Comes in real handy when loading rounds that need a FCD for better crimping IMO.

 

[jmorris]

There is no "best", I think I have 10 progressives here now and they are not all the same. Some are better in some areas than others.

I can tell you an easy way to pick one though, what is the dollar amount you are willing to spend completely set up?

That will narrow the field a lot. You don't always get what you pay for but you always pay for what you get.

 

[wlkjr]

I can't make an objective suggestion as I bought a used Dillon 650 as my first reloading venture. Caliber conversions are a bit pricey but I only load 4 pistol calibers, so I just bite the bullet and plunk down what it takes. It does seem to be a good setup and I wouldn't be interested in changing to another brand. After changing from large primer to small a few times, I can do it pretty quickly now that I'm familiar with the process.
I almost bought a used Hornady LNL Ammo Plant but the guy was almost at new prices. I got the Dillon from a guy who sold everything, lock, stock and barrel.
Good luck with your choice. Only you know what's in your budget.

 

[GW Staar]

I do not understand the need for more than 4 stations. Most die sets are three maybe 4 if you have a separate crimp??

I also do not want to be locked into the ABS priming system (I guess RCBS has that)?

Bottom line between them is the easiest, least expensive caliber changes.

As to warranties I believe they all are as good as Dillion. RCBS is no BS I have only had a few small things with Hornady and they replaced the items.

I also do not understand paying this kind of money and having to tune or fluff and buff some features? I have done no modifications to the Lee turret and it's cranked out lots of ammo of many many calibers.

Sure, but on the Turret you are doing one round at a time. On a progressive, a lot happens at once. Lee progressives are not near that easy to keep working. There are videos galore with tips on how to make Pro 1000's and Loadmasters work longer, so you don't unbolt them and throw them across the room. The other 3 brands are better at keeping you happy during long reloading sessions, but the only press where they spent the money to make it closest to bullet proof was the Dillon 1050.....and even at that they forget the lifetime warranty and call it a commercial press.

The required tuning and fluffing is part of it, unless you want to pay for the 1050, but it is very minor stuff with the H, R, and D's. I've never had to do any "buffing" though...I just added features I didn't want to pay a lot of money for. Most RCBS users don't feel the need.

As for the APS primer system.....shucks, that's the very feature that pushed me over the edge when I was trying to decide between the 650 and the Pro 2000....that and the way faster caliber changes.....and the ability to be happy with one or two powder measures, not 10. Also keep in mind that the RCBS is a heavy duty cast-iron rig. All the rest are aluminum....excepting the Dillon 1050 of course. But different strokes (pun intended ) for different folks!

Bottom line? I don't doubt that whichever one you decide on, Blue, Red, or Green, you will soon champion it all over the forums. and that's just fine!

 

[3GunEric]

Been using Dillon 550b for years- best company support on earth. Not cheap but you get what you pay for.

 

[Rule3]

A friend has the RCBS, yes it is built like a vault. I bought some APS primers as they are all I could get at the time. I just pop them out with a wood dowel. It looks like neat system but then I would have to load the strips (no big deal really) as i gather you have to load tubes on the others.

No way am I considering a LEE progressive. The Lee Turret it fine, good even but to many horror stories on the Progressives.

 

[cfullgraf]

I do not understand the need for more than 4 stations. Most die sets are three maybe 4 if you have a separate crimp??

I also do not want to be locked into the ABS priming system (I guess RCBS has that)?

Bottom line between them is the easiest, least expensive caliber changes.

Many folks have some kind of powder cop or powder check die, actually located in station 3 but it is the "fifth" die.

Other folks prefer to check the powder level visually. I do both depending on cartridge I am loading and press I am using.

There are other features that not everyone uses but still requires the fifth station.

I never have more than four stations populated on my 5 station progressives, but that is because I do not resize and reload at the same time.

The RCBS Pro2000 comes with an APS strip loader so that you can use primers other than CCI. Strips are available without primers and they are reusable. Takes about the same time to load 100 primers in strips as it does to fill a primer tube. Of course, if you use the pre-loaded strips, big time savings.

You can do cartridge changes on the cheap or do it expensively on any of the presses. The trade off is time. If you look at comparable components that have to be changed, the price of cartridge changes are probably similar between the different press brands. Dillon offers having a powder measure for each cartridge but it is not necessary if you are willing to reset the powder measure at a cartridge change. The powder measure makes the Dillon change expensive. Also, if you have a case feeder and/or bullet feeder, that adds to the cost as well.

A big expense of a cartridge change is the die set required for the next cartridge. No getting around that cost.

Of course, you could do what I did with my Dillon SDBs, I load two different cartridges on the SDBs and I have dedicated presses for each. Just unbolt one and bolt the other in place. Cartridges changes do not get much easier.

 

[BYJO4]

I also think the Hornady is a great progressive. I have 2 of them and have never had a problem with priming nor did I have to polish any parts to make them work. If you follow the set up instructions closely, you should not have any problems. While I have spare parts as a precaution, I have not broken any part (including the case retaining spring) with 30,000 plus rounds loaded on each of them.

 

[GaryL]

Since so many have chimed in, I may as well add my nickel, which isn't really worth quite 2 cents anyway.

I have a 550, and I've never found 4 stations to be a limitation. Only use 3 on half the calibers I load anyway, and that takes care of deprime, resize, charge, seating, and crimp. I do like crimping separately in station 4, and do that on the other half. A powder cop would be nice, but since I set up with lights and mirrors, every charge gets checked before a bullet is placed, so that hasn't been an issue either.

As far as manual advance goes, that to me is a huge advantage. I like being able to operate in single stage mode sometimes. Also makes it easy to check and adjust powder throws, bullet seating (sometimes switch bullets in the middle of a session), etc. Yes, one must be careful of squibs and doubles, but little or no powder is pretty obvious when you look in every case, especially when a double either makes it impossible to place a bullet or makes a mess. So the risk of a mess is incentive to use the buttons to remove cases in progress until ready to resume.

Having said all that, if I had the funds, I'd probably get a LNL for the added flavor, but it would be dedicated to either 9mm or 45acp. And it would also get the powder cop. And a larger bench. After I win the lottery....

 

[jmorris]

I do not understand the need for more than 4 stations.

It depends on what you want out of the press. The 1050 has 8 stations and it is still not enough to process and load at the same time, for brass that needs trimming.

It does bring a few things other features to the table than other machines, like a priming system that you positively set the depth of, a station that swages and uniforms primer pockets along with the powder check station, case feed and the usual 4.

 

[savanahsdad]

A friend has the RCBS, yes it is built like a vault. I bought some APS primers as they are all I could get at the time. I just pop them out with a wood dowel. It looks like neat system but then I would have to load the strips (no big deal really) as i gather you have to load tubes on the others.

No way am I considering a LEE progressive. The Lee Turret it fine, good even but to many horror stories on the Progressives.

I was going to ask why you are not considering the lee LoadMaster , , I now see it is do to the horror STORIES ,, I know a guy that has been loading on one since 1989 , he only loads 9mm and has no other presses and did no loading before he got his LoadMaster I think he was 21 years old when he got it , he read the instructions, and did what it said , and it works just fine , No horror STORIES !
I've had my Lee LoadMaster for 7 or 8 years now , I loaded on a single stage for 7 years before that I now load 44mag , 357mag, 45acp, 9mm, 38spl, and 380auto all on a LoadMaster, primer change over takes seconds , case feed takes a bit longer if you need to switch from tall cases to short cases ,
and as for all those fix-it videos on web ... I don't get it !. I watch some of them and could not figure out why or what for , it seem to me that the low cost of the Lee stuff attracts the guys that use a screw-driver for a pry bar , or a vice-grip where they should have used a wrench and some of those videos you can see the whole bench rocking back and forth . if they would have read the instructions they would have read "bolt press to a solid surface" I even saw one brain-surgeon peen out the case ejector plate to make it longer , first , not needed, second if it were needed hammering on it is not what I'd do ,
any way the stories are just that " STORIES " that and the low cost seems to attract the low IQ players to the table , here is my fix "READ THE INSTRUCTIONS"

of the presses you are looking at I'd say go with the Hornady I know a new-bee that is running one, so far so good , I'd get another lee but it sound like you spent enough on lee , time to give some to Hornady

 

[Hondo 60]

What about a 2nd hand progressive?

I bought a Dillon RL550B 2nd hand.
It cost me $150 with a set of dies & 1 caliber conversion.
(sold the dies & conversion, & bought ones I needed).

That was 10 toolheads & 7 conversion kits ago.
Dillon is VERY expensive, but waaayyyyy better than the Lee progressives.
(I had a Pro 1000 & got so frustrated that I boxed it back up, sold it & went back to a single stage)
I don't think I ever got a whole box of ammo made without having to stop, tear it apart & fix something.

With the Dillon, while not perfect, it's RARE to have to stop & fix something.

 

[shoebox56]

The RCBS Pro2000 comes with an APS strip loader so that you can use primers other than CCI. Strips are available without primers and they are reusable. Takes about the same time to load 100 primers in strips as it does to fill a primer tube. Of course, if you use the pre-loaded strips, big time savings.

+1

I've been using the APS strips on my APS Bench Priming Tool for my single stage handloading. It had a big influence on me purchasing the Pro2000. Loading up the reloadable strips with any brand primer is pretty fast with the tool Strip Loader Tool (comes with Pro2000). It takes getting use to, but as long as you follow the directions, really no issue at all. The more you use it, the faster you get.

Quite possibly the safest system out there, if you pop one primer, you won't have a full blown explosion of all the primers.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

http://www.idpa.com/blog/post/2012/04/30/53-Handload-2011-IDPA-World-Shoot-Ammo-By-The-Numbers.aspx

 

[GW Staar]

Ah! Now we can all rest. The famous IDPA pie chart.

In my first post I said:

Here's the thing: Dillons are super duper for what they are made for....to make IPSC and IDPA shooters very happy.....set up the competition caliber and load like hell. But you can change calibers on a Pro 2000, including primer size, in the time it takes a Dillon 650 owner to change primer size. Changing primer size on my press takes 8 seconds without practice. I often load two calibers in one evening session, and sometimes three.

The O.P. was interested in quick caliber changes and several calibers.....IDPA competitors mostly load one....over and over. Having a Dillon became a rite of passage into that fraternity 10 years before there was other serious progressives. They're great presses, and the chart represents every model, SDB's, 450's, 550's, 650's, and of course 1050's. I doubt the 4% numbers includes much before Pro 2000's and AP's.

I'm amazed about the 4 percent who use Hornady and RCBS.....brave pioneers they are! And a standing ovation for the Lee 3% group. Savanahsdad has a point....especially if it is set up for one caliber and has a user serious about maintenance, and yes, serious about following directions.

 

[Tom488]

Ah! Now we can all rest. The famous IDPA pie chart

Makes me think of this:

 

[KansasSasquatch]

I do not understand the need for more than 4 stations. Most die sets are three maybe 4 if you have a separate crimp??

I also do not want to be locked into the ABS priming system (I guess RCBS has that)?

Bottom line between them is the easiest, least expensive caliber changes.

As to warranties I believe they all are as good as Dillion. RCBS is no BS I have only had a few small things with Hornady and they replaced the items.

I also do not understand paying this kind of money and having to tune or fluff and buff some features? I have done no modifications to the Lee turret and it's cranked out lots of ammo of many many calibers.

1. Size/deprime
1.5. Prime
2. Expand
3. Drop powder
4. Seat bullet
5. Crimp
or
1. Size/deprime
1.5. Prime
2. Expand and drop powder
3. RCBS Lockout Die
4. Seat bullet
5. Crimp
or
1. Size/deprime
1.5. Prime
2. Expand
3. Drop powder
4. Powder COP/Lockout Die
5. Seat/crimp
or
1. Size/deprime
1.5. Prime
2. Expand/drop powder
3. Lockout Die or Powder COP
4. Bullet feeder die
5. Seat/crimp

I'm pretty sure I could come up with a couple more combinations, but you probably get the idea by now. It really depends on how progressive/automated you want to get.

I own a Hornady LNLAP. For me it came down to Hornady or RCBS as the 650 was out of my price range and I didn't want a 550. With the RCBS I actually liked the APS primer strips. You can buy preloaded strips and reuse them and from the videos I've seen, it certainly looks quicker to load up 100 primers in the strips than it is to "stab" 100 primers with a primer tube. It's also easier to pull an APS strip out of the RCBS than it is to empty a primer tube on a Hornady or Dillon (for the occasion that you run out of brass or bullets before primers).

The things I didn't like about the RCBS, and the reasons why I ended up with a Hornady:
1. With the RCBS you have to mess with the dies more (or buy a separate die plate, same as with Dillon) if you only want to resize bottleneck brass, then tumble it, trim it, then run it through again to prime/powder/bullet. With the LNL its very quick to only put the sizing die in and leave the others out. It's especially nice if you like to resize all of your brass before storing it like I try to do.
2. No factory case feeder. I've read that some people have rigged up case feeders for the the Pro 2000 but there's no factory option for people who can't/don't want to fabricate their own.
3. The press itself costs more than the Hornady and the RCBS bullet feeder is also more expensive than the Hornady. I'm sure the RCBS being cast iron is a good reason for that, but you're in Dillon 650 territory for the price of a Pro 2000 w/ auto indexing. The non- auto-indexing is ~$70 cheaper, but if you don't want auto indexing you might as well go 550 and save even more money.
4. The powder measure on a Pro 2000 is "stuck" in station 3 unless you want to remove it from the die plate between caliber changes.
5. I just like how quickly I can take a single die out if I'm having a problem with it, say my seating die is gummed up with boolit lube, and put it back in. No risk of pulling the die plate out and messing up setting on other dies, no messing with lock rings, just pull out the problem die.
6. The Pro 2000 rotates counter-clockwise. IT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!!!

 

[Nom de Forum]

Ah! Now we can all rest. The famous IDPA pie chart.

In my first post I said:


The O.P. was interested in quick caliber changes and several calibers.....IDPA competitors mostly load one....over and over. Having a Dillon became a rite of passage into that fraternity 10 years before there was other serious progressives. They're great presses, and the chart represents every model, SDB's, 450's, 550's, 650's, and of course 1050's. I doubt the 4% numbers includes much before Pro 2000's and AP's.

I'm amazed about the 4 percent who use Hornady and RCBS.....brave pioneers they are! And a standing ovation for the Lee 3% group. Savanahsdad has a point....especially if it is set up for one caliber and has a user serious about maintenance, and yes, serious about following directions.

You left my RL300 off your list of every Dillon model. It is ancient but reliable. I agree no press is all things to everyone.

 

[Khaot1c]

10 years ago I picked up a Lee turret press to see if reloading is something I would enjoy. A few calibers later I finally got into reloading rifle. Then I started shooting more which lead to more reloading. Then I realized I actually enjoyed reloading.
This year I finally moved into a progressive press. Actually, a Semi progressive. A Dillon 550. I talked with a few buddies who reload, a local gun shop (Hornady and Lee dealer), watched a few seasons worth of YouTube videos and started saving money. When I had enough put together I picked up a Dillon RL550B with the strongmount, bullet tray, the case bins and the tools/holder. End result: I'm happy.

The 550 has been a great tool so far. My output has increased and it still feels 'safe'. It's easy to change calibers and it there isn't much that can break in the process - that's very important to a clumsy person like me. I feel my ammo is still just as reliable and accurate. Perhaps even more so....

I used the" which press is for you" chart at Dillon and Brian Eno's FAQ pages to ultimately rule out the 650 as an option. My Lee still has a place. I put the full length resize rifle dies and a universal decapper on a turret and use the Lee to help me do case prep. The lee's are inexpensive enough that selling it would mean going so low on the price that it just wouldn't really offset the price of a new press by very much. So, I kept it.

Nobody is going to pressure you into a sale though some people selling used equipment may tempt you. You have all the time you need to make a decision. In the end, no matter what you get will make you happy and you'll still say "WHAT IF". I stilll wonder if a Hornady LNL Progressive would be 'all that'. But, I'm happy with mine, just as most of the other people here are happy with theirs. I'm confident you'll be happy with yours.

The bench needs to be stress and worry free. Hoping our press isn't the weak link in the ammo production chain isn't the thought process we need to have when dealing with explosives