Who carries handcuffs?

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don't carry them but if a free man or woman wishes to carry them, a flashlight or a tin of sardines who are you to tell them no?
CT
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To me it is immaterial whether they are not trained in doing it or are a cop wannabe. The concept of intimidating someone into ceasing an attack is what I focused on. Even then I'm not forbidding them to do so. I'm just telling them their basic concept is logically flawed.

No different than telling someone that their CZ-602ZKK in .458 Winchester Magnum will not serve them well when they go squirell hunting. Not if the purpose is meat for the pot.
 
When I was on probation (long story, ask me sometime) I had to mind the store but couldn't legally keep or use a gun. I kept a big old bottle of pepper spray and a pair of cuffs, figuring that the stategy for defeding the store would be along the lines of spray, beat down, and cuff until the police arrive.

In that case, I have four CCTV tapes to back me up in anything I say went on around the counter area and elsewhere in the store, so I figured it was the best option.

Now they're sitting at the bottom of my knife drawer. Ain't used 'em since my term was up, and unless really pressed I don't imagine I ever will. I got pretty proficient with those things through practice, though.
 
The question is how to deal with someone who you think will attack you but don't deserve to be drawned down on? This could be two bums approaching you in a park as you exit your car or a fellow in a hooded sweatshirt with hands in pockets and giving off a "bad vibe."
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Most has been touched on, but here are my thoughts on some good ideas in this situation:
1-distance
2-a cell phone
3-a good pocket tactical flashlight (I carry the Surefire E2D, for just such an occasion)
4-some quality martial arts/self defense training
 
I'm with you on the Surefire! I have a G2 and I've made a couple of dogs back off by blasting them in the face with that thing. The G2 is glass filled nylon, though - cheap, but not good for using as a hittin' tool if you have to.
 
If you are going to quote me don't edit it....

"The LEO's say that it's too complicated for non-LEO's to handle...."

I then went on to say have the perp cuff themselves, if they won't and charge well it's their body. and I'm so suprised it's not like TV or the Movies, that is a big shock to me, I'd never have guessed:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
CT

Quote I referenced-

"Not too complicated.
When you close in with your adversary is when it gets very dangerous. If you haven't trained how to apply cuffs quickly and correctly all you've done is give the subject a weapon who can hurt you quickly before you can respond and placed yourself within immediate reach. It's not like TV or the movies."
 
And you really think the BG is going to cuff himself when you throw him a set of cuffs? Maybe in Fairyland World or TV. :rolleyes:
 
If the BG is obeying the order to remain on the ground at the time I have a weapon on him why wouldn't he cuff himself? CT

I understand after reading your posts you seem to be a LEO -that explains about your attitude for
non-LEO'S. I'm hopeful that LEO's by and large don't think non-LEO'S are all idiots who can't be trained and need to be talked down to. Oh and sorry, never been to "fairyland" how is it there? ;)
CT
 
Most cuffs, (S&W, peerless, etc.) will not fit around a grown mans ankle, so forget that one.

I have cuffs at home, and if needed would use them(no pervert jokes please), but having spent the better part of my life on the job, but that would be a rare circumstance indeed!

Best left to the pros, cuffing someone without backup is dangerous, and showing them to intimidate is in my opinion, asking for trouble.
 
Central Texas,

First, you might want to read the original post carefully. The poster is looking for something to pull out when he would not be justified in drawing a gun. A very different scenario from what you are describing.

Second, a handgun is not a magic wand, some people will refuse to comply. While it is easy to imagine that the suspect will meekly Submit or make a suicidal charge, real noncompliant behavior is rarely that simple. There are people with lots of valuable experiance telling you what they have learned using handcuffs on a daily basis. Don't let preconceptions get in the way of listening to what works.
 
"If the BG is obeying the order to remain on the ground at the time I have a weapon on him why wouldn't he cuff himself? CT"

You really think he'll comply? For your sake I hope he does. Unfortunately, BG's will have a different idea. Just hope he doesn't hurt you.


"I understand after reading your posts you seem to be a LEO -that explains about your attitude for non-LEO'S."

35+ yrs as a LEO. If your profile is correct I was cuffing and stuffing BGs not long after you were just born.
I have no problem with non-LEOs, just non-LEOs who don't have a grasp of reality but live in a make believe world of what they think will happen.


"I'm hopeful that LEO's by and large don't think non-LEO'S are all idiots who can't be trained and need to be talked down to."

Never said non-LEOs can't be trained. I've trained a lot of former non-LEOs to be LEOs.
So who is going to train you? How often are you going to train? How do you know you'll be getting good quality training? But more importantly, how often are you going to be doing it for real?
It's not like TV, movies, or what you imagine sitting on your couch dreaming about running out there with the BGs. If you aren't trained, and don't receive continual training and practice, you'll be toast. That's just the hard cold facts of life. BTDT, trained a lot of folks, arrested some of really bad characters who sure didn't want to be cuffed and sure as heck weren't going to cuff themselves just because I would have thrown the cuffs to them.
So in your make believe world, what are you going to do with BG who is sitting on the ground and tells you to stuff your cuffs where the sun doesn't shine? What are you going to do if BG just decides to get up and walk away? Shoot him?
 
Grasshopper, have a seat.

There are only two types of people in this world who should carry cuffs: law enforcement officers, and nubile redhead ladies with interesting tastes.

For the average American, carrying handcuffs will make you look like a freak, and you'll be unable to conjure a rational argument in support of your decision.

You do not wish to even give the impression that you are impersonating a police officer. I hear the same rational at times concerning carrying a 'CCW Badge' in a semi-visible place. Protective camoflague. No, it is a distraction from practicing avoidance and de-escalation.

If you find yourself in a situation where you have an alleged bad guy proned in front of you, you want to be as far from him as possible. Do not approach. Your primary tactical advantage is the ability to project lethal force from a distance. Why give up that advantage when you are alone and without backup?

Even if you have backup, do you trust them to provide proper cover? Can he make the shot without hitting you, too? Are they willing to risk charges? How will it sound to the DA when you say: "Mikey shot the guy because the guy resisted my attempts to handcuff him."

Lots of potential problems. Just keep your distance, keep them covered, and call 911. If they attempt to leave, let them, unless the circumstances are extreme.

Most importantly: obtain competent legal advice. Nothing you read here should be construed as legal or actionable. We might all be insane labrador retrievers imitating people on the Internet.
 
I can't think of any good reason to carry cuffs with you on the street (and, in the perception of many, could mark you with possible criminal intent.) Best to avoid.

Now, saying that, this thread has inspired me to get a few sets of plastic flex-cuffs to keep at home in case of someone invading my home. However, I've also had training on their use and wouldn't even THINK of applying them unless I had said invader subdued, disarmed, and I had someone else covering me. Even then, I'd be more likely to kneecap them than cuff them to keep them from escaping... :evil:

Unless you're trained & have backup, cuffs are bad news... :cool:
 
I understand after reading your posts you seem to be a LEO -that explains about your attitude for
non-LEO'S.
Click to expand...

Some of the other posters have explained why carrying handcuffs is a really bad idea, unless you plan to use them.

Respecfully, you seem to think that everyone is jumping on your case. We are not--it is a small dose of reality. The most dangerous part of any apprehension or arrest is the split second before the cuffs go on. When that cuff case opens with a snap, the guy being arrested is doused with the reality that his liberty is about to be taken away, at least for a while.

Suppose you are walking out of a business, see what you believe is a BG approaching you, flash those cuffs and manage to do it right next to homey, who is slinging biscuits and slabs and is in the process of getting paid for some good rocks?

They think that the po-lice are about to put them in lockup, so instead of taking that walk, they're going to strap up and get their cap on.

(And, no disrespect intended in the least, but if you live in a bad area of town and you cannot decipher what I just wrote, you REALLY have NO business even looking remotely like a cop.)

Any person who is in police work will tell you that at the end of the day--and while off duty--the LAST thing they want to do is to be identified as a police officer.

Me? While I'm not in uniform, you'll see me in a pair of somewhat ragged coveralls (old military issue), or maybe a pair of jeans and a somewhat well-worn jacket. Running shoes sometimes, work boots on occasion.

Yes, I do carry the equipment I mentioned earlier--you'd be surprised how well you can hide stuff when you're not carrying them in the expected places.

But the point is this--I do NOT want ANYONE to even think that I am a police officer, have anything to do with law enforcement, or even go near a police station when I'm off duty.

Then, there's the legal questions that arise which are many and diverse. They're quite lengthly and somewhat tedious, and cover things like unlawful detention, false arrest, unlawful imprisonment and kidnapping (yes, I said kidnapping).

Bottom line? Leave the handcuffs at home, guy. The single most important piece of equipment you can carry is a cell phone.

And do everything you can NOT to get into any situation where you might have to get physical or use your CCW.
 
I own handcuffs, hinged double loacking, but they stay where they belong and I don't carry them. Periodically, I slips them into the back pocket, when answering the door at late hours, as a just in case (peace of mind thing???) but aside from some last ditch effort, I don't forsee actually using them. The goal is to get away from the bad guy, not tango with him more than is absolutely necesary.
 
"too complicated"

The LEO's say that it's too complicated for non-LEO's to handle....
The rest bash as "Oh, you are a cop wanna be"
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No, cuffs are pretty easy to apply to a compliant subject. It's when you get up close to that guy who gets off on the sight of blood and he looks at that spot on your ankle where it says "Apply Mayhem Here" and takes you down like a sick three year-old that it gets dangerous.

I've worn dress black and a band over my shield a few times because of handcuffings gone wrong. You don't want my advice? Go right ahead and risk your life.
 
Cuffed wrist to ankle?

Try that sometime, buddy. Unless you are cuffing a professional jockey, your cuffs will not fit around a man's ankle. The ASP cuffs might fit on the first or second tooth (they don't fit my ankle-just tried 'em) if you have a normal-sized person. It's a fantasy that you are going to get any crook to shackle himself. Otherwise, all of us LEOs would be doing it every day.

As far as the original scenario of some scary homeless guy asking for money goes, I just had it happen, after midnight in the grocery store parking lot. I told him "no." No gunplay, no handcuffs, no tactical ninja-garb.:neener:

Johnny
 
Two things to keep in mind (If no one else has pointed these out).

1. Have you ever tried to fight someone into handcuffs by yourself? Handcuffs are best used once the individual is either compliant and you want to ensure your safety or you have enough power present to force them into the 'cuffs, also to ensure your safety.

2. Handcuffs make one hell of a weapon. Don't ever give your 'cuffs to a possibly dangerous person. Either they will use them like brass knuckles or unhinge one side of the cuffs and turn it into a pretty nasty slashing weapon.

I have seen both of these situations and the aftermath. Not pretty.
 
I could care less about carrying cuffs personally. I have a gun, and the bullets travel more than 21ft, I have NO desire to get that personal with a BG.
If someone here wants to say politely why cuffs are not a good idea to apply properly (both HANDS) thats fine. If someone wants to carry cuffs without proper training thats fine also, it's THEIR call. I just really hate these questions that should cause a civil discussion turn into "I'm a LEO and that means I'm 5 times smarter and "fairy/TV land" comments."
And as an aside-
This is a forum for gun enthusiasts, some of the least knowledgable gun owners I ever met are cops, you don't have a lock on all gun knowledge.
LEO's sacrifice and have dangerous jobs but they aren't the only ones. Your department sent you to live in the Middle East for a year or two lately without your family? Deal with crack dealers planting roadside bombs?
Most cops have their head on straight, don't refer to non-LEO's as "Civilians" (since cops are civilians also), don't have the us v. them mentality so this is directed at the few....
CT
 
If you see a potential threat then avoid it. No, this doesn't work every time but it does work like 99% of the time. If you see some hoodlums down the street, either go down another street or start running and run right by them. Most muggers will not chase an already running person down the road. Yes, it looks a bit silly but it works. If it is more then a potential threat then it is an actual threat and you should pull out your weapon if you cant get away. Handcuffs are lame. If I was going to attack yo and you had handcuffs in hand I would just shoot you first. Carry some pepper spray and a gun and you should be good.

-David
 
Central Texas,

We have a rule in Strategies and Tactics about not not drifting into political commentary. It's hard for us all to follow sometime.

No one was condescending to anyone else in this thread. I believe you are mistaking someone attempting to really state what a bad idea this is for talking down to people.

The number of people in our society who believe that TV shows and video games are a true representation of real life never ceases to amaze me. We even have had threads started here by people who want to talk about what they learned from last night's episode of their favorite action/adventure show.

This part of the post is for everybody
I'm posting this here instead of sending it by PM, because I want to take this opportunity to point out that the level of discourse here in S&T and on THR as a whole has declined. It's not going to be acceptable for that decline to continue. Everyone needs to re-read the rules, to include the stickies in the forums. Members who want to stay on as a member of this online community need to keep things on The High Road. If they don't they won't be here any longer. It's that simple.

Jeff

Jeff
 
If someone here wants to say politely why cuffs are not a good idea to apply properly (both HANDS) thats fine. If someone wants to carry cuffs without proper training thats fine also, it's THEIR call.
Click to expand...

Sir, all of the posters I have noted on this thread HAVE stated politely why carrying handcuffs as a non-LEO is a bad idea.

Here's the situation, to put it in black and white:

You are in some type of circumstance that allows someone else to see that you carry handcuffs. You report the circumstance to the police.

During the course of your report, you mention that you have handcuffs. Another witness refers to you as "that officer". Congratulations--you are now flirting with a criminal impersonation charge.

Second scenario:

For whatever reason, you have someone at gunpoint. You have ample reason to do so. You toss your handcuffs to them and say, "Cuf yourself". They sneer back, "Bleep you". What's your next step?

Third scenario:

Same as above, but the person complies, cuffing themselves in the front. What's next?
 
You said-
"Second scenario:

For whatever reason, you have someone at gunpoint. You have ample reason to do so. You toss your handcuffs to them and say, "Cuf yourself". They sneer back, "Bleep you". What's your next step?

Third scenario:

Same as above, but the person complies, cuffing themselves in the front. What's next?"

In the second one, you have lost nothing and they may comply, endgame is the same if they attack--> bodybag. I'm not sure why they would comply with my order to remain on the ground and not move, but not my order to cuff themselves.
In the third scenario -what's next is the same as if you didn't have cuffs, you wait for the police....
CT
 
On the first one, fair enough. So what happens if they take your handcuffs, say "I'm outta here" and simply start to walk away?

On the other one, there is a reason why we cuff someone's hands behind their back. Cuffing in the front does not really restrict anyone, it simply limits their range of motion. Moreover, it is really easy to get a set of locked cuffs open when your hands are in front. No, I'm not going to tell you how.

This is the bottom line. DO NOT CARRY HANDCUFFS! You, as a private citizen, should be concerned with your own active presentation of defense. I am not saying that you are not capable, but the capture and arrest of criminals is a different ball game that few people outside of law enforcement have any reason at all to try.

If you want to become actively involved in the capture and arrest of criminals, then by all means apply to your local law enforcement agency. We can always use a few more good people.
 
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