Making the rounds today, Gandog. Lol, anyhow I agee; the two cartridges make an excellent pair.
Making the rounds today, Gandog. Lol, anyhow I agee; the two cartridges make an excellent pair.
Unless HK chambered the USP or Mk23 in 10mm.
It seems the norm for some to say the 10mm is a good choice for the woods and either say or imply that the .40 or .45 isn't. The issue that I have is that if I load up a G20 (I've owned several) shooting a warm 180gr at 1350 fps, what exactly will that absolutely kill that a warm .40 180gr @ 1300 fps from a G35 or warm 230gr @ 1000 fps from a G21 will not?
I'd like to know what the 10mm diehards opinions on this are.
sfed said:To end the 10mm vs 45 acp vs 40S&W vs 9mm debate just go to Clark Customs and get the 460 Rowand conversion for the single stack 45 with the 5 inch barrel. Drop these parts into a high quality 45 acp and with the 460 Rowland brass from starline you will change the 45 into a 44 Magnum like performer. That conversion kit is debating on jumping into my 45 acp, with double the energy of a standard 45 it will blow the 9mm 40 S&W and the 10 mm out the water. The 460 brass will not chamber into the 45acp chamber and that is basically all the difference there is and that is so the 460 is not run through a standard 45acp
GLOOP said:I think your numbers are off on both the 10mm and the 40SW.
As for the difference between 45 and 10mm, it's velocity, frontal area, and sectional density. The 10mm has less frontal area and can throw bullets with higher sectional density at significantly greater speeds. So... I am guessing with hard cast bullets with a good meplat, this translates to the 10mm doing slightly less damage to the insides of a bear at 3 feet deep as compared to what the 45ACP is doing at 1-2 foot deep. Or something like that. IOW, the 10mm can do a lot more damage than the 45ACP at the depths that could matter for a frontal shot on large game.
You can't do that with a souped up 45ACP short of using a saboted bullet]
The author of the article, a very well known trainer, has changed his mind at least a couple of times, changing from a .45 to a .40 and then to a 9MM.
It doesn't matter what is possible out of one certain gun. If that were the question, it would be a coin toss as to what you can get running faster. That's why I say your numbers are off. You can't call it 40SW if it won't run in lots of guns that are made to shoot 40SW. I'm pretty sure your load wouldn't work in my G27. I exceeded its operating parameters limit well before that, using 155 grain bullets.180gr doing 1350 is possible from a G20 and that 1300 is possible from a G35
GLOOB wrote: ...And finally, the 230 grain 45ACP bullet has 9% lower sectional density than the 10mm (200 grain).
So 9% less momentum and 9% lower sectional density = less penetration...
How many buy 9mm guns rather than .45Auto?If size of gun was the real issue then .45 should have been dead about a 100 years ago.
Well there are many single stack 10mms..
Mk23 in 10mm.
What are the other single stack designs chambered in 10mm?
Yep, lots of 1911's available. I'm a 1911 shooter. If I was picking between a 1911 in .40 S&W or 10MM, I'd pick 10MM. If I'm picking between any of the many double stacks such as Glock, M&P, HK, FN, etc., I'd pick a .40S&W. I personally don't need the 10MM's upper level of performance potential and the .40 S&W is sufficient for my needs. For me, the G20 is bigger than I care for while the G22 is still manageable.Well there are many single stack 10mms.
Why is it so hard for some of these people to understand that someof us just want a larger caliber ammo that fits in a 9mm size magazine?
It fits my purpose. 10mm do not. What part of that is so hard to understand?
3rd gen S&W's 1006, 1076, etc. etc.
Isn't the 9x21 a work around for countries that don't allow military cartridges for civilians? I didn't know the col is the same as the 9mm luger so that extra 2 mm's isn't even being used. Anyone with their entire brain intact would not consider the 9x21 to be an improvement over the 9mm.Not sure if you guys read the original comment. But you would have to have half a brain to think reaming out your chamber for 9x21 IMI is an upgrade.
I suppose you could manufacture a benefit from the longer case by custom loading super light ammo well over SAAMI OAL, maybe in a Glock or a throated 45ACP platform which can feed longer rounds. A regular parabellum case might not hold onto enough bullet in this special case.
Other than that, you aren't going to get any difference by making the case longer and keeping the same OAL out of the SAME gun. It doesn't matter if you are buying factory ammo or handloading. It's the same cartridge only it's intentionally made to NOT fit into a 9mm para handgun. If you can legally own a 9x19, what's the point of 9x21, then? Just in case you accidentally buy a pallet of the wrong ammo?