.357 magnum. I can carry my SP101 every day, and with my softholster, I can carry my 4 in 686 or 65-2 anytime.
Why not CCW a powerful handgun?
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The problem with analyzing FMJs is that a scatter plot of the 9mm FMJs looks like this:
From left to right: 109 gr 9x18mm Mak fired from a Makarov, 115 gr 9x19mm fired from a Kel-Tec P11, 124 gr 9x19mm fired from a Beretta M9.
Scatter plot of all FMJs isn't too much better:
It looks like energy correlates, at a glance, but all you've really got, going left to right, is a horizontal line for .22 LR LRNs, another line of .32 ACP FMJs, 2 subcompact 9mm FMJs, then two full sized guns on the far right in 9mm and .45.
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I usually carry a full size 1911 off duty or my Glock 26. The smallest gun I have ever carried for special assignments is my 442 Smith (airweight snub)
Pat
Pat
I usually carry a commander frame 1911. It's not quite full size, but it's bigger than a lot of other guns. I carried a 5" for a while and it wasn't bad, but I was glad when I got my commander back.
We need a graph where the outcome variable is actually what happens to folks. That's the problem with all these energy, channel graphs, etc. analyses.
That's easy!
Shot in brain with .22: dead
Shot in brain with .32: dead
Shot in brain with 9mm: dead
Shot in brain with .45: dead
Shot in heart with .22: dead
Shot in heart with .32: dead
Shot in heart with 9mm: dead
Shot in heart with .45: dead
Shot in intestines with .22: screamed and passed out
Shot in intestines with .32: screamed and passed out
Shot in intestines with .9mm: screamed and passed out
Shot in intestines with .45: screamed and passed out
Etc.
Feanaro
Member
Your choices seem unfairly skewed, the language of your post favoring a pre-determined outcome(the big guns). I shoot some of those smaller, "weaker" pistols better than some of the larger, "stronger" pistols. At 7-15 yards I shoot a Kel-Tec P32 faster and slightly more accurately than all the .38/.357 snubbies I have tried. Some people are really fast and accurate with .45s and such, but not everyone. Some people just shoot a 9mm faster and more accurately. Better a puny hit than a Mjolnir that swings wide. (Although if given a choice, I would take the big guns
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Cute way of saying that shot placement matters more than caliber, but like everything else, it isn't quite that simple.
A .22, for instance, doesn't always make it into the brain case; sometimes it simply skitters off the skull. Of course, that can also happen with almost any round-nosed bullet type no matter what the caliber.
Even a brain shot isn't always a guaranteed kill. Just ask all the poor slobs who've ever tried to kill themselves with a shot in the head ... and failed. The shot's gotta hit the right part of the brain, yes. But heads move faster than bodies do.
A shot in the heart doesn't always result in immediate death ... nor even in eventual death, if medical care is forthcoming. I remember being shocked watching a video of a training lecture given by a female cop who had been shot right through the heart at powder-burn range with a .357 magnum. Obviously she was still alive to tell the tale. I have heard that the survivability of a heart shot can depend upon whether the heart is expanding or contracting at the moment the bullet impacts it, and there's no shooter alive who can control that.
A shot in the intestines may nick an artery. Result: DRT. Or it may not nick anything. Result: continued assault and you'd better have another round headed that direction.
There are no magic bullets. There are better calibers, and worse ones.
There is no magic placements. There are better places to shoot, and worse ones.
Only answer is to practice a lot with what you know you're going to carry, and to carry enough of it that you can keep shooting when your magic doesn't work.
pax
Does anything correlate with hole volume, with that set of data? Bullet weight? Caliber? Velocity?
Pax, yep, I was simplifying for the sake of not having to type a lot.
Coylh, no one factor really correlates. That's part of the point of plotting those things; if you fixate on one single factor of the bullet (like caliber, energy, or velocity), you get pretty rotten correlation. If I had to pick a single factor, though, it'd be bullet design. Well-designed bullets driven at moderate velocities tended to perform the best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_Power is recommended reading. And not just because I wrote it!
Coylh, no one factor really correlates. That's part of the point of plotting those things; if you fixate on one single factor of the bullet (like caliber, energy, or velocity), you get pretty rotten correlation. If I had to pick a single factor, though, it'd be bullet design. Well-designed bullets driven at moderate velocities tended to perform the best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_Power is recommended reading. And not just because I wrote it!
I'm not one to sit here and argue energy levels and velocity, because personally, I feel ANY gun is better than NO gun!
My usual carry is a .45 ACP loaded with 165-gr. Federal Hydra-Shok. No reload.
The other carry is a .38 Spl. loaded with 125-gr. Hornady JHP/XTP. Spare speedloader with the same.
I have NO doubts in their effective when in my hands, as I'm also one who believes as long as you have rounds and the threat is not yet stopped, keep shooting until it is.
Just my humble opinion though. YMMV.
-38SnubFan
My usual carry is a .45 ACP loaded with 165-gr. Federal Hydra-Shok. No reload.
The other carry is a .38 Spl. loaded with 125-gr. Hornady JHP/XTP. Spare speedloader with the same.
I have NO doubts in their effective when in my hands, as I'm also one who believes as long as you have rounds and the threat is not yet stopped, keep shooting until it is.
Just my humble opinion though. YMMV.
-38SnubFan
For me, I'm forbidden to carry at work - to be caught doing so, by some of the more liberal of my co-workers, would mean getting fired. My management is pro-gun, but it would get reported to corporate HR & I'd be finished.
Not wanting to lose a decent job & try starting over at...well....let's just say I'm closer to retirement age than college grad age - I'll have a KelTec P32 tucked away while at the office. It is either that, or nothing.
Outside the office, I'll carry a 3" or 5" 1911; if I want more rounds & can go OWB a 10 round .40S&W will be on my waist.
FWIW, in my world there are times you must make an accommodation for the environment.
Not wanting to lose a decent job & try starting over at...well....let's just say I'm closer to retirement age than college grad age - I'll have a KelTec P32 tucked away while at the office. It is either that, or nothing.
Outside the office, I'll carry a 3" or 5" 1911; if I want more rounds & can go OWB a 10 round .40S&W will be on my waist.
FWIW, in my world there are times you must make an accommodation for the environment.
Greetings:
After reading this thread I wanted to add this. When I worked In LE I carried a S&W Model 58 & 57 41 mags 4" bbl, my back up and off duty was a Model 57 with a 2 1/2"bbl made up by Magnaport. As a matter of fact all my model 57s were magnaported my 58 isn't. Durring my time with the Army as a MP & CID it was a Model 10 38spl,1911 and M9. In 1994 I left LE due to an injury and in 1999 found out carrying a full size 1911 or my snub 57 was a little too much to concel. I ended up buying a Kahr MK40 and found it to be a royal pain to shoot but was great to carry. I ended up switching to a Kahr K40 and found that it was a joy to shoot and pratice weekly with it. With the work I do now I am sitting and driving alot and broke out my older Model 60 snub with an ankle holster. Guess I am trying to say is pratice regularly with what you carry and use ammo that you can shoot well with. I feel its my responabilty to be well versed in what I carry and use.Caliber does matter but what good is it if you shoot once and a while and can't hit the target everytime?Misses don't stop anything but hits do. Just my .02
After reading this thread I wanted to add this. When I worked In LE I carried a S&W Model 58 & 57 41 mags 4" bbl, my back up and off duty was a Model 57 with a 2 1/2"bbl made up by Magnaport. As a matter of fact all my model 57s were magnaported my 58 isn't. Durring my time with the Army as a MP & CID it was a Model 10 38spl,1911 and M9. In 1994 I left LE due to an injury and in 1999 found out carrying a full size 1911 or my snub 57 was a little too much to concel. I ended up buying a Kahr MK40 and found it to be a royal pain to shoot but was great to carry. I ended up switching to a Kahr K40 and found that it was a joy to shoot and pratice weekly with it. With the work I do now I am sitting and driving alot and broke out my older Model 60 snub with an ankle holster. Guess I am trying to say is pratice regularly with what you carry and use ammo that you can shoot well with. I feel its my responabilty to be well versed in what I carry and use.Caliber does matter but what good is it if you shoot once and a while and can't hit the target everytime?Misses don't stop anything but hits do. Just my .02
I carry a Colt Trooper .357 with JHP's. I use an Uncle Mikes IWB retention holster. It's not invisible, but it is discreet.
Can't agree enough nor overemphasize the need for constant practice. Proficiency will make up for the compromises we make.
Regarding 9mm, some food for thought. I am a corrections officer. I once had an inmate who was in jail for having one very bad day and mixing guns and booze at the end of it. He survived 8 hits with 9mm's when he pointed a rifle at the police.
Can't agree enough nor overemphasize the need for constant practice. Proficiency will make up for the compromises we make.
Regarding 9mm, some food for thought. I am a corrections officer. I once had an inmate who was in jail for having one very bad day and mixing guns and booze at the end of it. He survived 8 hits with 9mm's when he pointed a rifle at the police.
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