jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,212
A couple reasons. First, many of us Gen-X and younger learned to shoot on detachable-magazine guns, mostly own and are familiar with detachable-magazine guns, and prefer the ability to easily load/unload or carry a spare mag, vs. the ability to have a smooth-bottomed rifle. Speaking for myself, I would happily pay >$100 more for a bolt-action rifle that used common detachable mags instead of fixed mags, though in the current market I wouldn’t have to.Seems like a lot of hunting rifles come with a detachable magazine that is (usually) a proprietary design are can be difficult to locate replacements or spares. Given that fast reloads while hunting is not a high priority, why do manufacturers of many rifles choose to use detachable magazines?
About 80% of gun owners are nonhunters, and a lot of those are getting into bolt rifles for target shooting, centerfire plinking, stretching the range a little vs. smaller-caliber semiautos, or are maybe thinking about hunting in the future but their primary interest is marksmanship /or load development rather than shooting deer from a tree stand. Nothing wrong with that.I think much of the rhetoric about detachable mags comes from folks who are not roaming around the woods with a rifle but only from their vehicle to the bench.
If they are common-pattern detachable mags, replacing them will be as simple as grabbing a new one from Academy for twenty or thirty bucks. But woe be unto you if you lose a proprietary magazine, for sure.My man its a hunting rifle. I have plenty of tactical type rifles with detachable magazines, but realistically nobody is "operating" with a bolt action deer gun where they need to be doing quick mag changes. I'd be willing to bet that in 20-30 years half the used rifles on the shelves will be missing the magazine because the owner lost it somewhere along the way.
It certainly hasn’t helped. A mini-14 Ranch Rifle was my first centerfire rifle, and the major thorns in my side over the years I owned it were its inaccuracy (188-series accuracy lemon, shot about 4MOA) and its proprietary mags. The latter didn’t affect me too much until the idiotic 1994 Clinton/Feinstein law jacked the price of proprietary mags through the roof, and quality took a dive. ARs, AKs, FALs, and other users of standardized magazines had piles of dirt-cheap mags available 1994-2004, but finding reliable replacement mags for a mini-14 was extraordinarily difficult and expensive during those times, and I think one reason why its popularity took a dive compared to the AR platform during that time (the others being its lack of modularity, and the fact that its price rose over time while the price of AR’s has fallen considerably).How about the Mini-14? Proprietary magazine there with some aftermarket support that most internet forum pundits will claim do not work (not been my limited experience). Nobody has to buy the Mini-14, and while I certainly wouldn't see the rationale of a military doing it, they seem to be extraordinarily popular. Despite being overshadowed by the "American Rifle," an awful lot of people have a Mini and 50 years of being saddled with a proprietary magazine hasn't killed it.
No but folks should keep in mind that not everybody is doing what they're doing with their rifles, which goes both ways. I see more "Fudd" comments towards folks that prefer a blind mag or floorplate than anything in the other direction. Like post #28.About 80% of gun owners are nonhunters, and a lot of those are getting into bolt rifles for target shooting, centerfire plinking, stretching the range a little vs. smaller-caliber semiautos, or are maybe thinking about hunting in the future but their primary interest is marksmanship /or load development rather than shooting deer from a tree stand. Nothing wrong with that.
I guess we can't all be perfect. You should feel blessed. And if you leave it in the gun then it's no different than having one with an attached magazine to begin with.I just leave the detachable magazine in the gun, LOL.
A person who buys a rifle with an attached magazine so that s/he won't forget said magazine is the same sort of person who would then forget to bring ammo for the rifle with the attached magazine. With that said, I have had people show up from Dallas to shoot on my range, after a 90 minute drive, only to realize they forgot their guns. I had a guy show up for a 1000 round pistol match that forgot his ammo. Those people are definitely out there.
Yep, I 100% agree that isn’t helpful or applicable here. Traditionalists who prefer classic lines are as welcome to their preferences as anyone else.No but folks should keep in mind that not everybody is doing what they're doing with their rifles, which goes both ways. I see more "Fudd" comments towards folks that prefer a blind mag or floorplate than anything in the other direction. Like post #28.
Me! I forget bolts semi regularly, mags now and then, forgot my CM rounds this morning....cant go anywhere without forgetting something....I just leave the detachable magazine in the gun, LOL.
A person who buys a rifle with an attached magazine so that s/he won't forget said magazine is the same sort of person who would then forget to bring ammo for the rifle with the attached magazine. With that said, I have had people show up from Dallas to shoot on my range, after a 90 minute drive, only to realize they forgot their guns. I had a guy show up for a 1000 round pistol match that forgot his ammo. Those people are definitely out there.
Blind mags suck, well at least the one on my Savage did! My X-bolt flush mag is perfect in function, and rounds don’t fall everywhere when I remove it like the hinged floor plate rifles do.
This is the shortest AR magazine I have seen, as mentioned in my previous post.
The very bottom of the magazine sits on top of the magazine catch.
View attachment 1189337
My personal collection of short AR magazines: Left to right: Straight 20rd (ref), Rock River 9rd 223/556 , 10rd Magpul Pmag (I tried to convert to 4rd 450 Bushmaster), a DPMS 4rd 450 Bushmaster, Remington 4rd 30 Remington AR.
View attachment 1189338
9rd magazine in an ar, that is about 5/8 inch hanging down.
Thanks...
In regards to the 9 rnd Rock River... that looks like the Surefeed 10rnd.
Could you pleeeaassssse double check and take a pic of how the base plate attaches?
I've though about using the Surefeed and put a flat base on it for a Ruger American Ranch 4-6 round mag
I don't mind it sticking out some but a normal 10 rnd AR mag is pretty gangly walking around with a bolt gun and not needing 7-9 quick follow up shots
Detachable magazines are great for loading and unloading. Racking multiple live rounds through a firearm after a hunt isn’t my favorite thing to do. Also, it’s nice to insert the mag, rack in a round and be ready to go. I realize it’s isn’t a big thing, but if there’s and easier way, why not?
As for being proprietary, from what I’ve read there is considerable engineering that goes into producing a firearm that has consistent, reliable feeding. Using existing magazines would most likely introduce issues.
Yeah, would have to disagree...The AR magazine is a textbook example of why there isn't such a "standard". It's flimsy, weak, and the source of most malfunctions. (This is of course due it it originally being effectively one-time use.) Were it not a "standard", nobody would use it in new designs.
But it *is* standardized under STANAG 4179, and because it is widely used across many families of rifles, there is a bustling aftermarket that includes many quality magazines on the market that are far better than the original disposable aluminum ones, to the extent that many smallbore bolt-action varmint rifles now use them.The AR magazine is a textbook example of why there isn't such a "standard". It's flimsy, weak, and the source of most malfunctions. (This is of course due it it originally being effectively one-time use.) Were it not a "standard", nobody would use it in new designs.
Properly designed magazines will last as long as the gun. So the issue of "proprietary" is irrelevant.
Have there been any rifles made in the last 50-60 years that take clips?In my state and probably others you cannot transport a loaded weapon. Clips solve that problem and allow quick reloads.
I "roamed" for somewhere around 150+ miles this hunting season. I would never buy a rifle that didn't have a detachable magazine, unless it was just a ridiculously good deal for some reason, then I'd be converting it.I think much of the rhetoric about detachable mags comes from folks who are not roaming around the woods with a rifle but only from their vehicle to the bench.
Agreed. I'd love to use a single shot. I just can't justify the price.Single shot for the win.
Seriously, if bolt-actions weren't half the price, generally more accurate, and better suited to optics, I wouldn't hesitate to use a Ruger No. 1.
Same. Besides that, I have routinely run more rounds through an AR magazine in a single day than my bolt action hunting rifle is likely to see in several years. Apples and oranges.I have done some pretty horrible things to AR magazine and they keep on functioning.
Oh, I don't know about that, I kinda liked my CZ 527M...wish I hadn't lost it.Late to this party, but I have to chime in on a couple of points.
1) I don't understand the angst about how different manufacturers use different detachable magazines. Most of the available actions aren't built to standardized dimensions. They all take different stocks, different bolts, firing pins, etc. How boring would the world be if everything was the same? *cough* ARsareallthesamenomatteryourbuildspec *cough*
2) There are LOTS of old guns that turn up missing detachable magazines. (Bolts too .) While it isn't the norm, it happens often enough that it wasn't a huge surprise when I was working at a gun shop. And good luck turning up a magazine for something that's been out of production for even 25 years. A 100-year old design? Buy lottery tickets while you comb the auction and parts sites to find a replacement, and see which pays out first. Due to this experience, I switched from "never store a firearm with a magazine in it" to "better leave an empty magazine in it so you always have at least one".
3) I have one of those neat little CZ-527 micro-Mauser-esque bolt actions, and the one thing I'd change in a heart beat is to swap the 5-round detachable magazine for a 4 or 5 round internal box magazine with hinged floor-plate. It's a hunting/field walking rifle, quick magazine changes aren't a priority. The magazine sticking down right at the carry point is kind of a bummer. Not to mention it ruins the lines of an otherwise trim little carbine. Oh, the top couple of rounds feed pretty stiffly due to the pressure from the magazine spring too. Seriously, the magazine is the one blemish on an otherwise tidy package.