Chuck R.
Member
I agree, for some reason I'm just faster with the pump, and that's after spending quite a bit of time shooting CAS with a lever.
Will pump-action centerfire rifles ever make a comeback?
- Thread starter Showman
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Shanghai McCoy
Member
The 7615 was supposed to do just that I think. Seen pictures but never saw one in "the wild" though.
Charlie98
Member
If a modern pump was released, I'm sure there would be a version like that... look what they've done to the venerable lever-action. Wood and steel appeal to one set of buyers, black plastic and rails appeal to another set... helping to justify the tooling. I find it unlikely in either event... and I say that as a pump rifle fan. Fact is... I've never owned a pump centerfire rifle. I gave my Remington Fieldmaster to my nephew, and I gave my Mossberg 500 back to my brother.
Pump rifles don't have the nostalgia lever-actions do, the speed a semi-auto does, the accuracy potential a bolt does.
jmorris
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You can even get a pump action AR or PAR as its called...
Laws would be the only reason I could think they would become more popular but not sure you can make a "comeback" if you were never on top.
lightman
Member
I doubt we will ever see them come back.
I hope not, but they probably will. I never thought I'd see the interest in lever guns that is out there today.
Pump actions work great for shotguns and wingshooting, not so much for rifle shooting. Pump shotguns tend to be very reliable mostly because of the low pressure shotshells. When you get to higher pressure modern rifle cartridges pumps tend to jam a lot more often. They are a lot heavier than a bolt gun, and not as accurate. As well as more expensive.
If fired standing they can be a little faster to get off repeat shots, but if "aimed" repeat shots are the goal there is no difference. And they are the slowest action to use when fired from any supported position, prone, or from behind cover.
If for some reason Semi-auto AR's were to be banned a bolt gun in a Scout style configuration or something like the Ruger Ranch bolt guns would be a better choice than a pump or lever action.
Pump actions work great for shotguns and wingshooting, not so much for rifle shooting. Pump shotguns tend to be very reliable mostly because of the low pressure shotshells. When you get to higher pressure modern rifle cartridges pumps tend to jam a lot more often. They are a lot heavier than a bolt gun, and not as accurate. As well as more expensive.
If fired standing they can be a little faster to get off repeat shots, but if "aimed" repeat shots are the goal there is no difference. And they are the slowest action to use when fired from any supported position, prone, or from behind cover.
If for some reason Semi-auto AR's were to be banned a bolt gun in a Scout style configuration or something like the Ruger Ranch bolt guns would be a better choice than a pump or lever action.
Riomouse911
Contributing Member
I’ve never owned a pump action centerfire, only a Rossi 62A .22. That rifle brings me back to my youth, traipsing the oak canyons of the family ranch with a Winchester 1890 .22 LR looking for squirrels.
A modern Colt Lightning clone in .45 ACP might be a pretty neat little farmyard gun.
Stay safe.
A modern Colt Lightning clone in .45 ACP might be a pretty neat little farmyard gun.
Stay safe.
AlexanderA
Member
Pump-action AR-15's might become a legal workaround, depending on how future ban legislation is worded. Although unpleasant, it's good to think about these contingencies.
tubeshooter
Contributing Member
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Not sure if centerfire pumps will ever return in great quantity... but I know if it's not butter smooth the way people want to remember them then there will be mumbling and groaning. At least this is what I have seen with modern-day rimfire pump attempts.
I also figure that bolt guns are so much easier to make, not to mention probably generally tougher and more accepting of abuse. Same could be said of the lever, but the technology is there AND there is a fairly proven market for it. A pump would be much more of a crap shoot on a manufacturer's part nowadays.
That being said - you sometimes see people pining for old IMI Timberwolves and other pump rifles of yore. On boards like this and others, anyway. The $64-million question, as always, is "Is there truly enough sustained market to warrant production?". Not even mentioning the tide of AR guns it would have to wade through and compete with...
I also figure that bolt guns are so much easier to make, not to mention probably generally tougher and more accepting of abuse. Same could be said of the lever, but the technology is there AND there is a fairly proven market for it. A pump would be much more of a crap shoot on a manufacturer's part nowadays.
That being said - you sometimes see people pining for old IMI Timberwolves and other pump rifles of yore. On boards like this and others, anyway. The $64-million question, as always, is "Is there truly enough sustained market to warrant production?". Not even mentioning the tide of AR guns it would have to wade through and compete with...
Just history - a description from Gun Broker:
At the time, it was realized that police were undergunned. However, there was antigun push back over police with ARs as being too militaristic and intimidating the populace. This lead to the 9mm carbines from Ruger and Beretta but the North Hollywood shoot out argued against 9mm. The Ruger Minis were viable and lots of them were purchased as they are nicer looking. I've told watching a zillion TX lawfolk charging across a field after an escapee murderer and they had Minis.
The 7615's rationale was it didn't look like an AR (real reason) and the BS reason that cops had experience with 870s and thus could figure out the 7615. Duh.
Now, if we got a total semi ban, as we might have after Las Vegas - the orange one was on board with that until the NRA gave him a reality check - there might be a wave of pump guns, along with the tactical AR-ish levers we see, like from Bond.
However, if there is enough sentiment and refusal of Scotus to act (LIKE NOW!), pump and lever bans would quickly follow - see the UK and Australia for that one. Some countries have figured out that Minis are just as 'evil' as ARs and banning them - like Canada and Norway.
Scotus is the solution - but that seems to be off the table. They are going to take up a case on domestic abusers - like that is a big deal. Whoopee. Bruen enforcement - crickets.
Remington 7615 Police online at GunBroker.com
The Remington Model 7615 Police black synthetic stock pump-action patrol rifle is chambered for .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO). This tactical gun has a short 16.5” length barrel making it easier to use in potentially tighter quarters or in and around police cars, etc. than a longer barrel version would.At the time, it was realized that police were undergunned. However, there was antigun push back over police with ARs as being too militaristic and intimidating the populace. This lead to the 9mm carbines from Ruger and Beretta but the North Hollywood shoot out argued against 9mm. The Ruger Minis were viable and lots of them were purchased as they are nicer looking. I've told watching a zillion TX lawfolk charging across a field after an escapee murderer and they had Minis.
The 7615's rationale was it didn't look like an AR (real reason) and the BS reason that cops had experience with 870s and thus could figure out the 7615. Duh.
Now, if we got a total semi ban, as we might have after Las Vegas - the orange one was on board with that until the NRA gave him a reality check - there might be a wave of pump guns, along with the tactical AR-ish levers we see, like from Bond.
However, if there is enough sentiment and refusal of Scotus to act (LIKE NOW!), pump and lever bans would quickly follow - see the UK and Australia for that one. Some countries have figured out that Minis are just as 'evil' as ARs and banning them - like Canada and Norway.
Scotus is the solution - but that seems to be off the table. They are going to take up a case on domestic abusers - like that is a big deal. Whoopee. Bruen enforcement - crickets.
My guess is the reliability issue w pump rifles is the same as with pump shotguns....user error.
Like another mentioned, am amazed at how popular lever actions are these days. I didnt care for the Winchester and Marlin stuff back when they were a commonly available product. Now folks are all agog over cheaper versions.
My 760 shoots around an inch at 100. Factory ammo. It doesnt wander either.
Like another mentioned, am amazed at how popular lever actions are these days. I didnt care for the Winchester and Marlin stuff back when they were a commonly available product. Now folks are all agog over cheaper versions.
My 760 shoots around an inch at 100. Factory ammo. It doesnt wander either.
Eutycus
Member
Pump action for the shotgun and the 22 but in my opinion the nostalgia factor just isn't there for the centerfire rifle.
Good point user error is underestimated when folks are told just buy a pump gun and rack it. However, with levers - stroking can be the same hiccup. I saw a guy bring a lever to a carbine match. That's fun for grins - however, he wasn't up to speed and continually screwed up the stroking. Saw a guy shoot a match with a bolt gun - he was up to speed and amazingly fast for that platform but wouldn't be my choice after WW I.
doubleh
Member
I doubt they will. The reason they went away is lack of sales. It was rare action to be found around my part of the world when they were in production. One of my sister-in-laws used one to hunt with and bagged a black bear with it. One in 300 Savage caliber was my son's first deer rifle and for 1 year only as it came cheap as it's owner didn't like it. It was a reasonably mild recoiling gun for a kid to shoot. Those are the only 2 I knew of to be used and I was acquainted with quite a few hunters. Bolt actions ruled then.
If there is a market manufactures will fill it but only if it will return a reasonable profit. It might be resurrected but I have my doubts. Gun actions seem to be somewhat like women's fashions. Styles change but much faster with women and it'd be a much more expensive to tool up to manufacture a gun than it is to make a new dress pattern. On the other hand look at what has happened with revolvers. It wasn't long ago that revolvers were a scarce commodity here. Now they are much more plentiful although still not close to the plastic fantastics. Generational desire and cost are limiting factors with any product. My experience with young shooters is most have little interest in revolvers. Give the kids more years and their interest increases with some but not all.
If there is a market manufactures will fill it but only if it will return a reasonable profit. It might be resurrected but I have my doubts. Gun actions seem to be somewhat like women's fashions. Styles change but much faster with women and it'd be a much more expensive to tool up to manufacture a gun than it is to make a new dress pattern. On the other hand look at what has happened with revolvers. It wasn't long ago that revolvers were a scarce commodity here. Now they are much more plentiful although still not close to the plastic fantastics. Generational desire and cost are limiting factors with any product. My experience with young shooters is most have little interest in revolvers. Give the kids more years and their interest increases with some but not all.
I own the same rifle. Its a dandy rifle and I think if it were in the more common 30-30 it might have stuck arounda little longer. In the woods where shots are under 100 yards and typically 30-70 it would still be a fine rifle. Mine has family history so its not going anywhere, but likely won't get used either
-Jeff
ThomasT
Member
I have owned a 760 and a 7615 and regret selling both of them. If I found another Remington pump at a reasonable price I would buy it. I really screwed the pooch selling that 7615.
Riomouse911
Contributing Member
Hard to “Like” a post that lists regrets… but I agree with the sentiment as I have had sellers remorse a couple of times myself.
Hope you can find one to bring home!
Stay safe.
jmorris
Member
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Yeah, in the UK they threw centefire pumps in with semis.
Firearms regulation in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
mgmorden
Member
I hope not, because the only way I see it happening is if semi-autos were banned. If that occurs I think we'd see a huge push in new designs for manually articulated actions of various sorts, but that's not something I'm willing to give up to see that development.
illinoisburt
Member
With the number of states which already have bans or heavy restriction in place that the demand would already exist, however it doesn't at this time. People would rather work diligently to massage the definitions than switch platforms which should give a good indication of how few folks actually want to see them make a comeback.
ThomasT
Member
Hard to “Like” a post that lists regrets… but I agree with the sentiment as I have had sellers remorse a couple of times myself.
Hope you can find one to bring home!
Stay safe.
The 760 pump I had was in 270. it was old and I called Remington to see when it was made. The lady on the phone couldn't find out. A few days later she called back and told me the gun was a first year 270 released in Pennsylvania in 1954 called the Pennsylvania Hunter. Someone had removed the dingus between the slide tube and barrel so the barrel was free floated. With Remington green box express 130gr it would shoot little 1" groups 3 shots at a time. I paid $175 for it OTD from a pawn shop down in Beeville Tx while working insurance claims for Hurricane Claudette.
As soon as the 7615s were advertised I had my gun dealer order me one. What a slick little gun that was. I never shot it off a bench, just plinked with it. And like all Remingtons it pointed so well for me. Just raise the gun and you were on target. Easy to run through the 10 round mag. I hated the recoil pad. It was grabby and tacky. it was one of the Limbsaver brands. You don't need a thick pad on a 223. But that was the only thing about that gun I didn't like. I never lost a single piece of brass either.
I sold it to buy a Mini-14. I love the Mini but wish I would have kept the 7615. They sell for stupid money now.
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plumberroy
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User error/ short stroking a pump gun is something I can not wrap my head around.
I have serious doubts about being around someone who can't run a pump gun.
Pull trigger, pull forearm back until it stops, push forward until it stops repeat. I just don't understand how you can mess that up. I'm 62 years old I have been regularly carrying a pump shotgun & occasionally rifle since I was 14 I have never short strokes a pump gun. There were years that I shot 600-800 rounds at game. I've stopped several feral dogs that had full intentions of eating me and a couple of steers that wanted to tap dance on me .
As far as new pump rifles I won't hold my breath. Too many young people want tacticool. Personally I would love a blue steel and nice wood pump in something like 32 H&R mag or 327 federal. I think it would make a great do-all rifle
Well, go to a match or ask folks who teach shotguns classes and they commonly report short stroking as the thing they see most as a screw up. Supposedly, police have seen that in stressful gun fights. Just saying what I read. It's practice, practice.
tark
Member
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