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There's been several news reports lately. They also caused big losses to turkey farmers in the central area of the state. They are unlikely to damage dairy cattle, hogs or chickens because most of those are big confinment farms now.
I glad you realized that Minnesota is not Michigan. The idea you have that wolves should have more rights than people bother me. You must be a little lower on the food chain.
I believe the topic is what should the op do about a lame wolf. Maybe he should call the local sheriff and see if they can capture it or put it down. Or let it ravage livestock like a three legged wolf did here in Minnesota. It's on display at the historical society in Becker Co.

Predators have been plaguing farmers/ranchers since time began. THe govt does not owe you protection from predators, nor does it owe anyone else a job.

Farmers today are used to an enviroment without many predators (altho we've caused enough imbalances that we have lots of other predators instead on crops, etc)....that doesnt mean they cant start readjusting to a new norm. (Sound familiar? The economy has put alot of people in this position...how much sympathy are they getting?)

The eradication of predators...cougars, grizzlies, raptors, wolves...that took place around the turn of the century into the '40s would never be allowed today. Those animals are resources that belong to all Americans.

It's like trying to justify slaves because they made it alot more profitable to run plantations....some things are just wrong. Farmers and ranchers also need to adapt, just like the wildlife. Reintroduction of wolves didnt happen overnight.
 
9mmmare, why is it that you are choosing to ignore the source that I sighted college boy?


Any one who thinks wolves are not dangerous to humans should prove it. why don't you go and try to make friends with a wolf pack alone and unarmed? I mean really try. Come back and tell us all about it.

wake up. wolves are dangerous predators, not only because they are smart, but also because they team up. Just because you don't hear of them slaughtering humans with bloodthirsty rabid rage on a daily basis does not mean they are cute cuddly friendly critters. Yes, If I was walking alone in the woods unarmed with a pack of wolves nearby I would be somewhat frightened. Any sane or smart person would and should be. Healthy fears and respect of dangerous things are what keeps people in general alive.


LOL, young AND a man! Wow, people need to pay more attention. The 'Mare' part should give people a clue.

Anyway, 'proving' wolves are dangerous? LOL, that's why we have the historic record of humans not being killed. Seriously, that's the saddest thing I've read in this thread yet....

OTOH, of course they are dangerous. That is one thing that makes them magnificent...smart, efficient predators that work as a team. I'm sorry if that's scary....but it doesnt mean they dont have a right to live. That's why they are WILDLIFE. Wildlife is not meant to interact with humans. They have the right to live and their interactions out in the wild keep nature in balance (optimally but we've messed with it too much).

But still....scared of an animal that's never been recorded killing people. I respect them and in their territory, would take precautions to alert them of my presence. Wolves arent known for stalking humans.

How about cars? They kill people everyday. Are you scared of them?

It makes me sad to think of wildlands that are completely tamed and sanitized so people can walk around without any fear or respect of the other life. Fence the lakes so no one can drown, fence the cliffs so no one falls off, get rid of the cougars so they dont chase down little Johnny who's parents should be watching him.

WIldlife isnt just an inconvenience. Respecting them and keeping places for them to live safely isnt putting them ahead of humans. Wildlife and the wild places are barometers of how healthy our planet is, period.
 
Because out here we run cattle across vast areas and even ranchers who can still afford to have riders can't watch them all the time.
And the range isn't a free givaway. Grazing fees go up all the time and the number of days cattle can be on the range gets less.
Plus the Feds require expensive drift fences to be maintained and then taken down every fall.
A family ranch has a tough time getting much off the FS or BLM lands anymore.

I do understand. The reason you run them over vast areas is because the forage is so poor that it will only sustain a certain head/acre.

I dream of that lifestyle and want to see it preserved. But I dont approve of squeezing out the other life on the public ranges. That's just me, I know.

Raising cattle is very very expensive. I know, I used to do cutting and some roping. I love beef but think that it's price should reflect more of it's production costs. Hard to think that, since I cant afford it often anyway. It's a lifestyle I would never want to see vanish.
 
why don't you go and try to make friends with a wolf pack alone and unarmed? I mean really try.

You know that's been done, right?

See, at least 15 years ago actually.. it was discovered that there are effective ways for farmers, ranchers and the like to keep wolves from preying on their livestock. Without killing anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Ellis_(wolf_researcher)

This guy was on top of it, and educated a few people along the way.
 
When you are older you will realize that it means you got a liberal brainwashing and with effort you could work at Mcdonalds unless you are vegetarian.

Yes.. go tell that to all the engineers and such around here, and the rest of them in the world.

Its ok to disagree, its ok to have a argument.
But please, try to keep it relevant, intelligent and without ungrounded insults.
 
Predators have been plaguing farmers/ranchers since time began. THe govt does not owe you protection from predators, nor does it owe anyone else a job.

You're right.

The government doesn't owe me protection from predators.

All I ask is that they keep thier nose out of it when I decide to deal with a predator and not complain about how I do it.

Biker
 
Shortly before shooting light was up, the wolves came. I heard the first wolf howl and the bugling instantly stopped. All the elk in the pastures we could see disappeared, and my Brother filled his tag with the last cow leaving the meadow. When we were field dressing it those wolves were close, and watching us. just inside the tree line. We caught a couple glimpses of them in the headlights. If I had been alone, I would not have felt safe. even as it was I felt uneasy. They might have been waiting for the gut pile but i doubt they would have waited so long if the trucks lights weren't on and the engine running with 4 of us out there working on that elk.
If I ever have the legal opportunity to shoot a wolf or more I sure will. There's a darn good reason our predecessors got rid of most of them.


Lucky you Ive only seen the Lobo in Zoo's. Even luckier that there are only 27 or so free range in AZ.... I lived in NM when they were released on the border.
 
Wow, one of our posters here saw a handful of the 27 wolves that live "free range" (what are they chickens?) in AZ! [sarcasm] There are undoubtedly a lot more wolves out there. Provided they haven't crossbred themselves out of existence again (what happened to the Red Wolves as I recall from college).

Wolves don't attack humans anymore because for generations we have hunted and killed all the wolves that exhibited that behavior. When we stop doing that, dangerous predators stop seeing us as another top predator and start attacking humans (like the mountain lions in California).

An earlier post showed all the losses to livestock from dogs and coyotes far outstrip wolves. You don't suppose that is because feral dogs, coyotes and hybrids are now endemic in this country, and have replaced the wolves in that niche?

An earlier post also referred to wolves as natural predators and humans as not part of nature - did we come from another planet or dimension?
 
Lots of crazies here, for the person that asked, KSTP had some reports, check 11/10/2011. One guy had 13 500 lb calves killed since august this year. Check USDA claims. lots of them. I guess PETA has invaded here. Sorry, no unicorns here.
 
Wolves eradicate coyotes. Coyotes kill more livestock than any other predator. You're just trading wolves for coyotes. Relax!
 
I agree with Nuclear and Kodiak. Coyotes are all over and dogs do more damage to poeple directly and kill both domestic and wild animals. When I was a kid our dogs started killing my brothers sheep. I had to control them as I was the only one they'd obey so my neighbor could shoot them. My brother was too sick to do it. I was a pretty heartbroken little kid. Not a college course.
 
Biker RN said:
Why we are even discussing wolves is beyond me.
Wolves, like illegal aliens, dopers, and other assorted riff raff should be given a bullet delivered at a high rate of speed regardless of the law, ACLU, or feelings of left leaning tree huggers.
Someone is crossing a line on a map without following the convoluted, arbitrary laws?? KILL THEM AAAALLLL. Get a grip.

captain awesome said:
9mmmare, why is it that you are choosing to ignore the source that I sighted college boy?

You do realize that the days of using "college boy" as an insult are long gone, right?

keeping wolf populations down to a very small number is one of the freedoms I sincerely wish Americans to have.
Freedoms?? What in the world do wolf populations have to do with civil liberties? Are you just using freedom as a catch phrase?

d2wing said:
I hope I am not the first to tell you that other people have been to college too. When you are older you will realize that it means you got a liberal brainwashing
Very low road, my friend. Very low road, and very embarrassing.
 
9mmare, i have never read such drivel as with your posts. It IS documented and you are CHOOSING to ignore it. Good luck to you sir, I am done here.
 
PETA, ACLU and socialist? Of course you ignore references and spout propaganda. No more time for you ladies.
 
People in the lower 48 (aside from Northern MN) have just forgotten what it's like to live with wolves. People in the old days disliked wolves because they killed livestock, but nobody then thought of them as man-killers. That notion comes from Little Red Riding Hood...

As for livestock, I point out again that wolves kill coyotes on sight. Areas with wolves become coyote-free pretty rapidly, so you're just trading one canine predator for another.

The only documented death in the last 100 or so years from a wolf occurred about a year ago. A school teacher in Alaska (from the lower 48) who liked to jog in the wilderness while wearing an Ipod. If you run from predators they chase you. If you do so while wearing an Ipod you're unaware of being chased. It was only surprising that a wolf dragged her down before a bear did.

In the normal course of events, simply picking up a stick will keep wolves away.

School teacher killed by wolves:

http://www.adn.com/2010/03/09/1175725/wolf-blamed-in-death-of-villager.html

http://www.adn.com/2011/12/06/2205617/dna-samples-confirm-wolves-killed.html
 
The USDA chart shown in that news report doesn't give a # but National Fish and Wildlife shows 959 confirmed kills in one year. Unconfirmed claims were much higher. Don't ask me, look it up. That is alot.
 
PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE

In 2001, wolves were only responsible for 1 percent of the cattle and .4 percent of sheep killed by predators.

In 2001, wolves caused the death of approximately three of every 10,000 cattle and 134 of every 10,000 sheep that died from all causes last year in the three states (Source: Ed Bangs, USFWS)

Most Recent Cattle and Calf Losses in Montana
*Note: 1995 is the most recent itemized data available for Other Predators and Non-Predator deaths to Cattle and Calves. There were 10 Cattle confirmed killed in 2000 by wolves.

By WOLVES
1995: 3
(Source: USFWS, Nez Perce Tribe, National Park Service, USDA Wildlife Services. 2001. Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery 2000 Annual Report. USFWS, Helena, MT.)

By OTHER PREDATORS (coyote, dog, lion, bobcat, other predators)
1995: 2,200
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

By NON-PREDATORS (disease, calving, weather, poison, theft, unknown causes)
1995: 77,700
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

2000 Sheep and Lamb Losses In Montana

By Wolves
2000: 2
(Source: USFWS, Nez Perce Tribe, National Park Service, USDA Wildlife Services. 2001. Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery 2000 Annual Report. USFWS, Helena, MT.)

By OTHER PREDATORS (fox, coyote, dog, lion, bobcat, bear, eagle, unknown predators)
2000: 18,900
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

By NON-PREDATORS (disease, lambing complications, weather, poison, unknown causes)
2000: 66,000
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

2001 Livestock Losses in Idaho

By Wolves
10 Cattle
16 Sheep
1 Dog

2001 Wolves controlled in response

7 killed
5 relocated
(Source: USFWS 2001 Annual Wolf Report)

2000 Sheep Losses in Idaho

66% of sheep losses were due to disease, accidents, injuries and weather
34% were due to predator depredations.
Of these depredations, 69% were caused by coyotes, 9% by dogs, 6% by bears, 4% by mountain lions, 2% by foxes, 3% by unknown animals and only 0.4% by wolves.
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture)

Estimated annual livestock losses (Idaho):

Before wolf reintroduction: 12,314 cattle and 9,366 sheep
Since reintroduction: Between 1995 and 1998 in Idaho, wolves killed a total of 15 cattle and 54 sheep
(Source: U.S. Fish & Wildlife statistics, January 1999)


Other Predator 2001 Statistics

In Montana Only:
Coyotes: 2,100 sheep and 12,200 lambs
Domestic dogs: 500 adult sheep and 600 lambs
Eagle: 100 sheep and 1,500 lambs
Bears: 200 sheep and 300 lambs
Mountain lions: 100 sheep and 300 lambs
Diseases, weather, poison, old age and other factors: 38,600 sheep and lambs
(Source: Scott McMillion, Bozeman Chronicle, April 2002)

Yellowstone area
Estimated annual livestock losses from all causes:
Before wolf reintroduction: 8,340 cattle and 12,993 sheep
After reintroduction: Between 1995-98 wolves killed 8 cattle and 84 sheep
(Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife statistics, January 1999)

Interesting Notes for Montana:

In Northwestern Montana, wolf predation accounts for less than .0004% of all predator-caused livestock deaths reported to Animal Damage Control (Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Statistics, January 1999)

From 1987 to 2000:
63 Sheep lost to wolves
(Source: USFWS, Nez Perce Tribe, National Park Service, USDA Wildlife Services. 2001. Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery 2000 Annual Report. USFWS, Helena, MT.)
480,500 Sheep lost to other predators
1,487,000 Sheep lost to non-predator causes
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

From 1987 to 2000:
83 Cattle lost to wolves
(Source: USFWS, Nez Perce Tribe, National Park Service, USDA Wildlife Services. 2001. Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery 2000 Annual Report. USFWS, Helena, MT.)

In 1995 alone:
600 Cattle lost to other predators
79,300 Cattle lost to non-predator causes
(Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, Montana Field Office, Helena, MT)

In January 2002 - MONTANA ONLY
There were 2,450,000 cattle and 335,000 sheep and 84 wolves in the NW MT Recovery area
(Source: Montana Department of Livestock, USFWS 2001 Annual Wolf Report)

Final 2001 Counts for 3 state region
563 total wolves at end of 2001
138 Sheep lost to wolves
40 Cattle lost to wolves
6 Dogs lost to wolves
19 Wolves were killed, 18 others were moved

2002 so far:

(Source: Ed Bangs, USFWS)
34 wolves killed by lethal control actions
2 uncollared Gravelly Pack members near Dillon for sheep (? Amt)
5 Ninemile Pack near Missoula for 4 llamas, 9 sheep and lamb
3 Sheep Mountain + 1 Druid for one CONFIRMED calf
10 Whitehawk (S. Central Idaho) for two sheep, one calf
1 dispersed Chief Joe pack, male (North of Helena) for 9 lambs
1 (unidentified pack??) lone wolf near Livingston, MT. Shot by rancher/wolf feeding on calf
1 Washakie Pack (Wyoming) to reduce packís food requirements
2 Washakie Pack (Wyoming) for "menacing" livestock and 1 cow death, injured another cow
(Over last 2 years, whole pack has killed 3 calves)
1 Yearling (pack?) in Gros Venture drainage for 2 calves
1 Freeze Out Pack female yearling for pair of ewes in the Gravelly Range (killed by rancher)
2 (Not in an organized pack) near Fairfield, Idaho for 5 sheep (just South of Sawtooth Nat. Forest)
2 Ninemile Pack for several sheep
2 Castle Rock Pack (Boulder Pack) south of Avon, MT for several cattle
1 yearling (Pack?) in Gravelly Range for 1 calf (could be Freezeout Pack)



935? if you divide that by 12 states its 75 critters a year per state
 
WoW,,,,Just WOW, Ok first off I'll have to work backwards here a bit

KodiakBeer, that case that you referenced has yet to be proven that it was actually wolves as there were signs of several other predators in the area as well. He was close to a poorly operated garbage area which we all know up there is sheer stupidity in itself.

9mm, while you seem to be a very educated lady, you have a serious problem with your facts. Man has screwed this planet up so badly that, until mother nature shakes the fleas (humans) off her back, this planet will do nothing but go downhill. Reintroduction of the Wolf population to the Yellowstone Park was a serious hiccup (one that has already been admitted to by the officials in charge) because the wolves NATURAL food source is much lower in population than it's natural predation routine will allow for. Wolves were natures perfect population control. They kill more than they need to to feed on. I've SEEN them do this as has many others that have lived in nature not just studied it in some books. Their natural methods just do not conform with the current balance, or rather unbalanced predator/prey populations. A typical pack of 6 to 9 wolves will take down anywhere from 3 to 6 adult or calf elk a day if given the opportunity and even a pack of 9 can NOT consume anywhere near that amount. They are geared this way because, before man came around to screw things up, they were NEEDED to do this to keep the populations of white tail, elk, moose and others in the deer family in check to keep the balance of resources. That balance is now seriously out of whack in most places because of man. Introduction of these perfect hunting machines was fool hardy in the long run and is plainly seen by anyone with enough mind to look beyond the next year.

Now, on to the OP, several have answered correctly in more ways than one on your question. A few of them pointed out that that wolf you saw may have been injured. An injured/sick wolf is a VERY dangerous animal. They can not take down their natural prey and more than likely it was tossed from it's pack so it's alone. It WILL have less fear of a man and will more than likely view a lone individual as an easier target than it's natural prey. I personally would use a bit more caution when sharing the same area that it's been spotted in. As others have also stated, a .357 hit to the chest, head, or neck area would be sufficient to drop a wolf pretty easily. As would a 9mm. If you are confident and accurate with either is what the main goal here would be. I have killed many wolves and most all of them were with a .220swift so they really aren't that hard to kill.

The pictures in that link posted earlier (on the first page of the link) were indeed photoshopped. The largest wolf I have EVER taken (out of 35) was just over 146 pounds. The average of them was in the 100 to 115 pound ranges. I would imagine there are some 200 pound wolves out there MAYBE but I would highly doubt anyone will ever see one in the wild. I am no expert on photo shopping and such, but I would be hard pressed to believe anything like that without laying my hands directly on one. If you looked at the second page from that link, you would see the one draped across the jeep brushguard/hauler. THAT was a nice wolf and probably weighed in around 150 maybe 170.

Caribou (a member here) is probably more familiar with the largest of the wolf species given his location and job ( sustenance hunter Arctic) and he has run across many of them as well. They SEEM much heavier when you try to pick them up because of the slickness of their fur.

Anyway, hope this helps the OP in some reality of wolves. Just use your brain and be cautious.
 
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To the OP, I would suggest a 30-30 rifle to dispatch the wounded animal. Any wounded animal is going to be more dangerous to you and yours in close proximity. I do believe the removal from the indagered species list was a good idea. Between, wolf, yote, and ferral dogs I think we have a big enough predatory population. Not to mention putting a wounded animal out of its missery is the right thing to do.
 
Areas with wolves become coyote-free pretty rapidly, so you're just trading one canine predator for another.

Really?? After living out where there were plenty of BOTH, wolves AND coyotes for 25 years of my life, i find that to NOT be true at all!

DM
 
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