Wolf

[Beaux Nehr]

Cough-Photoshop-Cough.

I doubt it is photoshop. A realistic photoshop is a lot more difficult to produce than it seems. I really doubt a hunter in Alaska could pull it off.
Go ahead and download photoshop, and see if you can reproduce those photos.

To me, and my way of life, illegals are the same as you would view me if I came in uninvited at 0'Dark Thirty. In short they are a threat to me and my way of life.

Biker

What part of "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Do you not understand?
I've never read that as "All men who abide by arbitrary laws set up by governments, and who do not cross imaginary lines on the landscape..."

 

[lyrikz]

Next question.

 

[tarosean]

Next question.

yeah... how many miles into your hike/hunt/etc. will it take you to realize a hand cannon that weighs 100# wasnt the correct answer?

 

[lyrikz]

You guys and your weight. 66 ounces. Its not that bad at all.

 

[Sam1911]

[I've taken quite a lot of pains to clean the non-High Road and homicidal/illegal crud out of this thread. I'd appreciate it y'all could keep it civil so it could live a while longer.]

 

[CZguy]

Mastredons were here on the earth years ago as well. Should we scientificly create a few in a laboratory using DNA from these creatures and reintroduce them to thier native homeland in the Hollywood hills?

Well..............some people would say that might be an improvement.

 

[lyrikz]

Sam, was that me and taro? Or did something get deleted? If it was me, i apologize, you cant disagree that gun would stop a wolf. lol

Back to the original topic.

 

[Sam1911]

Or did something get deleted?

There was a lengthy side-discussion of issues other than wolves which lead to promotion of illegal violence and then a chorus of negative response to that. All of that has been deleted.

 

[roundoff]

Thanks for making the effort, Sam. I am really enjoying this thread and would hate to see it go.

To the OP, I would just say if you are already prepared for cougar, bear, etc., you probably don't need to make any drastic changes to your protection methods.

(full disclaimer: I have absolutely no experience with wolves, but I thought I should address your question if I was bothering to post.)

 

[KodiakBeer]

KodiakBeer, that case that you referenced has yet to be proven that it was actually wolves as there were signs of several other predators in the area as well. He was close to a poorly operated garbage area which we all know up there is sheer stupidity in itself.

Wrong. There were no other predators or tracks - read the 2nd link. The woman was killed by wolves. BUT, she is the only person killed by wolves in at least 100 years. And the circumstances were such that she practically killed herself.

 

[Sam1911]

Since I took the time to read this whole thread, let me just comment on this:

My father and two brothers and I were hunting in the white mountains in AZ last year and found a spot with a large herd of elk, witnessed a spectacular display from less than 50 yards when two large bulls were having it out. There were no less than seven other bulls bugling in the area, it was one of my favorite days of hunting I have ever had. Shortly before shooting light was up, the wolves came. I heard the first wolf howl and the bugling instantly stopped. All the elk in the pastures we could see disappeared, and my Brother filled his tag with the last cow leaving the meadow. When we were field dressing it those wolves were close, and watching us. just inside the tree line. We caught a couple glimpses of them in the headlights. If I had been alone, I would not have felt safe. even as it was I felt uneasy. They might have been waiting for the gut pile but i doubt they would have waited so long if the trucks lights weren't on and the engine running with 4 of us out there working on that elk.

WHAT an incredible experience! What a blessing to have gotten to see that and interact with them in that way. You are incredibly fortunate, and you have something to share with your great-grand-kids of one time you got to participate in REAL LIFE on nature's grand stage.

Finished reading Robert Morgan's Boone: A Biography recently and it really spoke to this. The tension between loving the wilderness and those in it, and destroying it as we explore it, use it, and exploit it. Daniel Boone himself was haunted by the paradox throughout his later life as he could see that the places he'd "opened" were gone because of the intrusion he'd been such a part of making happen.

He spent his whole life fighting wolves and Indians. And at the end of his life he couldn't stand to be in a place that had no wolves and Indians.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Wrong. There were no other predators or tracks - read the 2nd link. The woman was killed by wolves. BUT, she is the only person killed by wolves in at least 100 years. And the circumstances were such that she practically killed herself.

Sorry Kodiak, the link you put up looked familiar and admittedly I didn't click it. I thought it was the one about the Teaching assistant that was killed in Canada a few years ago. My apologies.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Sorry Kodiak, the link you put up looked familiar and admittedly I didn't click it.

No problem. I don't think that event got much press outside of Alaska, but few animal killings do unless a celebrity (Treadwell) is involved.

 

[tarosean]

WHAT an incredible experience! What a blessing to have gotten to see that and interact with them in that way. You are incredibly fortunate, and you have something to share with your great-grand-kids of one time you got to participate in REAL LIFE on nature's grand stage.

This is my point of view. I posted earlier in this thread about having only seen the native Mexican Grey (Lobo) in Zoo's. I would hate for the day to come that my kids/grandkids/great grands cannot see some of these animals in the wild. Nature is an amazing thing that we should cherish it before we destroy it all...

I am not against hunting wolves or managing their numbers. I feel they have just as much right to be here as we do.

 

[bandk]

Re:
The OP saw one wolf, one time. He does not need to add any howitzers to his arsenal. He needs to be aware they are there and keep good track of his pets if he wants to keep them around for long. As far as his family, he'd be better off to be concerned about the icy roads and other accidents doing them harm as statistics have shown the odds of a human getting attacked by a wolf or a pack of wolves in the lower 48 is lower than being hit by a meteorite. Odds are he is more likely to be injured by the gun he is carrying to protect himself than he is to be attacked by wolves. Folks need to be realistic and level headed instead of believing in fairy tales.

With the lifting of wolves from the endangered species list, there will be more seasons and more control on wolf populations. Their numbers, once seasons and control is established will never reach problem numbers again in the lower 48. Once they are hunted again, they will quickly learn to avoid humans or die. This is reality, not Little Red Riding Hood.


reply:

I figured as much but wanted to know if others felt the same. I'm wondering, though, where is the pack?

 

[bandk]

To the OP...

I wouldn't change a damn thing. This is the first time you've seen one, but I'd place a large bet that they've been there before and you never knew it. Just be smart about the obvious (trash, game entrails, pets) and you've got nothing to fear, regardless of what some of these creeps are preaching.

If anything, be joyous in the fact that your SO was lucky enough to catch a glimpse of one of the most elusive creatures in North America.

Thought so

 

[barnetmill]

Wolves have and do still attack people world wide:

John James Audubon ... reported an attack involving 2 Negroes. ... the men were traveling through a part of Kentucky near the Ohio border in winter. Due to the wild animals in the area the men carried axes on the shoulders as a precaution. While traveling through a heavily forested area, they were attacked by a pack of wolves. Using their axes, they attempted to fight off the wolves. Both men were knocked to the ground and severely wounded. One man was killed. The other dropped his ax and escaped up a tree. There he spent the night. The next morning the man climbed down from the tree. The bones of his friend lay scattered in the snow. Three wolves lay dead. He gathered up the axes and returned home with news of the event. This incident occurred about 1830. (Audubon, J.J.. and Bachman,J,: The Quadrupeds of North America. 3 volumes. New York, 1851 - 1854)

Other attacks: http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html Today attacks on humans are extremely rare.
As wolves, coyotes, and dog hybrids become more common such incidents will become a little more common.
For my place to drive off coyotes I will obtain some traditional southern farm bulldogs with large teeth that were originally developed to kill predators in europe that were brought to the the US during colonial times. The original reason for cutting the ears and tails on mastiff type dogs was related to fighting wolves. Now it is done for looks. The theory was if one wolf can grab the tail he can hold the dog while the rest of the pack shreds the dog.

 

[red-demon652]

Remember a shotgun blast to the face will instantly stop any attacker. Taurus Judge.

 

[1911Tuner]

Gray Wolves can get pretty big. They get bigger in captivity because they eat better and lay around more.

Here are some shots of Alaskan Malamutes. Malamutes are genetically the closet thing to wolves in dogdom...1/5th of 1% difference. The smaller, lighter Siberian Husky is 1/2 of 1% removed from the Gray Wolf.

Both breeds exhibit strong wolf-like behavior.







Here is a 125-pound Malamute doing what he was engineered for. Freighting. A 100-pound Alaskan can outpull a much larger, heavier Saint Bernard.

You walk a Malamute on a leash only because he allows you to. Trust me on this.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

LOL 1911, you don't walk them, they walk you!

 

[KodiakBeer]

I can do better than that. I used to own a wolf. I got her as a "rescue" back in the early 90's from a place in Palmer, Alaska (back when that was legal). I used to take her hunting when my son was young and she'd carry up to 50 pounds of fileted deer meat in her pack.

She was a female and weighed about 80 pounds.

 

[barnetmill]

1911tuner: Gray Wolves can get pretty big. They get bigger in captivity because they eat better and lay around more.

Here are some shots of Alaskan Malamutes. Malamutes are genetically the closet thing to wolves in dogdom...1/5th of 1% difference. The smaller, lighter Siberian Husky is 1/2 of 1% removed from the Gray Wolf.

Wolves vary quite a bit depending on where they are found.
Humans differ about 2% from apes and have 23 versus 24 chromosome pairs for apes and were separated no sooner than 5 million years ago and it could be longer.
Dogs are wolves and now days are classed by biologists as a grey wolf subspecies. The Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists in 1993 reclassified the dog from its separate species designation of Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris. The Timber wolf is Canis lupus nubilus, the Mackenzie or Tundra wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis), the dog (Canis lupus familiaris ), etc., fall under the genetic umbrella of the gray wolf: Canis lupus. http://www2.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.htm Apes and people are still not only separate species, but separate genera.

 

[1911Tuner]

Yep, barnet. They do.

Kodiak...Until she died a year ago from sudden onset kidney failure, I had a 25/27 Husky/Wolf hybrid. Best dog that ever sucked air and munched milk bones. Cried like a kid when I lost her, and I miss her every day.

 

[vaherder]

Predators vs Prey

I have been a sheep rancher for almost 10 years now. I have been training herding dogs and livestock guardian dogs even longer

Even the most foo foo dog carried in bag has DNA that is still 99% wolf.

Wolf attacks on humans are incredibly rare and were probably the result of human stupidity.

The closest dog to a wolf is not a sib, Malmute, GSD, Terv, Mal, or Shiloh Shepherd but a Border Collie from working lines not foo foo beauty contest AKC lines. Watch one work with eye notice how the dog controls the sheep with its intense stare and crouch just like wolf. what separates the wolf from domestic dog is prey drive. Border Collies have the most prey drive of any domestic dog breed by a significant margin with the rest of the herding breeds following behind.

Wolves only take what they need they dont kill for fun or sport. If a rancher or turkey farmer is suffering these kind of losses then the problem is domestic or feral dogs. Although sometimes coyotes will teach their yooung how to kill on stock. Another issue for ranchers and poultry farmers is losses to ravens and other large birds.

You have nothing to fear from a wolf. Back last Fall I was Idaho helping a friend work his sheep ranch. His place and leased lands are over a hundred thousand acres and makes my farm look like a urban townhouse lot in comparison. He uses livestock guardian dogs and keeps his sheep and cattle losses to a minimum. Livestock guardian dogs and proper electric fencing and other anti predator tactics work extremely well. On a break my 3 herding dogs and I went for a walk and met part of a wolfpack up close and personal. I am alpha so I had my three dogs lie down behind me and the wolf alpha and I looked each other over. We had a stare down contest. He turned away. Anyone who tells you not to do this with domestic dogs doesnt have a clue. If you turn away first you are telling the dog, wolf or coyote he or she is alpha and thats not a good thing. Ny dogs ahd a great time moving thousands of sheep instead of several hundred.

I dont kill predators unless I absolutely have to. I have eliminated domestic and feral dogs but not coyotes and mountain lions. My LGDs killed a mountain lion over a year ago. I kill a pitbull for looking at me the wrong way. Reducing the predator population causes the prey populations to grow out of control. As a result you see an increase in tick borne diseases like Lyme disease especially in the NE. Deer ticks are the primary cause. Increased deer population increased deer tick population and more Lyme disease for humans and dogs. Ask someone who suffers from chronic Lyme disease if they want more predators? I have treated my dogs for Lyme disease. Increased deer popualtions also mean deer have moved into the suburbs and cities eating destroying billions of dollarss of ornamental plants and causing thousands of collisons. Ask someones whose car ahds been destroyed by a deer or someone who lost a family member to deer/car collison about predators?

LGDs can also guard poultry I know a number of turkey farmers in VA and PA who use them. I have many friends who raise cattle throughout the US who keep their losses to predators to the minimum using LGDs and proper predator management technigues that doesnt involve the slaughter of the predators.

Predators have a vital role in the management of deer, poultry and livestock. Wolves usually go after the weak and diseaseed sheep or cattle first which is a good thing.

I expect gray wolves to reach VA soon sometime in next 5 t 7 years from MI. They found a red wolf in amongst the coyotes they killed over in Montgomery County MD not to long ago. It will reduce the deer population a mangeable level, keep small foo foo dogs and unruly young yuppy human spawn in check

Man has always feared the wolf because the wolf is man's top competitor for prey. I beleive the smartest species on this planet is the domestic dog who ahs trained humans to feed it, house it, provide entertainment, and pick up its poop. I don't fear wolves and would rather meet them a wondering domestic pitbull anyday. Wolves get to move on. Pitbull wont.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i agree about the border collies. i'm on my third one. and hes a pistol. i've played heck keeping them from killing my chickens. this ones got it it seems. just like he protects "his" car and "his" kids he has decided that my hens are his too and he takes care of them . it takes a while to get him to claim things as his but once he does they are protected. i was a bit worried about him and yotes since hes small. but the dead yote in the yard last week tells me he can take care of himself. wish i'd seen that