Would you buy a conventional 9mm carbine?

[cluttonfred]

Since the conceptual bullpup and Owen/Sten 9mm carbines haven't exactly inspired much enthusiasm, how about a conventional wood and steel 9mm carbine, with other auto pistol calibers (.40 S&W, .45 ACP) to follow?

I am just messing around with concepts to see what kind of pistol caliber carbine would appeal to folks that like that category of weapon, since the options now are Hi Point (inexpensive), Kel Tec (not so inexpensive) and a number of semi-auto SMG- and assault rifle-based carbines (expensive).

Please, if you are not a fan of pistol caliber carbines in general, don't repeat your comments here, that's a different thread.

PS--Bonus points to whoever can identify the SMG pic I doctored for this conceptual illustration WITHOUT looking it up on Max P.'s site.

PPS--I added a slightly different version with a shortened receiver, relocated magazine release, and, ahem, a rear sight this time.

 

[Number 6]

Its a PPD40. I would buy one.

 

[cluttonfred]

Nope, not a PPD40, but glad you like it.

 

[ArmedBear]

Nope.

9mm gains nothing ballistically from a carbine barrel. I have 9mm pistols already, and at the ranges where 9mm is a useful cartridge, I can hit the target fine with them.

For plinking, 9mm isn't cheap any more.

However, I do like pistol caliber carbines. .357, .44, .45LC, etc. have more and different powder charges, and that does make a longer barrel worthwhile. .30 Carbine, too, though that's not really a handgun round.

Auto-pistol rounds do not, plain and simple. 9mm is a round that is optimized for its intended purpose: pistols. Works well in them, in a lot of ways. It's compact, which allows for small grip frames and/or high capacity. Recoil is relatively low, while effectiveness with good bullets is excellent. What it's not, and never was meant to be, is a particularly good round for carbines, no matter what their stocks look like.

 

[Ian]

Well, the photo used to be an M/31 Suomi.

I don't think they would be feasible to make any cheaper than current polymer carbines like the Sub-2k or C4X...there's a lot of very nice machine work in a Suomi (I have a parts kit for one). They're also surprisingly heavy for what most people would expect in a 9mm carbine.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I didn't know it was a Suomi - I like the design tho. I have a Marlin Camp 9 (mags from S&W 5900's fit) and like it. I handload for it and it does gain some velocity with the right powder (over pistol velocitys).

 

[SSN Vet]

nope

 

[Frog48]

I'd like one in .45 ACP or .357 Mag, but I have little interest in a 9mm carbine.

 

[Evil Monkey]

I just feel that if it's going to be fired from the shoulder and was not built for the need of concealment, I'd rather have an intermediate rifle cartridge instead of a pistol round.

 

[Geno]

I purchased the Hi Point for just that reason, inexpensive. My intent was to use it around the family farm, specifically in and around the barn. We get a few woodchucks there. A .22LR is fine when they are in the open, but that isn't a good option when they have immediate concealment available. You are correct that many of the 9mm carbines are very expensive. FWIW, I would like to see an inexpensive carbine in 9mm that is more attractive than the Hi Point, but for now, it works for me. Good thread! Thanks.

D0C2005

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

No, 9mm Luger is a handgun cartridge.

 

[Frank Exchange Of Views]

Beretta 38/42 variant - the one with the cross-bolt safety.

FWIW, I think Bernadelli used to build or tried to market a longer barrelled SMG copy of the Beretta 38/42 type SMG.

 

[cluttonfred]

Thanks, all, for the comments, but could we please leave out the bashing of pistol caliber carbines in general?

And, no, it's not a Suomi, no one has guessed right yet.

 

[cluttonfred]

Oops, yes they did, Frank Exchange of Views got it right while I was typing my last message and he wins the fabulous prize of...I'll think of something.

It used to be a pic of a Beretta 38/49. Per Max P.'s site:

BERETTA M1938/49

• Caliber: 9x19mm
• Weight, empty: 3,25 kg
• Length: 798 mm
• Barrel length: 210 mm
• Rate of fire: 550 rounds per minute
• Magazine capacity: 20 or 40 rounds
• Effective range: 150-200 meters

I moved magazine and ejection port back, moved the crossbolt to where you could reach it with your firing hand, extended the barrel to 16" or so and cut off the compensator. Oh, and we only need one trigger.

Here is the original.

 

[Trempel]

I'm not going to try and guess the SMG, but I wouldn't buy one like it. Seems very bulky and heavy. Since we are in the 21st century, a pistol caliber SMG/carbine needs to have a folding or collapsible stock and light weight components made of impact resistant polymer or aluminum. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. If I'm to have something that weighs like a boat anchor, it might as well fire a rifle round.

 

[SaMx]

yes/no/maybe
I like the idea, and if it was affordable I would probably buy one. I have to question the utility of pistol caliber carbines when an intermediate rife caliber could do everything better (except cheaper ammo for short range plinking, but .22 can do that even better)
On the other hand, if it was cheaper than an intermediate caliber rifle it might be worth it.

 

[GigaBuist]

When did Kel-Tecs become expensive? Can you build something for under $300?

 

[lee n. field]

Since the conceptual bullpup and Owen/Sten 9mm carbines haven't exactly inspired much enthusiasm, how about a conventional wood and steel 9mm carbine, with other auto pistol calibers (.40 S&W, .45 ACP) to follow?

A firm "maaaaay-be", in .40 or .45.

 

[ArmedBear]

could we please leave out the bashing of pistol caliber carbines in general?

Where is that?

There are several posts saying, "Not interested in a 9mm carbine", but only one saying "no pistol calibers" and that one was hardly "bashing", just an "if I'm gonna do X, I'd prefer to get Y" post.

Sounds like there's not much interest in this gun, either, but how is that "bashing"?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

"I'd like one in .45 ACP or .357 Mag, but I have little interest in a 9mm carbine." Grant48 beat me to it.

 

[grimjaw]

Owlnmole, you'll find that there isn't much interest in a semi-automatic 9mm carbine specifically and semi-automatic carbines designed around rimless pistol cartridges in general. Lack of utility or power is often cited, and nowadays the cost difference between 9mm and something like an AK is not great. As a matter of fact, if you can score a 5.45x39 AK, you can shoot much cheaper than you can with 9mm. 7.62x39 is close to the same price.

I have a 9mm carbine because my shooting options have diminished since I moved. Honestly, though, it's getting to the point where I might just go the .22LR route for a shoulder fired plinker.

jm

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

No - pistol cal carbines are more or less worthless for real fighting uses for the non-full-auto civilian, relative to an intermediate-cal carbine.

Therefore, their sole purpose in life, which is an important purpose, is FUN!!! Thus, no I wouldn't buy a "conventional" one - I want one that is built to be more FUN than a conventional one. Think bullet hose - calico, suomi, etc. Think bullpup. Anything to make it different/cool/more fun. The bullpup/suomi combo is where it's at, definitely. Or start making Calicos again. Or forget it.

Now, on the other hand. If someone made a PUMP .357 mag, in the "Mare's Leg" configuration - about a 12" bbl - I'd snap that up in a heartbeat.

 

[john917v]

Sure, I'd like one, in .454, to put that stock and fore end to good use, and then, I could also shoot .45s through it. Have a muzzle brake/flash hider, and make it be optic-compatible, with 1911 mags, for the .45s, and single shot for .454, oh, and interchangeable rifle barrels. Bullpup would be neat as well. Yessir, sounds good to me!

 

[Packman]

Well, I've got the Kel-Tec sub2k, and while I like it and plan to keep it, I'd not buy another pistol caliber carbine. It's an ok gun, but I'm not in love with it.

The exception to my rule? A full auto Thompson .45. YEAH! (but I couldn't afford the ammo....)

 

[Jenrick]

Shot a buddy's hi-point today, suckers fun. If they made one in .357 Sig I'd be ordering one right now. No bas they don't though.

-Jenrick