Would you gripe at a cop about poor muzzle control?

[Owen]

It depends. Are they in the process of arresting you for a felony at the time?

 

[NewColonial]

At the unsupervised, but private, range I shoot at, LEO's are the biggest breakers of safety and clean up rules. I believe it's a matter of arrogance rather than ignorance.

 

[ChCx2744]

MinnMooney:

from "Officer'sWife" :
Quote:
HOW DARE YOU?????

LEO's are given the authority by the state to put any person in deadly risk for any reason. They know far better than you!
I'm with kingpin (post #12)- I sincerely hope that you are kidding but I haven't seen you make a second appearance to defend such a ridiculus(sp?) remark.

Added later : I missed your post #33 just before mine.
Quote:
Is this cop bashing really necessary?
Most of the posts seem to much more thought-out than the flying-off-the-handle remarks that you've made.... and afterall, you did start this line of discussion.

Quote:
Their two hours of hit or miss training makes them far more qualified than your constant practice and familiarity!
This doesn't even make sense. Many folks on THR have had extensive training in and out of the military, LE and privately. Some have had none. I've compared my training and general time around firearms to 2 of my neighbors who are in LE (county & city) and they are both envious and wish their departments would spring for double or triple the amount that they get. Frankly, so do I!

She was joking coolguy.

 

[bigalexe]

Not muzzle control but I really wanted to tell an off-duty (as evidenced by the Pacifica he was driving) Border Patrol officer (as evidenced by his white, B.P. shirt) that he should really not carry his gun around gas pumps. He was not working, therefore probably not in immediate danger and so I don't see why its necessary that he open carry a combustible object while fueling a vehicle.

 

[NewColonial]

He was not working, therefore probably not in immediate danger and so I don't see why its necessary that he open carry a combustible object while fueling a vehicle.

Huh?
None of us can predict when we'll be in danger. If I could do that I'd never carry, I'd just stay home when I knew danger was in my future.

I've never considered my gun a "combustible object". It's certainly not any more combustible OC than CC.

Edit: Okay, sarcasm? Hmm.

 

[ChaoSS]

I understand the point about how we can't just treat cops as if they will simply arrest us for talking to them. That being said, the type of officer who blatantly violates safety laws is more likely to be the type who thinks he is god, as he doesn't care about anyone else around him. Thus, I would think that he is more likely to be the type that doesn't take well to correction.

 

[f4t9r]

i would be calm and polite. Just let them know what happened.
I agree with picking your battles wisely.

 

[Officers'Wife]

the type of officer who blatantly violates safety laws is more likely to be the type who thinks he is god, as he doesn't care about anyone else around him.

Choas, that statement is in direct violation of 'the Government Knows Best Act.' Please cease and desist. The office of enforcement is not now and never has been safety of the citizen. Only to ensure and protect the power of the state.

 

[MinnMooney]

In the scenerio described - retail store with (I presume, witnesses) I'd treat him just as I would any other person how swings a gun in my direction. I'd certainly let him know that I saw the infraction and that I wasn't pleased. After that, it would entirely depend on his response as to whether I carried it any further, i.e., calling his office and letting them know how cavalier one of their officers is with a dangerous weapon.

that statement is in direct violation of 'the Government Knows Best Act.'

I suppose so.

Please cease and desist.

No!

 

[Sam1911]

that he should really not carry his gun around gas pumps. He was not working, therefore probably not in immediate danger and so I don't see why its necessary that he open carry a combustible object while fueling a vehicle.

Yet another case of sarcasm not translating well over the internet?

Then again...folks have some strange ideas! Never met anyone who disarmed to approach a gas pump, though! LOL!

-Sam

 

[pbearperry]

I have been on my way into stores that had glass doors and all I could see was the reflection of the sky behind me.Maybe the cop did not see you on the other side?Or maybe he is just careless?

 

[jon_in_wv]

A cop is a man like any other. Sometimes they handle those weapons so much they start getting lax with safety. I would POLITELY remind him that he should keep his muzzle in a safe direction. If he gets smart I would consider a formal complaint.

 

[GEM]

1. It is very easy on the Internet to proclaim that you will tell an officer this or that.

2. If you study police, you have no idea what is going on in that officer's mind at the moment. Taking a 'defensive stance' might lead the shotgun to assume an aggressive stance at you. If you speak strongly, they aren't going to listen to the content - they look for the threat - esp. if you start talking about their firearms.

3. Get real - stop huffing and puffing. Get out of the way and THEN you might use the appropriate channels to express your concerns to the higher authorities.

This might offend those who want to be righteous. I'm being practical.

 

[the foot]

Come on ya'll - law enforcement officers are our neighbors, friends, BILs, etc.

Gun safety is an issue in every gun-toting area of our country. Don't treat the LEO different from anyone else; if he is unsafe tell him and then move on. Treat him like you would treat any other member of the community and don't pile on.

Don't be afraid of any LEO, just make sure he knows he is welcome as a member of the community. If he doesn't fit in, do your best to get him fired. That works.

 

[inSight-NEO]

In this particular case, I probably would have let it go...LEO or not. I mean, we all get careless and/or a bit too casual at one point or another...LEOs are no different I would imagine. After all, we are all only human.

Now, if this were a regular occurance (same individual), then I would take the initiative to politely make him/her aware of such weapon handling. Again, this would go for LEO or not.

 

[Art Eatman]

I get sorta cranky when any gun is carelessly pointed at me. I upset an entire courtroom--and got some giggles--when as a juror I climbed all over the prosecuting attorney for getting goosey with the "murder weapon", a .38 snubbie. The judge instructed the prosecutor to see it my way.

 

[inSight-NEO]

I get sorta cranky when any gun is carelessly pointed at me.

Agreed. But, sometimes you need to pick your battles. I mean, how many of us can honestly say we have NEVER been careless with muzzle trajectory?

Now, maybe (in this particular situation) saying something like "Whoa there friend! Im in no hurry to be a unic!" or similar, may have been a light-hearted way of approaching a reprimand. But, it sounds like the event happened (and passed) quickly. Therefore, any reprimand would have to come "after the fact." If one is comfortable with such a situation, then I say go for it.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I pick to battle when someone points a loaded weapon at me. Something should be said. Not all cops are jack booted thugs that can't take criticism. I'd say very few are. I sense a LOT of cynicism in this room.

 

[Riss]

In that situation yes, a polite, "sir, if you would mind not pointing your gun at me I would appreciate it very much, thank you", would not be offensive. However if he was going in for an active shooter incident, I would be happy enough that it was not pointed at my head or chest.

 

[ChaoSS]

I pick to battle when someone points a loaded weapon at me. Something should be said. Not all cops are jack booted thugs that can't take criticism. I'd say very few are. I sense a LOT of cynicism in this room.

Again, most of the cops who would be more likely to ignore safety rules are the ones with their heads way up in no man's land, and are the type who would give you hassle for correcting them.

Not all, certainly. But I think it's fair to say that it is more likely.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I think its a LOT more likely he was careless or unaware rather than to make the leap that he just doesn't care and he is pointing his weapon at people out of pure arrogance and indifference to safety.

 

[ChaoSS]

Perhaps. Perhaps those who are careless are those who just don't care about others, who think, at their deepest levels, that they are above the rules, above everyone else.

Again, it's only a generalization, a remark about what is more likely.

I'm not trying to suggest that any cop who is careless about where he points his weapon is going to arrest you under false pretenses for pointing it out.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have been on the wrong end of poor muzzle discipline so many times it does not matter anymore. I dont ever get bent up about it. I take an assessment of the people who are doing it though and if they seem competent then I turn my back and dont worry about it. Im not some tough guy looking to get hurt either. I am just trying to live as stress free of a life as possible and that has evolved into not caring about much of anything including my own safety. I agree I have a whacked out set of priorities but it is just me and you probably wouldnt be much different having walked a similar path.

That said though, I always make sure I am observing the proper rules of muzzle discipline out of respect for others more than anything.

 

[chuckusaret]

Gun safety is a must and must be practiced at all times. Check out the pictures of our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, they practice muzzle discipline at all times. Just because a person is a LEO or a soldier in combat it does not give them the right to endanger anyone because of poor weapons safety practices.
The LEO mentioned should have been made aware that his poor muzzle discipline could have caused injuries to innocent people.

 

[Speedo66]

It has unfortunately been my experience after 40 years in law enforcement that many LEOs have no concept of proper muzzle discipline. I've also seen several negligent discharges by officers.

I used to work with an officer who would regularly think pointing his gun at brother officers was a big joke.

He did it to me once, and I told him if he ever pointed his gun at me again I would take it as an attempt by him to shoot me and I would take whatever action I deemed necessary including drawing on him and shooting. I said it with other officers present and told him I now had witnesses.

It didn't stop him from still doing it to other officers but he took me seriously and never did it to me again.

Unless an officer is pointing his gun as part of his duties, i.e., an arrest or a serious stop, I would certainly tell him or her to watch where the hell they're pointing it.