Your opinion on a standard service caliber for NATO.

[tryshoot]

Ideally whould like to see 40sw. Whould keep 9mm. People who discount 9mm might not have seen what it can do. 5.7 is very interesting thought. Some nato military have 45 acp.

 

[meanmrmustard]

I'd like to see a thread built here that has us vote on a list of calibers that NATO should adopt (including keeping the 9mm). That would be very interesting.

 

[Trevorusn]

I've worked for many years with every small-arm caliber the Navy uses, and I see no need to switch out from the 9mm. The Armed Forces uses a +P load for the 124gr round, and this packs quite a bit of punch, even with the need to use FMJ bullets it has over 400 ft.-lbs. of energy at the muzzle. Should we use HP?? Of course!!! The fact we "regulate" the damage done to enemy combatants never made sense to me. But switch out from the 9mm?? Not really necessary or needed, the 9mm is a good, cheap, versatile round and, despite what some may say, does indeed pack a good punch.

 

[gopguy]

Sorry guys, you can't use hollowpoints it violates the Hague convention...

 

[razorback2003]

9mm is cheap and it works. A handgun is a support gun in the military. There is nothing wrong with the caliber or the Beretta. The Beretta is a safe handgun with the hammer, safety and decocker.

 

[Trevorusn]

Sorry guys, you can't use hollowpoints it violates the Hague convention...

Oh, I'm well aware of this. But it still doesn't really make sense, as the point of fighting is to kill the other guy before he kills you. And insurgents have no qualms about using HPs if they can get them.

 

[Nordeste]

FMF Doc:
Also, many countries that blur the line between police and military use SMGs in the NATO standard 9mm. This would require then get not just new pistols, but all new firearms. 9mm works, but works better with some good JHPs. I say we just bring ammo technology up to pistol technology.

Fully agreed on the black part.

My country, for example, plus Italy, France, Portugal and The Netherlands. In each of these countries you find law enforcement agencies that have a military nature/background. France has her Gendarmerie Nationale, the Italians their Carabinieri, the Portuguese their Guardia Nacional Republicana, the Dutch have their Marechausée and we have our Guardia Civil. Each of these agencies operate at what you would call "federal" level and are fully competent agencies, in the sense that they can carry out any task possible in law enforcement, plus others like rescue and salvage in mountain/maritime environments and other military-related tasks like MP, intel or military criminal investigations.

That doesn't mean these agencies use always FMJ, although it's quite widespread in Europe, and not only in those agencies. There's some reluctance (a pointless one) in Europe to the use of JHP. They are known to cause more damage and that is stupidly politically incorrect. The 9mm FMJ, nonetheless, is capable of doing the job perfectly if placed properly. The bad news is over penetration and ricochets. I remember a video footage of a bank robbery in our Mediterranean coast where the bad guy took two 9mm FMJ hits, one to the hand, the other one to the chest, close to the heart area. Went down like a sack.