NM Blackhawk or Uberti El Patron in 45 Colt?

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35 Whelen said:
I think a little perspective is in order, Max.

Yes, a Ruger is a better hunting revolver than a Colt repro, just like a compound bow is better than a longbow, an in-line muzzle loader is better than a flintlock, and a scoped Remington 700 is better than an 1873 Winchester. I personally have never understood someone seeking the challenge of hunting with a handgun, a bow or a muzzle loader, then pushing that technology to the edge with pullies, cables, scopes, synthetic stocks, sabots, sights that require batteries, and revolvers that weigh nearly as much as carbines and have to be carried in special rigs, but to each his own. Likewise, I'm sure you don't understand why anyone would want to take to the field with a fixed sighted revolver, a longbow or a flintlock, but again to each his own. We don't all feel the need to hunt with huge revolvers chambered in cartridges whose chamber pressure exceeds that of many rifle cartridges, but I support those who do.

This is the sixth hunting season I've used a Uberti of some flavor to take at least part of our annual venison supply, and I get an enormous amount of satisfaction out of doing so, much more than I would with the Blackhawk that sits idle in my safe.

35W
Click to expand...

You’ve misread me entirely. I have nothing against the various SAA replicas. You push the technology because we have made strides forward. We know more and make better equipment and components. Also, when you venture beyond 120-lb whitetails to game that is more tenacious and/or capable of hurting you, you would be well served by stepping up. Even with whitetail I like loads that don’t merely poke a hole. If I don’t have to track, I am happy. I also prefer adjustable sights for obvious reasons even though I have no issues with fixed-sighted revolvers. I’m applaud your choice, but to deny that the Ruger is the more practical and versatile choice is intellectually dishonest. The .45 Colt can be sooooo much more.

As far as using optics are concerned, this is a function of vision quality. When you exceed a certain age, your up-close vision takes a walk. My eyes are 20-15 and 20-20, but I need reading glasses up close. Have you ever hunted with reading glasses? It’s HARD and not something I recommend doing when game is dangerous. So yes, it is a matter of perspective.
 
It really depends on how you're gonna use it. I don't choose one gun over another, any more than I choose one cartridge over another. I own and love them all and they're all different tools in the toolbox. For a packin' pistol, general woods loafin' or just plinking, there is absolutely nothing wrong with either choice and the SAA replica fills the need as well as the Ruger. We don't have bears or Cape buffalo around here so I carry an SAA or similar quite often. They are much more pleasant on the hip and a 250gr at 900fps is plenty for anything I'll encounter. A Uberti was the first handgun I bought with my own money 33yrs ago and I have a soft spot for them. Which is why I have nearly two dozen of them and spent so much to have one engraved and fitted with a thousand dollars worth of ivory. They're good guns and usually accurate.

For a dedicated hunting sixgun, if you just want to explore "Ruger only" territory or if there is a possibility to encounter the great brown bears of the north, you might want a Ruger and everything it offers. Loadwise, it will do all the SAA will and a lot more.

Uberti's are available with a .45ACP cylinder and the .45ACP is proofed at 33,000psi. The .45Colt at 22,000psi. So an SAA is probably not gonna grenade with a "Ruger only" load but it sure wouldn't like it long term.
 
Guys, I’m not trying to be combative, I just like options and the versatility the Ruger affords the shooter. I have owned Ubertis in the past and likely will in the future, but they have a very limited use for me

I doubt it would grenade, but I will bet ducks to donuts I could stretch a Uberti in short order shooting some of my standard Ruger loads. They are fine for light loads, but I prefer something more decisive even for deer. But that’s just me. And half a pound weight difference isn’t enough to dissuade me from carrying a gun and if it is, well, I have bigger issues then.
 
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Hmmmm . . . my gun is bigger and heavier than your gun!! Lol. Mine is a 1st mod. Dragoon (Uberti) converted to .45C . It's my "shop" and "home protection" (well first defense anyway, same property). I just like big revolvers . . . It's actually one of the most accurate revolvers I've ever owned. It doesn't need (for me) to shoot RO loads to have my confidence as a defense weapon ( I have neighbors that I like so no need to endanger them too!). Defense loads are just fine from its 7 1/2" bbl. So, for my needs, this is an excellent fit even though I know RO (or your standard Ruger loads) would definitely destroy it . . . definitely no bet from me!!

Mike
 
MaxP said:
You’ve misread me entirely. I have nothing against the various SAA replicas. You push the technology because we have made strides forward. We know more and make better equipment and components. Also, when you venture beyond 120-lb whitetails to game that is more tenacious and/or capable of hurting you, you would be well served by stepping up. Even with whitetail I like loads that don’t merely poke a hole. If I don’t have to track, I am happy. I also prefer adjustable sights for obvious reasons even though I have no issues with fixed-sighted revolvers. I’m applaud your choice, but to deny that the Ruger is the more practical and versatile choice is intellectually dishonest. The .45 Colt can be sooooo much more.

As far as using optics are concerned, this is a function of vision quality. When you exceed a certain age, your up-close vision takes a walk. My eyes are 20-15 and 20-20, but I need reading glasses up close. Have you ever hunted with reading glasses? It’s HARD and not something I recommend doing when game is dangerous. So yes, it is a matter of perspective.
Click to expand...

But see that's just it, some of us get enjoyment out of not pushing technology. Again, flintlock vs. in-line, longbow vs. compound bow, etc. It doesn't have to be a "My method/tool is better than yours" sort of thing. And I think it bears remembrance that men have successfully defended themselves from nasty critters for over a century with the original 45 Colt load (see SIXGUNS pp. 73, 127, 128, et al).

On the subject of practical, again, perspective is in order. Were I JUST hunting with a handgun, yep, a Ruger would probably be better, at least where sight picture is concerned, but I personally have little use for specialized hunting firearms; I like utility. In my day-to-day, I think of handguns as tools that are carried much like a pair of fencing pliers, and I enjoy being proficient with my tools. So, wearing a large, cumbersome revolver while doing chores, fencing, feeding cattle or walking the pastures is out of the question. This is the rig and revolver I carried around here for 2 or 3 years and even as trim as it is, it's been snagged in barbed wire fences, banged on pipe corrals and seen its share of mesquite thorns and brush.

Uberti%20.44%20Holster%20Belt_zpsmx001ijy.jpg

A large frame revolver in these situations would be wholly impractical. Therein lies the versatility and comfort of svelte Colt style SA. No bulky frame, no sights perched high on top of it. So that 's my idea of versatility. If I'm taking game every year with my Colt-style SA's, why would I want to change???

Yes, the 45 Colt can be more, but for most of us it's simply not necessary. And on the subject of the 45 Colt, I do have a twisted confession to make. In my thread Ballistic Gel Guru's and Bullet Performance Guys, etc.- Any Idea What Bullet Did This??? I had hoped to invoke some discussion from the fellows who'd rather look at blocks of gelatin and discuss kinetic energy than see what bullets really do in flesh and bone. The wounds pictured are from a deer I shot with my Uberti Frisco (45 Colt) about three weeks ago. (I need to go back to the thread and fess up ;)) By the time the 288 gr. cast SWC (RCBS 45-270SAA) had travelled the 41 yds. to its target, it had slowed to around 940 fps. I was quite impressed with the wound channel from a non-expanding bullet lumbering along less than 950 fps. I shot, heard the bullet smack, and curiously watched a white tuft of hair float to the ground as the buck bolted. No tracking either...just walked through the mesquites and thigh-high broomweeds and found him maybe 25 yds. away, stone cold dead. But if someone gets their giggles slinging large chunks of lead at soft skinned game, more power to 'em. For years I watched hunters poleax the small Edwards Plateau deer with all variety of 7mm and .30 caliber belted magnums, so I'm pretty numb to it.

Vision and sights? I'm about to be 57 and have worn readers for about 10 years now. I guess I'm blessed because I can still see all but the thinnest front sights on short barrels. I can't imagine trying to shoot with readers...

MaxP said:
Guys, I’m not trying to be combative, I just like options and the versatility the Ruger affords the shooter. I have owned Ubertis in the past and likely will in the future, but they have a very limited use for me

I doubt it would grenade, but I will bet ducks to donuts I could stretch a Uberti in short order shooting some of my standard Ruger loads. They are fine for light loads, but I prefer something more decisive even for deer. But that’s just me. And half a pound weight difference isn’t enough to dissuade me from carrying a gun and if it is, well, I have bigger issues then.
Click to expand...

Why sure....no one's arguing that Uberti's won't stand Ruger-only loads, but again what's the need in them?

35W
 
So about 30 min ago I strolled through the door with a new 45 Colt.
After reading everyone's posts I decided that I would purchase which ever one I saw first.
Well, I ended up with the Uberti El Patron.
CCH with the 4.75 inch barrel.
I am super pumped about this because I have wanted one for so long.
My wife wouldn't let me shoot it tonight even though my pistol range is well lit because that might scare the neighbors at 10pm.
I can't wait to shoot it tomorrow.
 
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ontarget said:
So about 30 min ago I strolled through the door with a new 45 Colt.
After reading everyone's posts I decided that I would purchase which ever one I saw first.
Well, I ended up with the Uberti El Patron.
CCH with the 4.75 inch barrel.
I am super pumped about this because I have wanted one for so long.
My wife wouldn't let me shoot it tonight even though my pistol range is well lit because that might scare the neighbors at 10pm.
I can't wait to shoot it tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Pictures please!!

35W
 
I will try to get some pics.
But first I must burn some powder.
The action on this revolver is super smooth as I expected.
According to Uberti the El Patron model comes factory tuned including Wolff springs.
My 357 version has been flawless. I suspect this one will be too.
 
Only got to put 12 rounds down the pipe before my wife dragged me out of the house this morning. Didn't get back until dark so hopefully some range time for tomorrow.
Now I'm not sure how the recoil should feel but this 45 felt much softer than my El Patron in 357.
These were however 250gn cowboy loads. It's the only factory loads the store had.
 
35 Whelen said:
But see that's just it, some of us get enjoyment out of not pushing technology. Again, flintlock vs. in-line, longbow vs. compound bow, etc. It doesn't have to be a "My method/tool is better than yours" sort of thing. And I think it bears remembrance that men have successfully defended themselves from nasty critters for over a century with the original 45 Colt load (see SIXGUNS pp. 73, 127, 128, et al).

On the subject of practical, again, perspective is in order. Were I JUST hunting with a handgun, yep, a Ruger would probably be better, at least where sight picture is concerned, but I personally have little use for specialized hunting firearms; I like utility. In my day-to-day, I think of handguns as tools that are carried much like a pair of fencing pliers, and I enjoy being proficient with my tools. So, wearing a large, cumbersome revolver while doing chores, fencing, feeding cattle or walking the pastures is out of the question. This is the rig and revolver I carried around here for 2 or 3 years and even as trim as it is, it's been snagged in barbed wire fences, banged on pipe corrals and seen its share of mesquite thorns and brush.

View attachment 882170

A large frame revolver in these situations would be wholly impractical. Therein lies the versatility and comfort of svelte Colt style SA. No bulky frame, no sights perched high on top of it. So that 's my idea of versatility. If I'm taking game every year with my Colt-style SA's, why would I want to change???

Yes, the 45 Colt can be more, but for most of us it's simply not necessary. And on the subject of the 45 Colt, I do have a twisted confession to make. In my thread Ballistic Gel Guru's and Bullet Performance Guys, etc.- Any Idea What Bullet Did This??? I had hoped to invoke some discussion from the fellows who'd rather look at blocks of gelatin and discuss kinetic energy than see what bullets really do in flesh and bone. The wounds pictured are from a deer I shot with my Uberti Frisco (45 Colt) about three weeks ago. (I need to go back to the thread and fess up ;)) By the time the 288 gr. cast SWC (RCBS 45-270SAA) had travelled the 41 yds. to its target, it had slowed to around 940 fps. I was quite impressed with the wound channel from a non-expanding bullet lumbering along less than 950 fps. I shot, heard the bullet smack, and curiously watched a white tuft of hair float to the ground as the buck bolted. No tracking either...just walked through the mesquites and thigh-high broomweeds and found him maybe 25 yds. away, stone cold dead. But if someone gets their giggles slinging large chunks of lead at soft skinned game, more power to 'em. For years I watched hunters poleax the small Edwards Plateau deer with all variety of 7mm and .30 caliber belted magnums, so I'm pretty numb to it.

Vision and sights? I'm about to be 57 and have worn readers for about 10 years now. I guess I'm blessed because I can still see all but the thinnest front sights on short barrels. I can't imagine trying to shoot with readers...



Why sure....no one's arguing that Uberti's won't stand Ruger-only loads, but again what's the need in them?

35W
Click to expand...


Let me preface this by saying I am not being combative, I just want the opportunity to explain my choices. I am viewing this purely from a versatility standpoint, not one based on nostalgia or emotion. Let's play the what-if game.
-What if funds are limited dictating the purchase of one firearm?
-What if lots of load/bullet experimentation is on the menu and well you have trouble finding one that'll shoot to the sights?
-What if you decide to not limit your activities to paper punching and plinking but want to hunt? We've already established the efficacy of the lower-power loads on deer, but what if you want to step the game up to let's say elk, moose or whatever? Now what? Those Ruger-only loads are starting to look real good about now.

As far as "bulky" is concerned, according to Ruger's website a 4 5/8-inch Blackhawk weighs in at 39 ounces empty - that's 2.43 pounds. That's probably only a couple ounces more than an SAA knockoff. In other words, not enough of a difference to really take notice or to constitute bulky IMHO.

I don't test in blocks of gelatin. We established the Bovine Bash five years ago to test bullets/loads from revolvers at the extremes to see how they perform, so I'm fairly well-versed in terminal ballistics and have made a career out of myth-busting some of the dogma associated with conventional wisdom in hunting circles. I have used everything from mouse-fart level loads to fire-breathing, high pressure loads and everything in between on everything from whitetail, to wild hogs, to black bear, mountain lion and moose to name but a few species. I have a pretty good idea what works well and what I won't use anymore.

You don't need to redline the .45 Colt for it to be an effective killer, but you would serve yourself well being able to really test and fine tune load development with a sighting system that isn't fixed.

Am I overthinking this? I don't think so as there is a real practicality to my reasoning. However, judging by your post I can see that you too have taken the time to establish what you consider versatile. More power to you.
 
MaxP said:
You don't need to redline the .45 Colt for it to be an effective killer, but you would serve yourself well being able to really test and fine tune load development with a sighting system that isn't fixed.
Click to expand...

I like Max's line of thinking. I don't doubt the ability of my 5.5" Colt SAA .45 to humanely take a deer at appropriate distances, but I just don't have faith in my ability to place the bullet properly given the limitations of the primitive sights (and my gun is nickel, making sighting matters worse).

I dream of having a perfect Colt flat top, but that's out of my budget. A Blackhawk does fit that budget, though.
 
MaxP said:
Let me preface this by saying I am not being combative, I just want the opportunity to explain my choices. I am viewing this purely from a versatility standpoint, not one based on nostalgia or emotion. Let's play the what-if game.
-What if funds are limited dictating the purchase of one firearm?
-What if lots of load/bullet experimentation is on the menu and well you have trouble finding one that'll shoot to the sights?
-What if you decide to not limit your activities to paper punching and plinking but want to hunt? We've already established the efficacy of the lower-power loads on deer, but what if you want to step the game up to let's say elk, moose or whatever? Now what? Those Ruger-only loads are starting to look real good about now.

As far as "bulky" is concerned, according to Ruger's website a 4 5/8-inch Blackhawk weighs in at 39 ounces empty - that's 2.43 pounds. That's probably only a couple ounces more than an SAA knockoff. In other words, not enough of a difference to really take notice or to constitute bulky IMHO.

I don't test in blocks of gelatin. We established the Bovine Bash five years ago to test bullets/loads from revolvers at the extremes to see how they perform, so I'm fairly well-versed in terminal ballistics and have made a career out of myth-busting some of the dogma associated with conventional wisdom in hunting circles. I have used everything from mouse-fart level loads to fire-breathing, high pressure loads and everything in between on everything from whitetail, to wild hogs, to black bear, mountain lion and moose to name but a few species. I have a pretty good idea what works well and what I won't use anymore.

You don't need to redline the .45 Colt for it to be an effective killer, but you would serve yourself well being able to really test and fine tune load development with a sighting system that isn't fixed.

Am I overthinking this? I don't think so as there is a real practicality to my reasoning. However, judging by your post I can see that you too have taken the time to establish what you consider versatile. More power to you.
Click to expand...

I picked up the Uberti with the caveat that if I ever do decide to hunt with a handgun I will be able to put in the time and study to choose an appropriate gun at the the time.
I feel like a 454 Casull would be more in line with an "only 1 hunting handgun".
I'm not ready to go there yet.
It's a possibility down the road but right now I'm just planning to kill a lot of tin cans.
 
This is really the concept of "packin' pistols" versus hunting guns. Major part of it is choosing the right tool for the job. Choosing which tools are in the toolbox is highly subjective. Sometimes you choose the right tool for the job. Sometimes you just carry whatever the hell you want and need only justify it to yourself. I do all of the above. I have revolvers capable of taking everything from squirrels to elephant with lots of overlap in between. I wouldn't take my Single Six to Africa any more than I would my .500 on a squirrel hunt.

For perspective, I live on 16acres where I can walk all day with a sixgun strapped to my person and shoot all day without issue. My family also owns over 200acres in this county. If I want to spend all day wandering the woods, I am free to do so. Most the time, my sidearm needs only to be my chosen companion for the day and I often prefer to be prepared for what Keith referred to as "targets of opportunity". Those targets are up to and including deer. No elk. No moose. No bears. The fact is that if you're killing critters no bigger than deer no further than 50yds away, a "Ruger only" .45Colt is no more effective than a .44Spl or .45Colt out of a Colt SAA or equivalent. I know because I've taken more deer and hogs with loads ranging from 200-275gr cast bullets at under 1200fps than anything above and beyond. So for these purposes a 4¾" Colt SAA (or replica), 4 5/8" mid-frame Ruger, 4" N-frame, or any of a plethora of similarly sized sixguns work perfectly well. And if I'm honest, that's 'how' I wanna do it. I could carry a big Ruger but why? Of course, we run into this all the time in .44Spl vs .44Mag discussions.

I'll also choose something along those lines if I'm hunting with a rifle, which is more often than not a traditional flintlock.

If I'm deliberately hunting with a handgun or in territory where there might be bigger critters, I'll choose something more potent.

Some of my packin' pistols:

5" GP .44Spl
002b_1.jpg

Pair of .45's
IMG_9243b.jpg

Pair of .44Spl's
IMG_9572b.jpg

A K-38? Absolutely!
IMG_6658b.jpg

Colt .38-40
IMG_5480b.jpg

629MG
IMG_5419b.jpg

Custom Ruger .44Spl and USFA Rodeo II .38
IMG_8074b.jpg
 
CraigC said:
A wise man once said, everything is relative. Ya know how you daily carry a 3" N-frame instead of one of your hunting guns? Same concept. ;)
Click to expand...

No, not the same thing as you all aren't carrying your SAA clones concealed...we're talking field carry.

In the immortal words of Clint Smith (and I paraphrase): "Carrying a gun isn't supposed to be comfortable, it's supposed to be comforting..."
 
I didn't say it was the same thing. It's the same concept.

Carrying a Colt SAA when it covers everything I need it to is plenty comforting and more comfortable than a 50oz Ruger. What is a "Ruger only" .45Colt going to do that Colt SAA loads will not?
 
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I dunno. Never thought a few ounces either way made something not able to be carried. My alaskans are smaller than many of those revolvers posted craig. Might weigh a bit more perhaps, maybe not. Not sure the weight matters. More of the foot print that matters. Then again, my glock 20 is imminently more packable than most single actions, carries more, and is more powerful than most of the above so i guess from a practicality standpoint, im covered until i need more power. Then i need a bigger gun
 
CraigC said:
I didn't say it was the same thing. It's the same concept.

Carrying a Colt SAA when it covers everything I need it to is plenty comforting and more comfortable than a 50oz Ruger. What is a "Ruger only" .45Colt going to do that Colt SAA loads will not?
Click to expand...


Well, i know they kill better in marginal shots or really any lung shot not through the heart. What they do not do is conjure up fantasies of riding side saddle behind the lone ranger or tonto. I do know an fa83 doesnt go with a fake sheriff’s badge or a leather vest near as well as any of the original colt or colt clone single actions.
 
Tradmark said:
Well, i know they kill better in marginal shots or really any lung shot not through the heart. What they do not do is conjure up fantasies of riding side saddle behind the lone ranger or tonto. I do know an fa83 doesnt go with a fake sheriff’s badge or a leather vest near as well as any of the original colt or colt clone single actions.
Click to expand...
And now we have gone beyond the boundaries of normal, friendly discussion. Which queues my exit. Now excuse me while I strap on my Ruger GP100 in a Tom Threepersons holster and go for a walk, pretending to be Roy Rogers......or something. Hopefully I don't get charged by a hippo or a gang of injuns on the way down to the crick. :confused:
 
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