Just to annoy certain people.You'll pay more for the better bloom? Why's that?
Just to annoy certain people.You'll pay more for the better bloom? Why's that?
Yup. XTPs are an oldie but a goodie.I still tend to prefer the XTPs over anything else, just because they seem to penetrate best, and I never carry any short barreled guns. They've been highly regarded by handgun hunters for years.
I meant more in terms of resisting deflection against hard barriers. The pdx1 has a very tough nose profile with rather sharp edges. This seems to lend it a lot of hoop strength, which explains why it is driven to such high velocities in factory loadings and still fails in some tests. The gold dot isn't bad either.Both PDX and Gold Dot penetrated three gallon jugs of water, but the Gold Dot poked a hole in the fourth, knocked it over, and sent the first flying over all of them.
Yeah, I didn't try shooting through anything with resistance other than water. I just wanted to see what the petals looked like. I've heard nothing but good about the PDX.I meant more in terms of resisting deflection against hard barriers. The pdx1 has a very tough nose profile with rather sharp edges. This seems to lend it a lot of hoop strength, which explains why it is driven to such high velocities in factory loadings and still fails in some tests. The gold dot isn't bad either.
With the pandemic scarcity I think people are starting to figure out why the 9mm isn't as great as it's been made out to be over the past 15 years or so. With hollow points it's okay but HPs are $2/shot now and are not in stock anywhere. All the 9mm you can actually buy now consists of pointy, smooth ogive little things that zip through tissue way too easily and can scarcely put down a rabbit. We're starting to understand why experienced people disliked the round for 100 years.
I don't think 9mm ball and 5.56 are remotely comparable.It's funny, this is just like the anti 5.56 threads. Lots of "Ive read" and "In the past" posts about the ineffectiveness of 5.56. But then when I think about my gunfights , talk to my friends who stayed in after I got out, and talking with other friends and family who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, we all saw the 5.56 killing the enemy effectively.
Now it's 9mm ball. Ive seen a lot of people shot with 9mm ball. Both OCONUS and here. Mostly here though, by a large margin. Ive never seen it "zip" through people. Ive seen it punch holes through people. I have a few coworkers that have been shot with 9mm ball and it jacked them up. Surgeries, skin grafts, metal plates, months of physical therapy, amputations, etc...
I don't think 9mm ball and 5.56 are remotely comparable.
I just don't like bullets where you can't even tell if you're hitting the target or not.Never said they were. That's not the comparison being made.
Some manufacturers seem to use wider metplats than others. I think the sharpness of the edge is a factor too, and is also different from one manufacturer to another. Regardless, even the worst 40 FMJ out there looks a heck of a lot better than pretty much any 9mm FMJ to me. I would almost sooner use it than 9mm HP, because you'd get drastically better penetration but only a slightly smaller wound channel.Regarding FMJs and flat meplats, I'd been thinking about this a little while ago.
According to reliable sources (the big bore bovine shooters we all know and love) copper mono solids are now preferable to hardcast lead because they are tougher and less likely to suffer deformation of the meplat. And hardcast is tougher than FMJ, so the same is true there too.
But assuming the flat meplats on an FMJ is not deformed, there are a couple variables to overall wounding performance. These are documented by Veral Smith in his book 'Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets' (at least in the 3rd Edition I have). The variables are meplat diameter and projectile velocity. The larger the meplat, the larger the wound diameter. The faster the projectile, the large the wound diameter.
The chart (and other information) can be found here:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
I compared the meplats of 3 bullets. A 10mm 190gr Mono Solid from Buffalo Bore, a 180gr .40 cal FMJ-FP from RMR, and a 124gr .355 cal FMJ TC-FP from RMR. I honestly could not see a difference stacking one on top of the other. I tried using calipers, but that came down to deciding where the meplat ended and the micro-radius to the start of the ogive began. So to my eye, they all have the same meplat diameter.
Therefore, the difference in wounding between them (assuming the meplat does not deform) comes down to velocity. Look at the chart and see the difference that can make.
Either way, the flat meplats on .40 isn't very big. But it still exists, which is a bonus. Factory .357 Sig probably has a similar meplat and goes much faster (more wounding potential). But who can find that these days.
I just don't like bullets where you can't even tell if you're hitting the target or not.
Some manufacturers seem to use wider metplats than others. I think the sharpness of the edge is a factor too, and is also different from one manufacturer to another. Regardless, even the worst 40 FMJ out there looks a heck of a lot better than pretty much any 9mm FMJ to me. I would almost sooner use it than 9mm HP, because you'd get drastically better penetration but only a slightly smaller wound channel.
I just don't like bullets where you can't even tell if you're hitting the target or not.
What is it that leads you to believe that blood loss or a drop in blood pressure would be likely it effect a quick stop?Fine, "incapacitation" then
What I mean is that there is much less of a visible reaction in meat targets and game when using bullets that lack frontal area. In a defensive situation, I feel this could translate into being unsure whether you actually hit an opponent or not.On a paper target I try to call my shots, where did I hit based on trigger stroke and sight alignment as the shot broke? If, as is allowed in USPSA and IDPA, I think I pulled a shot, I quickly put in a makeup. I do not peer at the target looking for bullet holes, that eats up more time than an extra shot.
On a live target, felon or big game, is he still standing?
I don't believe that. I believe it would result in a slow "stop". I might have to run or hide for quite a while before I'm no longer being pursued, especially with 9mm.What is it that leads you to believe that blood loss or a drop in blood pressure would be likely it effect a quick stop?
This guy reacted to a 9mm shot
This guy reacted to a 9mm shot
It won't let me watch it.
I managed to watch it. I'm not surprised that 9mm occasionally works as intended when used in conjunction with expensive hollow point ammunition issued by police that is not likely in stock at any gun store near me right now, especially against suicidal people who may be predisposed to fall down when shot.Go to Youtube, Search for Phoenix Police
Critical Incident Briefing: June 14, 2020 - Union Hills & 43rd Ave
Do you know of any competent user evaluations that would indicate that 9mm does not usually work as intended with premium ammunition?I'm not surprised that 9mm occasionally works as intended when used in conjunction with expensive hollow point ammunition issued by police
I managed to watch it. I'm not surprised that 9mm occasionally works as intended when used in conjunction with expensive hollow point ammunition issued by police that is not likely in stock at any gun store near me right now, especially against suicidal people who may be predisposed to fall down when shot.
The experts agree with me. They say the 9mm is adequate when used with modern bullet designs and is simultaneously easy enough to control for women and old people to use. I've never disagreed with any of that.Okay man. I see you are not going to change your mind no matter what is presented to you. You can hold on to your fudd lore and stories from my firend's uncle's cousins rommate.
I'll continue to rely on actual real world first hand experience, which oddly is backed up by what the experts say... weird.
This guy reacted to a 9mm shot