THR: Battle Rifle Discussion & Picture Thread

Nothing new...

but I love my M1D Garand and my MAS 49/56......chris3

Neat old SVT40.

Garand with Leupold 2.5x IER scope in Ultimak M12 mount

Modern:

Armalite AR-10A2C



DSA SA58 Para carbine


Century C91:



Pre-1950:

I no longer have the VZ52. Not parting with the other 3:



Sold the jungle carbine to another THR member, gave the G98 to a friend as a birthday gift. Still have the rest:

MachIVshooter said:

Modern:

Armalite AR-10A2C

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What kind of a chin-weld can you get with that?

What kind of a chin-weld can you get with that?

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Pretty much rest my lower jaw on it (STR is much more comfortable than standard M4 stock)

I actually like the heap's-up position of carry handle mounts. Use the same set-up on my M15:

Warp said:

Garand with Leupold 2.5x IER scope in Ultimak M12 mount

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Ha!

Your cat isn't very photogenic.

PSL:



SVT-40:



I've got a number of bolt action rifles as well, but to me "battle rifle" means a semi-automatic rifle firing a full-sized cartridge.

7.62x51mm in an old school looking National Match M1A shown with a 30-06 M1.



7.62x54R Mosin made in 1931.



8x56R Steyr-Mannlicher M1895. I've given up on getting any ammo for that thing anytime soon.



I wouldn't call the 7.62x39mm a 'battle rifle' round as it's an intermediate caliber, but since others are posting their Kalashnikovs



I've got a Kar98k on the way from Wideners, but they're really slow on shipping. Not that it matters, everywhere I look is out of 7.92x57mm so that rifle will probably join the Steyr as a safe queen for the foreseeable future.

Garand with Ultimak mount, Eotech and brake -

OK, image seems to have disappeared. I'll try again.

The Century CETME...gets a lot of bad rap but mine was a tack driver that ate all. Most problems can be corrected with $10 in parts and $3 surplus mags.

^^^^

I see the YHM flash hider; did yours actually have a threaded barrel? Mine is swedged onto splines

How about a new 21st century Battle Rifle? AR Rifle chambered in 30-06.

I put this over on the AR thread but since this is a full power round, I thought I would add it here.

Full disclosure, I do not have any stake or interest in this company. I just LOVE this product offering.



The 30-06 AR. The company is Noreen firearms. http://www.onlylongrange.com

While shopping for my 50 BMG last fall I ran across them and Nemo Arms. http://www.nemoarms.com

I actually wound up going with an SHF50 by Safety Harbor Firearms, but that's another topic in an of itself.

Both companies are producing either a 300 Win Mag or 338 Lapua semi automatic AR platform. At $5999 (Noreen) and $5300 (Nemo) I about had a heart attack. Then I asked Noreen if they were ever planning a 30-06 chambered AR system (because the ammo is cheaper). They said they had a prototype and were working on it.

At the time, of course I said TAKE MY MONEY. And ordered it in very early November (pre-election) for $1XXX. 2013 prices have gone up (thanks Obama) but they are still very VERY reasonable at $1799.

Initial production was slated for January of this year but production delays and reworking the magazine have pushed it to early April 2013. Apparently I am damn near the top of the list on private citizen orders (serial number SHOULD be below 100 for those who like that kind of stuff)

I've spoken for about a total of 90 minutes on the phone with their engineers and reps getting some information so I'll put everything I know here. (A review will be coming after the rifle arrives.)

So here are the specs right off their web page. Here's the link but I'll type them out here.

BN 36 Rifle

Caliber: 30-06, 270, 25-06
Operation: Direct Gas Impingement, Side Charging Semiauto
Barrel : 22"
Muzzle Brake attached, uses 5/8 X 24 threads
Weight: 8 pounds
Rifling: RH 1 in 10
Stock: A2
Magazine: 5/10/20 rounds
Trigger: Milspec or optional

Notes from my discussions with them.

• If you go on their website you will also see the Bad News 338 Lap / 300 WinMag rifle as well. That rifle is 13.5 pounds while the BN36 is only 8 pounds. I was told that the receivers for the BN36 are slightly lighter and thinner because the brute force strength is not required for 30-06 versus the other cartridges.
• Comes with a Hard Case.
• 270 Winchester & 25-06 Remington will be forthcoming after intial orders are filled and shipped [pending]
• That muzzle brake WILL be coming off when I work up accelerator rounds for this beast.
• The entire system is based off the AR-15 platform. The custom parts on this are the upper receiver, bolt carrier, lower receiver, mag and obviously the barrel [who else makes a 30-06 chambered AR barrel ... I need to know]
• The bolt is a standard AR-10 bolt system but Noreen is using a proprietary heat treat system on them to make them stronger in order to accomodate the 270 Winchester and 25-06's higher chamber pressures (65K psi / 63k psi per SAAMI specs).
• What this means is that 65K psi 30-06 cartridges are possible in a semi-auto chamber and I intend to slowly and SAFELY work up loads [while checking for pressure signs obviously] for long range and specialized 30-06 loads specific to this rifle.
• Triggers and internal parts are completely AR-15 compatible
• Noreen does offer a Timney trigger option for $260 or so [not an exact price quote so just ask em]
• For Class 3 guys I was informed that an RDIAS will fit and operate in this platform. Obviously, let's play by the rules and be legal (of course) ... (They have a video of a full auto Bad News 338) ....
  Full Auto Bad News 338 Lapua
• The stock uses a rifle length buffer tube for the AR-15
• Magazines: This is the part that is not so fun. The rifle comes with 2 magazines and they are using a proprietary design. Extra mags are at $80 a pop (at last quote) but if you order more than 10 they will drop the price at bit ($60 seems reasonable). On the bright side they use a pinning option to modify the 20 round to handle only 5 or 10 depending on what's legal for hunting around you.
• The second bright spot on the magazines is that the magazine well will be larger than 85mm (OAL for 30-06). This should allow very heavy bullet loads to be worked up.
• I'm sure that everyone is watching ammo prices like a hawk but here's an interesting twist. 30-06 is now regularly cheaper than 5.56/.223 ammo that I have been finding in stock in places.
  (http://www.gunbot.net)
• At last check if you order direct from Noreen you can expect roughly an August to September delivery date. They did however state that they have a few thousand in the pipeline going out to various dealer orders. So if you just HAVE to have it now, you can probably get it in May with a bit of a premium.

Now for myself I have some seriously interesting plans for this puppy.

I do intend to get a second upper receiver so that I can alternate calibers. Noreen has already stated that they will only sell complete rifles at this point until they catch up with initial demand.
I also intend on working up that 1500 yard 30-06 load (more on that in a second post)
Accelerator rounds: Been doing a LOT of homework and talking to some serious gun nuts that do have 1 MOA working versions of their pet sabot loads. Every shooter that has a decent load says the key is tuning barrel harmonics for it.

Alternate calibers: Noreen admits to having working models for 270 Win and 25-06.
For my second upper receiver I can picture that a custom barrel will allow for some much more interesting chamberings

• 6mm-06 / 6.5mm-06
• 338-06 A-square
• 35 Whelen
• 375 Whelen
• Any of the Ackley Improved models of chambering
• 8 X 57 mm Mauser
• 7 x 57 mm Mauser
• God only knows what else that has an OAL around 3 - 3.34 inches
• I'm going to do a lot of measuring but with their report of extra space in the magazine their MIGHT be enough room for some longer beltless magnum cartridges with the right gunsmith. OAL for 338 RUM and 300 RUM are 91mm. Dakotas and others might be a possibility as well. [and a mag mod will have to be done of course]
• For those magnum cartridges you will obviously have to modify the bolt face from .473 in (12.0 mm) to .534 in (13.6 mm) [and probably more stuff too, not a gunsmith so don't crucify me] . I freely admit this might not be the best idea considering prior comments from Noreen but a man can certainly tinker a bit ....

Wolf extra power springs (like what guys are using for 50 Beowulf and 450 Bushmaster) should help with additional recoil. Experiments to follow obviously.
My Geissele SD3G trigger is sitting on the shelf waiting for this rifle to arrive. Considering how fast guys can dump mags with those things this is some serious firepower. Can you say 3 gun with a 30-06? Should be interesting to say the least ...

In conclusion I think Noreen's got one seriously winning product here. If it's as strong and reliable as I think it is (and they are marketing it as), Noreen Firearms might have just created the 21st century true battle rifle. Or maybe just a 21st century version of the Browning Automatic Rifle.

Either way, we (the customers) WIN.
I also know I'm already abandoning the 5.56 permanently.

Hope this helps,
Brandon

One more try -

1940 Tikka M91 from AV3---



1934 Tikka M27---



Just a couple of Finnish Mosins.
-----krinko

Centurion-

That is awesome! You had better do a full report here when you get it.

I don't personally see much use for one in .30-06, since .308 is so close. But an AR chambered in 6mm-06AI would be VERY tantalizing......

I don't personally see much use for one in .30-06...

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Is someone questioning the utility of the .30-06?

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Not my pic, but a better shot of a 30-06 Luxembourg FN49 than I can take . Comfiest and prettiest stock of any milsurp I own, good peep sights, 2 more rounds than a Garand, and the brilliant inner workings of what became the FAL a few years later. Definitely my largest rifle--until I get this next one put back together...:evil

Also not my pic, but I do happen to have 3 mags, the sling, cleaning kit, and a bayonet for the STGW57

Close up (minus the import stamp) of the ridicuous workmanship in these things

Biiiiig long rifle at over 4 ft with bayonet on

The huge bolt with delaying rollers 1/3rd larger than the H&K G3

TCB

Garand with Leupold 2.5x IER scope in Ultimak M12 mount

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I can't put my finger on it but there is something awesome about that garand. Pure business, clean, traditional, yet modern. I need to look away.

Is someone questioning the utility of the .30-06?

Not possible. Must be a server error...

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No, but I'm questioning the utility in a totally custom rifle that uses expensive proprietary mags to gain 50-100 FPS. I'd rather have the lower price tag and accessory options of a more conventional .308 AR.

In a bolt rifle, the only difference is about 1/2" in length and 4 ounces; Same rifle cost, no mag cost issue, same accessories available for short and long action guns. Then the added velocity and flexibility of the .30-06 is worthwhile. In this case, though, I just don't see that it is. I think the market for this one will be as a hunting AR, and chambered for the .270, .25-06 and other cartridges that better justify the added expense of a semi-custom gun and mags.

I've always thought of "battle rifles" as semi or select fire, otherwise I could post pics of my 1873.

M1 Garand is grand.


M1 Carbine


M1A's


AR-10

French 49/56.............

madcratebuilder said:

I've always thought of "battle rifles" as semi or select fire, otherwise I could post pics of my 1873.

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IMHO, 'battle rifle' was a term made up by purists to differentiate their M1s, M14s, etc from the "poodle shooter" M16. It is used to refer to full power rifles (as opposed to intermediate calibers like 7.92x33, 7.62x39, 5.56x45, etc) though, and that's how the OP is using it.

^Pretty much. The Battle Rifle typically refers to the more-powerful-than-usually-needed bolt action (then semi auto) rifles that were ultimately replaced by today's mid-power small bore cartridges. The FALs and G3's and whatnot that had selectable fire modes kinda fall into either "battle rifle" or "light machine gun" depending on their selection, in my opinion. The post WWII theory of infantry long-arms was to make every footsoldier a light machine-gunner (since LMGs were found to be very effective in WWII, and the brass can't help but to strategize around the last war). We've since learned that suppressive fire is so useful, that higher capacity ends up trumping power/range in most sorties, making the smaller/lighter cartridges more advantageous (for now ).

As history repeats, we're now seeing renewed calls for using heavier calibers (6mm and the like) going forward on the premise that 223 can't reach out across valleys in A-stan ('cuz we'll totally be fighting our next war in Afghanistan :banghead:)

TCB