Ruger 9mm Carbine Defense?

I think my 8" SBR-ed Sig MPX wins out, but I'd like to do an SBR 9mm Charger. That just looks like it would be super handy and lightweight. And also half the cost of an MPX.

I have a 5.56 pistol and a AR9 9mm carbine. I do not want to shoot the 5.56 pistol in a house, the blast is just too much for my ears. If I shoot it in the house I won't be able to hear anything but ringing. That isn't a good tactical situation when you can't hear sounds in your house. The 9mm is bad enough but nothing like the 5.56 in a short barrel.
As has been mentioned in previous posts pistol cartridge submachine guns were used quite extensively in WWII by nearly all the combatants so it apparently is an effective weapon.
As far as the 9mm not being able to defeat body armor, how many instances, where a private individual was defending themselves, have you heard about where the bad guys were using body armor? If you are worried about home invaders wearing body armor you will need something a bit more powerful than the .223/5.56.
As far as an AR pistol or a hand gun being more maneuverable in a house, why would you want to go looking for an intruder. I've not heard any home defense "experts" encouraging a defender to clear their dwelling. They all tell you to retreat to a room and call the police. Let the bad guy come to you and take the risk of being shot.

someguy2800 said:

As for shoot ability, blowback 9mm’s actually have a surprising amount of kick and muzzle jump because of the heavy bolt hitting the back of the receiver. It’s really not as light of an impulse as you might expect it to be unless you get a delayed blowback of some type. A straight blowback is pretty similar in impulse to a 223 or 300 blackout AR in my opinion. I’ve had 3 blowback 9mms and I have 1 radial delayed CMMG 9mm AR. The CMMG has almost no recoil impulse. None of the 9mm carbines I’ve had have been reliable enough for me to consider for home defense, but there are options that are very reliable, like an MP5 for instance. If I wanted a semi auto home defense carbine I would use a 300 blackout AR as they are dead reliable and will be much more terminally effective than any 9mm round. 300 blackout is also not nearly as deafening as a 16” 223 is, especially if you put a blast forwarder or better yet a krink brake on it.

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I had a Taurus CT9 which was both heavier than an M4 and kicked harder! The massive steel bolt had to weigh at least 5lb all by itself.....That said, it was very accurate and reliable with the factory (10 round) magazine. If only Taurus had manufacturered/ imported extra magazines for them, I would still have it- but they didnt, supposedly BATF had some sort of coniption over the gun and they were discontinued after only a couple years. I did modify both UZI and Colt SMG mags to work, but not reliably enough for HD duty.

Currently have a PSA-9 and it is both reliable and surprisingly soft-shooting. I think they may be running an extra heavy buffer and spring. I would use it for HD without reservation.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

I had a Taurus CT9 which was both heavier than an M4 and kicked harder! The massive steel bolt had to weigh at least 5lb all by itself.....That said, it was very accurate and reliable with the factory (10 round) magazine. If only Taurus had manufacturered/ imported extra magazines for them, I would still have it- but they didnt, supposedly BATF had some sort of coniption over the gun and they were discontinued after only a couple years. I did modify both UZI and Colt SMG mags to work, but not reliably enough for HD duty.

Currently have a PSA-9 and it is both reliable and surprisingly soft-shooting. I think they may be running an extra heavy buffer and spring. I would use it for HD without reservation.

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When I built my first AR9 pistol I had too light of a buffer spring and no bumper in the tube and the end of the pistol brace would make a little green bruise on my shoulder. I know some will laugh at that but I’m not kidding!

My PC9 with a Bushnell TRS-25 is a very fun and capable gun within 50-75 yards… which is all the range I would expect to shoot it for 95% of my uses. I use the Glock magazine insert so I have magazine compatibility with 5 of my double-stack Glock pistols.

As for the two guys in the clip, I have no words.

Regarding theclady’s comment about the quietness of the shot: that is a case of “Auditory Exclusion,” which is extremely common in cases where people under stress lose audio sensitivity as the brain starts focusing vision directly on the threat. (“Tunnel Vision” is another high-stress phenomenon.) I had a good case of both decades ago when a suspect pulled a hidden knife on detectives during a murder-for-hire interview in the station where I used to work. He cut one and struggled with them both to stab the other, but was shot through the head by the wounded detectives 9mm S&W less than three feet from me. (I had just got into the room where it happened.) I never heard the gunshot, but I clearly heard the suspect grunt when the bullet ended his life and he dropped to the floor at our feet. The 147 gr bullet exited and went clean through the lath/stucco wall about 6” to the right of my head and rattled down the hallway. (By the grace of God it missed me, that shot was almost a two-fer.)

A good article; not gospel but a decent explanation as to why some people witnessing intense things barely hear shots even though they’re standing nearby.

https://www.samatters.com/understanding-stress-part-6-auditory-exclusion/

The PC9 and PC40 are both capable in the home defense role. While I pray I’ll never need to use it for that purpose, I feel I would be well armed with either one should I need to protect the home and hearth.

Stay safe.

chicharrones said:

Yep.

About 5.7 lbs empty and less than 30" long.

View attachment 1041106

Some folks SBR the barrel just past the forend to shorten it even further.
Person in video is not me.

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Nice. The optimal barrel length to maximize 9mm velocity is like 11" isn't it?

Data lifted from BBTI. See that a 10" (or 16") 9mm comes pretty close to a 10" .223 Remington. And since we know any additional hydrostatic shock usually doesn't kick in in a 10.5" 223 barrel (unless you're dropping down to 45gr bullets or something weird) you're actually honestly possibly better off with a 9mm and a bullet designed for that speed range vs a 223 bullet that may not tumble, mushroom, or do anything like you expect from an AR. ARs have a number of other advantages that are worth noting. But food for thought.

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Kinetic energy isn't a valid indicator of wounding effectiveness. It's what structures the bullet hits and how much damage it causes that matters. The keys to rapid incapacitation are: Placement + Penetration.

"Hydrostatic shock" isn't a wounding mechanism. Nowhere in the professional wound ballistics community is the term "hydrostatic shock" used. Laypeople confuse temporary cavitation with "hydrostatic shock".

BlueHeelerFl said:

Nice. The optimal barrel length to maximize 9mm velocity is like 11" isn't it?

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Good question. Worth checking out at BBTI.

Recoil? I had a CM11-9 once. I don't remember much recoil, but that thing had trigger-slap that could just about break your finger. Never seen (felt) the likes of it before or since.

BlueHeelerFl said:

Nice. The optimal barrel length to maximize 9mm velocity is like 11" isn't it?

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My guess would be much more than that. Probably more like 14-16". Or more, takes a pretty long barrel with most calibers before velocity increases actually stop.

9mm carbine for HD/SD? MP-5, Sten, Uzi, Schmisser, Sterling, M3, all say yes, you can use a 9mm carbine for CQC, HD with spectacular results. Low recoil, easy to control/point,cheap to train with.
Imagine training with 100 rounds of 12 ga 00 buck vs 100 rounds of 124 gr fmj.
I have experience with 5.56 carbines and would chose it as my personal choice, but the 9mm is an excellent choice.

Many handgun cartridges were designed as carbine cartridge and longer barrels.

When 9mm Parabellum was developed, longer barreled pistols, some having detachable shoulder stocks, were popular with militaries. Also, submachine guns were being developed. Similarly, .45 Long Colt was developed for longer barreled revolvers and could be used effectively in carbines. Carbine cartridges work in pistol barrels, but are optimized for 8-12 inch barrels.

True pistol rounds are generally relatively low velocity, and don't significantly benefit from longer barrels.

A Thureon Defense 9mm (Glock mags) is a handy and fun way to spend money.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Those are all fully automatic though.

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Is that a problem?

There is a reason no military I've ever heard of fielded a semi auto 9mm carbine.

And no, artillery lugers don't count.

JCooperfan1911 said:

The person is comparing submachine guns to semi-auto only carbines. It is not a fair comparison.

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The direction of that all depends on who you talk to.

I do agree with your assumption, and I still dont see it as a problem.

someguy2800 said:

There is a reason no military I've ever heard of fielded a semi auto 9mm carbine.

And no, artillery lugers don't count.

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Actually, they do, and there were others besides the Lugers, HP's, Broomhandles, etc.

Not the best choices for things, but, with the stocks attached, they do qualify as a sorta carbine.

My point in naming submachine guns was to compare caliber, size of weapon, capacity, of commonly recognized platforms. The ability to fire full auto is irrelevant. A PC carbine is well suited for SD/HD from 1 to 75-100 meters IMHO.

At 440 yards 9mm 124gr ball penetrates 9” of ballistics gel.



11:00 minute mark for the ballistics gel at 440 yards


9mm expanding hollow points at distance (part 2 to the above video)

I sent a Ruger PC 9 carbine + mags and a mixture of FMJ and JHP to my Sister in Michigan when the Vid 1st kicked off and everyone was on lock down. She said she had been seeing strange folk near her house in MI. I figured it's a pretty simple platform for a new shooter to learn and basically a 9mm 1022.

I also bought a 2nd one for myself so I could answer any questions and have a familiarity with the rifle.


It wouldn't be the 1st rifle I grabbed in a HD situation. It's accurate enough, reliable enough, and has low recoil.
I've debated selling it because it's not something I shoot very often.

My 9mm CZ Scorpion is just more fun to shoot. Lighter, smaller, more fun suppressed.


For HD, I'm grabbing my holstered EDC handgun 1st, followed by whichever flavor of rifle or rifle caliber pistol that is not in the safe.
My suppressed 10.5 inch 5.56 AR pistols is possibility.



I haven't moved to 300 black yet. Maybe once I start reloading again. Factory 300 blk ammo has been crazy expensive these past 2 years of the Vid.

@drobs what’s the “vid” Another name for the Covid sham lockdowns or what?

BreechFace said:

@drobs what’s the “vid” Another name for the Covid sham lockdowns or what?

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Correct.

My one complaint on the Ruger PC 9 - the mag release is easy to accidentally hit at the wrong time.