Ruger 9mm Carbine Defense?

[JCooperfan1911]

I recently viewed a depressing video that is making the rounds on social media. Long story short, a man fires a Ruger PC carbine at a different man who was arguing with him about his significant other. He was instantly killed and dropped quickly, producing a lot of hemorrhaging.

Gruesome and sad as it was, it drove home the fact these 9mm carbines do not seem to be the toys some think they are. It was highly effective. I am assuming it was a 9mm as it appeared to have a 33 round Glock extended magazine. It was this specific model I believe:



What was also interesting is a woman whom was filming the altercation did not initially appear overtly concerned when they man opened fire on the other. Statements are saying due to the surprisingly quiet nature of the firearm she did not think it was a real gun, and instead though it a paintball or similar gun.

The rifle was not suppressed, and this brings up how much less noise is created from a 9mm out of a 16” rifle barrel vs a 5.56mm carbine or a shotgun. That’s never a bad thing for long term hearing health as well as not deafening oneself indoors.

What is everyone’s thoughts on these guns for home defense? While their range and power is limited, it appears for within 50 yards to be a pretty formidable option with low recoil and low noise signature.

Thoughts?

 

[PapaG]

I have wanted one since the first one came through our shop. Practicality in my life considering what I already have stops me

 

[dh1633pm]

Kept the Marlin Camp 9 by the bed for a long time til I got the FNH SLP. Yes they are effective.

 

[horsemen61]

I recently viewed a depressing video that is making the rounds on social media. Long story short, a man fires a Ruger PC carbine at a different man who was arguing with him about his significant other. He was instantly killed and dropped quickly, producing a lot of hemorrhaging.

Gruesome and sad as it was, it drove home the fact these 9mm carbines do not seem to be the toys some think they are. It was highly effective. I am assuming it was a 9mm as it appeared to have a 33 round Glock extended magazine. It was this specific model I believe:

View attachment 1040952

What was also interesting is a woman whom was filming the altercation did not initially appear overtly concerned when they man opened fire on the other. Statements are saying due to the surprisingly quiet nature of the firearm she did not think it was a real gun, and instead though it a paintball or similar gun.

The rifle was not suppressed, and this brings up how much less noise is created from a 9mm out of a 16” rifle barrel vs a 5.56mm carbine or a shotgun. That’s never a bad thing for long term hearing health as well as not deafening oneself indoors.

What is everyone’s thoughts on these guns for home defense? While their range and power is limited, it appears for within 50 yards to be a pretty formidable option with low recoil and low noise signature.

Thoughts?

I think it’s great for that role and I can see why one would use it like that add a small Reddot and you’d be set maybe a light

 

[chicharrones]

My Beretta CX4 is my home defense long gun. Plus it’s a plinker and fun gun. It has a red dot and light on it, with a selection of mags in capacities of 15, 20, and 30.

As far as loudness, the CX4 sure is quieter than the 16” barreled .308 AR with muzzle brake that was blasting 3 feet to my right yesterday.

 

[shuvelrider]

One of the funnest guns I've fired in a long time, decently accurate with the iron sights. Super accurate with a red dot mounted on top, easy offhand shooting at 60 yards. I have the older version without the heat shield, a takedown carbine that can pack away in a small case. I picked up some extra mags, even a 32 rounder for walking around on some acreage I have access to. I did put a tac light on mine under the barrel for home defense use if need be.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My original PC9 located in my bedroom closet RSC in condition 3.

 

[thewillweeks]

Data lifted from BBTI. See that a 10" (or 16") 9mm comes pretty close to a 10" .223 Remington. And since we know any additional hydrostatic shock usually doesn't kick in in a 10.5" 223 barrel (unless you're dropping down to 45gr bullets or something weird) you're actually honestly possibly better off with a 9mm and a bullet designed for that speed range vs a 223 bullet that may not tumble, mushroom, or do anything like you expect from an AR. ARs have a number of other advantages that are worth noting. But food for thought.
Edit: convention wisdom says 55gr in an 11.5 should develop hydrostatic shock.

 

[Hartkopf]

IMO the incident in the OP was more about shot placement than anything else. A 1400 FPS 9mm might be a little more effective than a 1100 FPS 9mm but we’re still nowhere near rifle effectiveness. A 357Sig with Underwood ammo might deliver equal velocity of average 9mm in a PCC. All of the above requires shot placement to be really effective. The PCC could make that shot placement much easier so in that respect alone, it could be a great home defense weapon.

 

[someguy2800]

A 16” 9mm carbine is not quiet, but it’s nothing compared to a high pressure rifle cartridge from a short barrel. Also much quieter than a 9mm handgun. You would never mistake it for a paintball gun or a 22, that’s for certain.

 

[someguy2800]

As for shoot ability, blowback 9mm’s actually have a surprising amount of kick and muzzle jump because of the heavy bolt hitting the back of the receiver. It’s really not as light of an impulse as you might expect it to be unless you get a delayed blowback of some type. A straight blowback is pretty similar in impulse to a 223 or 300 blackout AR in my opinion. I’ve had 3 blowback 9mms and I have 1 radial delayed CMMG 9mm AR. The CMMG has almost no recoil impulse. None of the 9mm carbines I’ve had have been reliable enough for me to consider for home defense, but there are options that are very reliable, like an MP5 for instance. If I wanted a semi auto home defense carbine I would use a 300 blackout AR as they are dead reliable and will be much more terminally effective than any 9mm round. 300 blackout is also not nearly as deafening as a 16” 223 is, especially if you put a blast forwarder or better yet a krink brake on it.

 

[Alex Clayton]

I have been a HUGE fan boy of the PCC all my life. I used to mainly be interested in them in.45. Long time back bought the first 9mm one for Wife. Never thought much of them till I saw the ballistics. Good ammo in a 16" tube is moving a 124 pill at what a good .357 does in a 4inch tube. That made me look at them VERY differently. When the Ruger came back with the FAR better version I grabbed one off the auction. It is both a ton of cheap fun and a GREAT home gun. Keep it with a happy stick in it. So it's like having 33 rounds of .357 on tap and they are SOOO much easier to shoot accurately. Wife who is very recoil sensitive loves the little Ruger rifle.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

I'm not going to comment on the background of that video, and there's a LOT to comment on, but does anyone know where that shot hit? The guy fell to the ground like a puppet with its strings cut. I'm guessing it was a heart shot.

 

[Tinman357]

ALEX CLAYTON...

I've been waiting for someone to point that out. Yes, a 124gn NATO 9mm out of a 16" barrel is very, very close to the well respected 125gn .357 from a 4".

Without the blast and muzzel flash.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I've loaded some 100gr 9mn that are nearing 1600fps from my Ruger PCC 9mm, and not seeing any pressure signs yet. Definitely nothing to sneeze at out to 100yds.

 

[Dibbs]

Just one person's opinion, but you get a little extra MV with the longer barrel, with the wider pistol slug. Makes a 9mm PCC a very viable self defense carbine.

 

[ECVMatt]

During the initial stages of the pandemic I moved my family from the city up to our family house in the desert. I still had to work down in the city so the family was alone during the week. It takes about two hours for the police to arrive up there, so you are pretty much on your own. The vast majority of the folks up there are great people but we are sandwiched between two larger cities and folks started to come to our town to steal whatever they could.

I tried very hard to get my wife to learn how to use an AR15, but it just didn't work out. She felt the AR was too "blasty" and ejected cartridges too violently. Bottom line it just overwhelmed her. Since the Ruger PC Carbine is basically the same as a 10/22 that she is very familiar with all I had to show my wife was the different location of the magazine release and she could run the gun. The lower noise from the PC Carbine was another reason she liked it.

She loves the Ruger and has pretty much claimed it as her own. I have a red dot on it so you can point, pull, and get hits. I felt much better with my family protected by the PC Carbine especially since my wife was so confident in its use. Having tons of Glock magazines and 9mm ammo was a plus.

Anyone who thinks the 9mm from a rifle is not powerful has not shot a living target with it.

I will not comment on the video but am not surprised by the results.

 

[zaitcev]

What is everyone’s thoughts on these guns for home defense?

The lower blast is true. The recoil of a typical 9mm blowback PCC is not lower than a 5.56 AR. You'd need to look at CMMG Resolute or a clone of MP5 for a lower recoil. Although obviously it's much lower recoil than of a shotgun. Some of PCCs, such as Beretta Cx4, save you overall length when used.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

They have been very effective in combat in all sorts of wars, big and small. Not sure why they would not be a good choice for civilian self defense or home defense. There might be a reason why the MP5 was so popular, for so long with many specialized military units.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

What is everyone’s thoughts on these guns for home defense? While their range and power is limited, it appears for within 50 yards to be a pretty formidable option with low recoil and low noise signature.

The 9mm from a carbine actually has an "official" effective range of 300 yards. True or not, you can certainly keep them on the paper plate out to 100 yards and beyond.

 

[Alex Clayton]

ALEX CLAYTON...

I've been waiting for someone to point that out. Yes, a 124gn NATO 9mm out of a 16" barrel is very, very close to the well respected 125gn .357 from a 4".

Without the blast and muzzel flash.

I really had no clue this was how it worked until I saw it the first time on a chart Kel-Tec put out. They were using +P 124 ammo in their little rifle. I at first thought it was bogus, so started looking. Several sites were showing people who took the time to test the ammo over a Chrono and it was true. Suddenly that first 9mm PCC I bought, KTSub 2000, I had bought as a range fun gun, made me look at it in a whole new light. It is so light even its too much for the Wife so when I saw the ads for the new Ruger I got one when the market started to fill. That the Wife could enjoy even with the Speer +P GDHP. Since by then I had a pile of the Glock mags already it was perfect. I like the KT for me for around the house as it's so damn short and light its damn near as easy to move through the house with as a hand gun. Wife keeps the Ruger on her side of the bed as she is super great with it. I was never big at all on the 9mm round but, with the rifle we can both put 5-10 rounds on target as fast as we can pull the trigger at "in house range". Its so easy and would be devastating effective.

 

[Havok7416]

I have both the PC Carbine (for now) and the PC Charger, which is the pistol version of the weapon (which I made into a legal SBR). Both are great guns. While they are quieter than a rifle in a larger cartridge, they are in no way truly quiet and there is no way one would be mistaken as being non-lethal by anyone.

Pictured below are both guns. The Charger is setup for defensive use to include a can (see above about noise). These guns actually have more felt recoil than the pistol caliber itself would seem to indicate. This is due to the blowback action which is exacerbated by the deadblow bolt. Recoil is certainly manageable but the gun does move around a bit.



I will point out that there is no guarantee that the gun in the video is a 9mm simply based on the long mag, although it's statistically likely. The gun is also offered in .40 and there are .40 Glock mags that are just as long.

 

[FL-NC]

They are an excellent choice for HD, and I think it would be difficult to argue this point. The 9mm pistol is also a proven performer in a smaller format. Carbines like the Ruger increase velocity with the longer barrel, and the inherent capability for the shooter to place more rapid and accurate fire into the target. Recoil, flash, and blast are at a minimum esp when compared to things like the 223 AR or the old standby riot-type shotgun- an extremely valid consideration for those who aren't as physically capable as they would like to be. They also tend to be very lightweight. Adding things like a white light and red dot sight greatly increase the capability of these things for the HD role, esp considering the very short distances almost always encountered in these situations. Remember that for decades (and to a lesser extent today) 9mm SMG's were the "gold standard" for many military/special operations/SWAT applications- whether it was (is) the MP5, the Uzi (famously employed during the Reagan assassination attempt, and used extensively by the Israeli and other militaries) or older "legacy type" 9mm SMG's used world-wide during and after WW2 (MP40, STEN/Sterling, Beretta M12, etc.)

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I have my Ruger PC Carbine setup as "ready to go" for my wife as a defense weapon. She loves it and shoots it better than any other weapon we could use in that role.

Winchester Ranger T 147 9mm+P with a 20 round mag pushing them is a formidable weapon.

 

[thewillweeks]

As for shoot ability, blowback 9mm’s actually have a surprising amount of kick and muzzle jump because of the heavy bolt hitting the back of the receiver. It’s really not as light of an impulse as you might expect it to be unless you get a delayed blowback of some type. A straight blowback is pretty similar in impulse to a 223 or 300 blackout AR in my opinion. I’ve had 3 blowback 9mms and I have 1 radial delayed CMMG 9mm AR. The CMMG has almost no recoil impulse. None of the 9mm carbines I’ve had have been reliable enough for me to consider for home defense, but there are options that are very reliable, like an MP5 for instance. If I wanted a semi auto home defense carbine I would use a 300 blackout AR as they are dead reliable and will be much more terminally effective than any 9mm round. 300 blackout is also not nearly as deafening as a 16” 223 is, especially if you put a blast forwarder or better yet a krink brake on it.

Data from ar15.com. Be really careful what 300blk you use. As you can see the heavy bullets fall flat on their face in a pistol and never were great in a rifle. Also, you give up the hydrostatic shock for all loads.