Packing a punch, and concealing it. Ideas?

A quality 1911 that is very accurate would do and is my choice, although I would prefer to carry the Glock 17L I used to have, it wasn’t as precise as the 1911.

Possibly a mini Uzi, they have good carry rigs for them, the secret service carried them.

Whatever you choose, be proficient with it beyond whatever distance you think you may need it.

Cump said:

How much wrist pain are we talking here?

Replying to the 45.70 derringer ...

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None to speak of but then again, these were trapdoor loads.

I don't know how you could possibly draw an AR pistol or shotgun from a bag (I'm assuming some type of backpack?) faster than you can draw a handgun from the hip. That more powerful gun is worthless when you are shot with only half the gun hanging out.

Also, does an "inconspicuous" backpack exist? When I see people wearing a backpack in an out of place environment, such as while shopping at Wal-Mart, my first thought is probably shoplifting... my second thought is probably gun. It just doesn't make sense to me to be wearing a backpack, unless you're going hiking, or going to school.

I have two objections at first reading. One is general, the other specific.
One: An arm stashed in a bag is too easy to separate from the protagonist or be blocked from being obtained. I would rather have something on my person. (And I'm too short for any sort of long gun.)
Other: Anything of a shotgun nature is much too 'general delivery' for my taste. I want single, precision shot placement. (At least the illusion of such.)

DustyGmt said:

Not a LEO.

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And you'll do well to remember that....

Plan2Live said:

Sounds like you trained under trainers with a similar philosophy as mine. We trained to take two shots center mass then go for the pelvis as opposed to a head shot. The theory being in an active shooter scenario the potential for innocent civilians heads being behind the shooter's head would be high so the idea was to bring them down then go for the head shot using a downward bullet trajectory.

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Wouldn't most people dive for the floor or under a "something or other" and a shot with a low trajectory may be problematic.

Did anybody mention this? If a critical incident starts with a bad guy or gal with a long arm and you pull out something that looks like one also - guess who some CCW/CHL/LTC folks might just shoot. Who is going to waste time deciding if such an out of place weapon is carried by a hero?

It's a dumb idea. Want a reasonable gun - get something like a Glock 17 with a RDS and come up to speed with it with training, FOF and competition. I've sat with groups of trained, armed folks in large venues and if a rampage started and then you appeared with such a gun - figure it out. We probably wouldn't ask questions or listen for you to explain.

It's a signal detection question - your appearance probably would cross the action activation criteria for most folks in such a situation. Recall, that plain clothes police get shot unfortunately in entangled incidents, even with ID and shouting.

I also agree with missing with a shotgun. Run a shoot house or movement based competition with a shotgun and you see the missed targets (not that I would ever do that, ahem). Even with FliteControl 00 there are fliers. There's a debate about 9 shot producing more fliers than 8 pellets and recent quality control on the newest product, more fliers.

What in the Westley Snipes, Jason Bourne, Die Hard, Tin foil hat crap is this? When did this become the wild west and us need to walk around town with an AR or sawed off shotgun shoved in our pants? If your that scared, stay home.

Axis II said:

What in the Westley Snipes, Jason Bourne, Die Hard, Tin foil hat crap is this? When did this become the wild west and us need to walk around town with an AR or sawed off shotgun shoved in our pants? If your that scared, stay home.

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[Waves a signal to the children, to break down the mortars and machine guns]

I carried an Mp5k on several high-profile protection details several years back, along with my Glock 34. Carried under a duster-length coat during a rare period of rain here on the one walking-detail I used it on made the slung Mp5k seem semi-practical. The other details involved me driving with it across my chest from point A to B, so i could pull it up to fire if under assault while driving. For this, it was great. Yes, we trained on single and team assault, single and multiple suspect counter-assault tactics, dignitary protection driving both single and in motorcade, high-risk threat planning, assessment and countermeasures, etc. Now I’m not an expert compared to many, many others with decades of experience in that realm, but I can confidently say that I do have 9.5 years of this stuff behind me.

Long guns, or even “small ” long guns are amazingly impractical to carry for 95% of the population outside of a bag or briefcase, and even these are impossible to hang onto 100% of the time. (Ever seen a guy take communion with a bug out bag on his back or a tennis racquet case in his hand? Me neither.) I seriously imagine that it will be set down somewhere, or just left in the car, sooner rather than later.

While I get the idea that one may plan for armageddon, it quickly runs into the reality of life. I trained monthly for years and got paid to do these things every few months. These details could be a real slog depending on the weather, time and effort involved, risk level, etc. Joe and Jane Citizen certainly aren’t ready to constantly train to gain and maintain firearms proficiency under less than ideal circumstances, study what is needed to successfully counter an ambush when taken by surprise, and worst of all maintain a constant and credible state of readiness and awareness to make all the previous efforts worthwhile. We rotated the teams regularly to maintain an edge. Sadly, you never will be able to if you’re loaded for bear 24/7 to worship, then grab a bite to eat, go get a haircut, hit the store, run through the carwash, etc. And thats just on Sunday.

Remember, the advantages always favor the attacker; they know the who, the what, the where, the how, and most importantly; the when. With dignitaries about all you can hope for is your prior planning or an intervention disrupting their goals if you’re caught in the middle.

I got a little preachy here, I apologize. My limited advice is to not overthink it; First, find a solid CCW option. Second; Diligently and consistently train in basics (including ccw draw from cover garment, shoot-move and using available cover-concealment) when (if?) you can. Third; Maintain awareness and always look for the way out as a matter of course. And remember that if you are caught in the open under fire, all those heroic ideas of grand shootouts that we all fantasize about on the range fly out the window, and you’re going to revert to your lizard-brain to survive.

Stay safe.

Axis II said:

What in the Westley Snipes, Jason Bourne, Die Hard, Tin foil hat crap is this? When did this become the wild west and us need to walk around town with an AR or sawed off shotgun shoved in our pants? If your that scared, stay home.

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Does that mean you don't support my sand-bagged M-2 gun emplacements at the mouth of my driveway?

Old Dog said:

Does that mean you don't support my sand-bagged M-2 gun emplacements at the mouth of my driveway?

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I need those to keep the kids off my lawn

DustyGmt said:

I've recently begun to think about the possibility of carrying something with a lil more horsepower than a 9mm, possibly a Shockwave 12Ga type of gun or possibly an AR pistol, like a really small one that can conceal very nicely in a small inconspicuous bag, possibly a 7.5". Are there any other options outside of those two, rhetorical, I know there is but I know there are guys here who have come to this road long before me and have had plenty of time to think on it and I'm sure some of you guys have come up with pretty clever solutions as far as going about concealing them.

It's really disturbing, the idea of somebody heavily armed and having the advantage of surprise and advance knowledge storming into a place, keyed up and with no regard for human life, targeting places of worship, supermarkets, theaters, etc and being forced to react completely taken by surprise with very little time to even process what youre seeing let alone react to it.

I've recently decided to possibly re evaluate my carry choices or supplement them in some cases, some of the time. Not saying we should all live crippled with fear or that everybody ought to walk around strapped to the gills, just considering my regular activities and thinking in such an event, just having a lil pocket 9 makes me a lil more vulnerable than I care to be in certain places. In such an event, you're probably going to be dumbstruck for at least a few seconds while you try to make sense of what's going on unless youre trained to deal with that kind of stress and react quickly, and by then if you aren't already becoming past tense, it would be best to have basically anything besides all your common handgun cartridges, think churches or public gatherings, farmers markets, etc..... I'm thinking 12ga or 5.56 would be suited to this task and the best way to conceal it in public is? Any ideas guys?


Assume I already know that a well placed .380 or .22lr will do the job. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about facing down a murderer with a rifle and body count goals, what is the best thing to have in this scenario that can be concealed and drawn within a few seconds.

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To get back to your original idea. Kel Tec does make various folding rifles chambered in 556.

I had thought they would make a decent and inconspicuous traveling gun, that would easily for into regular luggage and not draw attention when checking into a motel

DustyGmt said:

I get that it's not conventional and outside the norm. I just don't know why it's inconceivable. I'm getting that people think it's just not done, no reason to. I gotta point out, I've seen people on here throughout the years who have posted lil carry rigs with a AR or PS90 or something similar along those lines in a nicely appointed pack with a couple spare mags, etc. Just can't locate them atm.

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Believe it or not, I do understand your concerns, particularly with regards to recent events but what I'm reading from you is a need for more fire power/"punch" in case someone is "armored up". That's straight up fear talking...

You don't wash away a concern, such as you're describing, with more firepower. If you were assigned to a protection detail, fine, I understand that but in your case, I think more quality, scenario based training would be better.

Hey, maybe even one day, you to could be Hollywood good! Or at least that confident.





Otherwise, you're just some dude with more firepower than skill and that could be dangerous to everyone.
Don't be that guy!

Sorry, couldn't find any good Rambo memes.

In time you'll probably discover that your pocket pistol is more capable than you give it credit for.

I am guessing that, however well-intentioned you might be...

...if you have a medical emergency or something along those lines and you are found toting around something like that, you will have a LOT of explaining to do. Everyone is going to assume the worst. And who could blame them?

[EDIT: I think that is much more likely to occur than saving the day with a long arm that you just happen to walk around with and keep on tap in case the unthinkable happens.]

DustyGmt said:

I'm talking about facing down a murderer with a rifle and body count goals, what is the best thing to have in this scenario that can be concealed and drawn within a few seconds.

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You have much better odds of being struck by lightning on a sunny day than being "in the right place at the right time with the right tool." A Shockwave or AR pistol 24/7/365 would get old in 3 days. Joe

Having been hit by lighting - I am an expert. I doubt one could get a concealed longer arm into action faster than someone with a handgun who is skilled with it. Carrying one of the aforementioned guns on safe is interesting. That's a time sink. Now, folks with striker, no safety folks - just draw and shoot. If you carry a gun with a safety - such as a 1911, those folks (I have) practice the draw and safety manipulation intensively. Takes lots of reps. Will our OP put in the hundreds to thousands of reps to generate the unconscious competence, motor programs to get the gun into action. Another question - will the gun be chambered. Unchambered handguns are stupid - OMG - another debate. Unchambered long arms are typical until actually in the fight because of the ND, drop different potential (depending on the weapon). So walking around with a chambered Shockwave or AR type isn't really recommended unless in a battle.

Smooth deployment of a weapon from a difficult concealment, getting a sight picture, removing a safety, chambering (OH, NO) - tune in days later.

DustyGmt said:

Explain.

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Because Hollywood is fake.

Many years ago I was in a similar boat as you, OP. I tried the off-body. There were no ARs like there are now, but the ARs suck at this sort of duty. They are not at all flat/projection free. I went with a Kel Tec Sub-9 in a laptop case. It was a bit big and thus slow to get out of the bag, would have worked, but I did end up setting it down more often than I liked. I went to a Glock 17L which I had more faith in and came out of the bag quicker, but it still got set down to much to make me happy.

In that sort of situation today, I would use a very old Glock 19 of mine. Of the 30 or so Glocks I've owned, it is (from the factory) the single most accurate. It will put a mag of Federal BPLE into one inch at 25 yards.

You're facing a very difficult scenario. I would want precision. I don't want to be close enough to an active shooter that a shotgun would hit him. You could try a folding AR but man they don't come out of any bag easy or quick. Crap poking out everywhere. Flatter shooting is a real help at distance.

Good luck.

Carry something big enough to fight with and get as much quality training as you can. Long guns have their place but not practical for the OP's scenario.

This sounds insane, but if nearby people could easily be hit by a Good Guy’s gun,

be prepared, if you are to the Attackers side or rear, to do the 1 second/20 feet rush, and use your elbow on the attacker’s head, knee into the crotch..

Three really young unarmed Americans successfully did so on a train in France, against a terrorist with a select-fire AKM.

DustyGmt writes: (to my)

>>>..."dumbstruck" while "still processing" what's going on and become separated from the bag.<<<

Not sure if I'm reading into it or if this is snark, but I think it's important to calibrate for your own abilities and consider that even if you're armed and situational aware, you're at a disadvantage.

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No "snark" intended. I was totally referring to the element of surprise you describe, and the proverbial eight-ball behind which you would be as the scenario unfolds. I would want the ability to bolt as fast as I could, while knowing my weapon(s), even if not yet in hand, would be going with me. It sounds like we're on the same page there.

Imagine, for example, being seated in a restaurant or church pew, surrounded by other people. Your folded long gun is in a bag at your right side. Suddenly, gunfire erupts, also from your right side. The instinct for pretty much every one around you is going to be to move to your left, and you may want to (or be forced to) move with them. It's a strong possibility that, in the suddenness of this wave of movement, your bag gets left behind. Even if you manage to grab it, getting it open and deploying whatever is in it may be further challenging during this movement, especially while knee-and-elbow deep in other people.

If your first reaction to what is disturbing you is to make a radical change to your normal carry, then I submit that you're going down the path of diminishing returns for your investment in this.

There is far more to self defense than what you're carrying. The single, most important aspect of what you're carrying is the fact that you're carrying in the first place.

You cannot possibly prepare for every eventuality by hardware alone. If you attempted to cover all angles this way, you'd soon amass so much hardware on your person you'd have a difficult time simply getting around, much less effectively deploy it in need.

Instead, spend your time and money learning how to more effectively round out your self-defense training. That will serve you FAR better in the long run, as it will engage your mind and body in specific training which is readily adaptable to a broad spectrum of circumstances.

Shift your thinking to "what could I do in similar circumstances as (event) to better ensure my survival" or "how could I better tackle this problem to better ensure my survival" instead of "what weapon should I carry to counter this specific event".

I've mentioned this before but I ONCE carried this into a sketchy part of a known sketchy city to pick up a neighbor at a dive bar. It was a pleading request that I performed rather under protest. It had a 40 round mag of XM-193 and a green laser atop. It was on a single point sling under a trenchcoat and is quick to get into action. Problem is, the shootings mentioned seemingly usually occur in the areas where you don't expect trouble, and as it turned out, I planned ahead for the remote possibility unnecessarily.