.32 ACP too weak as a defensive round?

I'm only partially joking here, but if someone shot you thru the left side with a .32acp, and thru your right side with a .380acp, your body wouldn't know the difference. The supposed ballistic advantage of the .380 appears on paper, but not in practical use.

Click to expand...

Hmm, so I should sell my .357s and my .45 and get a .32? Don't think so, Scooter.

I won't carry below .380 and I don't carry that if I can carry a .38 or 9mm.

Rather have the Seecamp with me in a pair of shorts than my Collt 1911 home on my nightstand. My choice although YMMV.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but those are not the only choices. I am wearing shorts as we speak and quite comfortably carrying a perfectly concealed Commander-sized lightweight 1911 .45. In this picture I've pulled up my Polo shirt to show how flatly it sits against me. When the shirt is down, there is no print. Looks like there's nothing under there.

Hi Biker,

Remember the end of the movie? The guy with the small sword was still alive. Most of the others died.

Kevin

I know someone that was shot 3 times with the .32acp from a short distance with 2 of the shots hitting him in the face. He is still alive and well. I don't know what ammo was used, but that was enough for me to never consider it for self-defense.

Yes, the .32ACP can be an 'effective' round when using the right hollowpoint.

Here is a test that I ran a short while ago:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=201904

Basically, a maximum pressure load can propel a 71 grain JHP that expands to 0.398" to a depth in gelatin of 12.3".

Is it my first choice in a gun, no. But it can be made effective : start emailing/calling Hornady and ask them to make the 85 grain 32 caliber JHPs in a 71 grain weight and load them hot in their factory 32ACP rounds.

JE223

Doger5----the person I know was shot due to a practical joke gone terribly wrong. I won't go into details, but I don't have much faith in that caliber due to the evidence I saw. I can handle stronger calibers than that, so I do. Use what you can and become proficient with it. That's good advice for anyone.

Didn't I see some numbers recently that showed that out of the same short barrel lengths, less than 3", that .380 ballistics were hardly much better than .32ACP?

jmm

Hah! Kevin....bite me.

Biker

My 3" .380 makes 192 ft lbs with a normal pressure load (can't really push it too hot in a blow back gun) with an 88 grain Hornady XTP. That's pretty sad, why I'd rather not have to tote it. At least it's got 12 rounds on tap and fits in a jeans rear pocket with a holster I made for it. Center mass until he stops.

The energy numbers I've seen on the .32 are 120ish, .25s and .22s less than 100 ft lbs. For me, if I'm down this low in energy, I at least want a little bullet diameter and hopefully some penetration. I've never seen my Hornady XTP load tested in jello, just hope it works if I need it. Sure feel a lot better about a 158 grain .38 at 260 ft lbs out of a snubby or a 115 grain 9mm XTP at 410 ft lbs out of a 3" subcompact 9. That one's movin' fast enough I'm postitive it will expand and I'm much more assured either will penetrate adequately.

jmm,

Not sure if your question was directed towards me? But I have done some work with both the .32ACP and the .380ACP Kel-Tec (barrel lengths are ~ the same and under 3").

I'm not sure what you mean by 'barely' better, but comparing the above .32ACP JHP and the best .380ACP that I can find (for this particular barrel length), the 90gr Hyrda-Shok, the .32ACP has a frontal area of 0.124 in^2, while the .380ACP is 0.173 in^2. That is a 40 percent larger hole. Kindof strange, I know, but when making comparisons of the bullet hole sizes made by two bullets, the function looks like this :

Percent difference (in size of hole) = (bullet1_radius * bullet1_radius)/(bullet2_radius * bullet2_radius). The radius of a bullet is one half of the diameter (IE 9mm bullet radius is 4.5mm, 0.400" radius is 0.200", etc.). Gun writers who tell you the 45ACP is 'only 27 percent larger than the 9mm' are either misinformed or are intentionally misleading.

JE223

.32 ACP is a back-up gun cartridge, for up close and personal, as a last resort. Think of it as the dagger in your boot from sword-carrying days.
In that role, it does what it was designed to do.
Any other role, give me a 38/9mm or bigger.
-David

Hi Biker,

Was a good flick though wasn't it?

Kevin

I own a copy, Kevin. I watch it at least once a week. Hell, thanks Friend!
I'm gonna go throw it in now!!

"Lo, there do I see my Father. Lo, there do I see my Mother, my Brothers and Sisters.
Lo, there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning.
Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, where the Brave may live forever".

The Scandanavian Biker

JE223, thanks for the info. I couldn't remember exactly what I saw. Maybe it was that .380 benefits more from a longer barrel than does .32ACP, or is more hamstringed by a shorter barrel than it. Not sure, and maybe not either, but I figured somebody would set me straight in this thread.

jmm

The only personal acquaintance I've had that was shot was with a cheap .25. He died defending his grocery store from robbers.

Hawkeye,
What holster is that you're wearing? Is it a Ctac? I've been wanting one, but I wanted to see a good pic of somebody wearing one first. Whatever that is, it does hold the pistol in nice and tight, by the looks of it.

I own a copy, Kevin. I watch it at least once a week. Hell, thanks Friend!
I'm gonna go throw it in now!!

Click to expand...

Gorram it! Now I've gotta go watch it again, too! Thanks , Kevin!

"He says the 13th man must be no Northman."
"What the Hell are you saying?!"

It's too weak for me, as a first choice. As a last choice, I'll take it.

meef, I have seen an x-ray of an incoming inmate who set off the BOSS chair - NAA mini revolver up his wazoo. See, you DO have concealment options!

Click to expand...

Well....okay.

But I bet it would shoot like crap.

As for .32 being more concealable than larger calibers, that depends more on the gun than it does on the caliber. Amazing how small of guns the larger calibers can come in these days!

Click to expand...

Sure, but then a .32 ACP can be put into smaller packages than before. Advances in materials and design help all calibers. Maybe proportionally the larger calibers benefit more, but the smaller calibers still benefit.

Now I've heard it all............

Click to expand...

Yet still true. Nothing is 100%, not even rifle and shotgun rounds. Add the fact that any justifiable threat is immediate and the effects must be too. Compared to a one ounce slug handgun rounds look weak for the most part. Yes, I know you can pull out a ballistics chart on the .500 S&W.

Many good posts....I have a Kel-tec .32 and enjoy it very much. It is not a weapon that I shoot hundreds of rounds through every range trip but I am confident it will hit POA when needed. I only carry FMJ 71 Grain to eliminate feeding concerns. I know it won't expand... big deal...it will penetrate!

Man I hear about people who know people who have been shot with this caliber and that caliber and lived so they won't carry THAT caliber, blah, blah, blah,,,
I know several people who have been shot with several different calibers and lived, myself included.
I knew several more who have been shot with different calibers and didn't live.
Here's the thing,,,,none of us who was shot and lived really wanted to do anything but lay down and groan after we were shot.
The majority of people on planet earth don't keep fighting once they receive a bullet wound.
The ones that do keep fighting are the reason I have occasional nightmares.
The only conclusion I have for those extrordinary encounters is to keep shooting the fu*ker or run like a race horse.

Gun Mag writer, don't remember who, said of the .25 calber something to the effect- "Imagine being stabbed by quarter inch steel rod, and tell me that wouldn't stop you." So each step up in caliber increases the rod size. My oppinon is that whatever hangun you use, the heaviest full metal jacket bullet available will penetrate, break bones, and generally make a mess of the recipient.

I know several people who have been shot with several different calibers and lived, myself included.

Click to expand...

Awright.... now I have to admit, you've got my curiosity up. Just how many different calibers have you been shot with? And what were they?

Slow, "Many good posts....I have a Kel-tec .32 and enjoy it very much. It is not a weapon that I shoot hundreds of rounds through every range trip but I am confident it will hit POA when needed. I only carry FMJ 71 Grain to eliminate feeding concerns. I know it won't expand... big deal...it will penetrate!"


Agreed 100%. A police detective told me long ago, if I had to use such a small caliber, step forward and place it directly under the BG's chin, pointing upward. My Keltec offers me peace-of-mind when I'm wearing clothing or in circumstances that I can't carry a larger caliber. I LOVE my .32acp Keltec!