.32 ACP too weak as a defensive round?

"Unless you are looking for trouble, the fact that you have a gun is vastly better than having no gun, regardless of what gun you have or how small it is!


I think it is beyond ridiculous that almost everyone on THR will give you way more of a hard time for carrying a .22lr or a .32ACP than if you were carrying no gun at all


Bring enough gun. If you can't or don't want to, bring the most gun that's comfortable. We can't all pack around AR15s and shotguns, so we pack what we can. No handgun is good enough for a fight. They are all better than being unarmed. "
__________________

Thank God for common sense people like Arbor and senior. It gets wearysome all the gun shop guru's and Gun's and Ammo magazine cult worshipers of the tactical gun of the month crowd. How many here have run into the mythical 250 pound Conan The Crack Addict who shrugs off pistol rounds like bug bites?

Not all of us have Jack Baur fantacies.

Nice to not get flamed for refusal to carry an M1 with a grenade launcher while out and arround! Perhaps we old timers are just not as well readup as others and still believe ANY gun will make people stop and think before mounting an attack on you

I feel great with my .32 in my pocket.

With the accuracy of my AP-MBP (Walther Clone) 32auto; I have total confidence in drilling 8 rounds of either Fiocchi FMJ or HP straight into COM. And I feel totally confident that it will penetrate enough to do the damage I am looking for.

As for switching from a 9mm to a 40sw; I hope the LE department wasn't ignorant enough to do it specifically because of such isolated cases. There are reports abound where a criminal is shot with 44 magnums and kept coming and even survived. And there are plenty of reports of people people shot and killed instantly with a 22LR. I can even show you footage video from highway patrol cars where the trooper and the bad guy exchanged 9 rounds of ammo at each other; from less than 25 feet away; and NEITHER ONE OF THEM was hit by a bullet.

There are a lot of reasons "Law Enforcement" shootouts don't go the way they should. And there's a lot of reasons for the "STORY" you get officially in the news. Most times, it's simply the shooter and the situation. Hand guns are NOT EFFICIENT weapons for killing people. But they are convenient to carry, so we do. And people DON'T get knocked down by being shot with a traditional self defense handgun caliber. Bigger bullets cause more damage. More energy gets the attention of the person being shot. Under normal situations, this attention getter creates the mental shock required to stop attacking and go into defensive mode. But as long as you are accurately hitting the target you are aiming at; and the bullet has enough velocity/energy to penetrate far enough into the person to hit a vital organ or the CNS; (Which the 32auto can definitely do); then the gun will work just fine. When the bad guy is strung out mentally or via chemically, even 357's and 44 mags have been know to NOT STOP the attacker.

It comes to comfort and availability, So everybody like (and this is a personal thing) you develop a favorite pistol that is comfortable to shoot. Some like .357, some like .40 and some like the 32 that fits in their short. It was good enough for bond, I'm sure that it can work form me. Did I mention that I like how it shoots.

My main objections to .32 ACP pistols are financial and logistical. There are some very small, lightweight .32 ACP pistols available, but they tend to be quite expensive (i.e. Seecamp). There are plenty of reasonably priced .32 ACP pistols available, but they tend to be as big and heavy as a .380 ACP.

And, at least around here, both .32 ACP and .380 ACP ammunition tends to be hard to find, and expensive - more expensive than 9mm.

cowart:

Respectfully, I think we all agree that a better choice in a self defense firearm is a pistol/revolver of greater caliber than either the 32 or 380 cal...

But for all practical purposes the only "real" concealable 9MM pistol is the exceeding fine, but exceedingly expensive Rohrbaugh.

Most folks just don't have the money, or if they have the money they don't have the inclination to spend $1000.00 - $1800.00 or more for a Rohrbaugh.

Leaving the only game in town in a seriously concealable 9MM pistol you are left with any of the current generation 32 cal. or 380 cal offerings.

Between the KelTecs, Beretta's, Rugers, North American Arms, Sigs, Kahrs, Micro Desert Eagles, Seecamps, and several others mouseguns I can't remember at the moment MOST folks can find SOMETHING that suits their purpose for cc carry.

True 32cal and 380cal ammo is expensive, and especially in the 380cal. right now often hard, or near impossible to find.. However, it's out there, and mouseguns by their vary nature are "carried a lot, shot a little", so you don't need to FIND too much of it to be in business with your mousegun choice.

For me personally I have, more or less at any given time, 6-7 excellent 9mm pistols, 4-5 38cal. snubbys (J-frames and D frame Colts) and at least one 45ACP and one 357mag to chose from.. These are all very nice choices, as I've given away, traded, or sold any pistol/revolver I didn't think had merit as to quality, dependability, and accuracy..

But when I pick up my car keys to leave the house I put my LWS380 in my back pocket (Hedley pocket holster) and I'm good to go. Before I got the LWS380 I felt just as protected with my LWS32...





Am I as well protected as if I had say, my CS45, along? Nope, but here in SE Ga. much of the year you simply cannot carry a larger firearm because of the heat and humidity.

For personal protection everyone has to pay his/her money, and make his/her choice in a cc carry firearm choice. But at least there are lots of choices, in several price ranges, that will conceal easily, and because of size and weight will be able to make the trip every time.

You can't do that with a larger firearm..

No offense to those who might disagree, and no offense to you personally.

Just my opinion.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

I searched for 9 months to find a pre-WWII PPK (.32 acp) that had no collector value as I wanted a "James Bond plinker."

I finally found one in with some light pitting on the slide; apart from that, it is a gem; the fit and finish are superb, a real piece of craftsmanship. The double action pull is a bit heavy, but smooth, and no detriment to accuracy.

With Fiocchi 73 gr fmj ammo, it will shoot into one ragged hole at 50 feet; it's accurate, pleasant to shoot, and loads of fun!

Would I carry it for self defense?

I would and I have, due to familiarity and ease of use, which inspire confidence.

I like this gun so much that I ordered a Kel-tec in .32 acp, since I have plenty of .32 ammo lying about. The PPK is nice, but the Kel-tec fits in a jeans pocket much more easily.

As for the PPK, it's just really cool. Someone brought it home from WWII. So who owned it? Some resistance fighter?

Ahh, the stories this old girl could tell if she could only talk... =)

The 32acp definitely isnt a powerhouse round but it will still put a .30 caliber hole in you. Thats all thats needed to kill you if said hole is in the right place.

Ive seen enough people shot with pistols, and know a few who have shot people with pistols, to know its all about placement. Standard pistol rounds are just to weak to be considered reliable "manstoppers". The human body can be very resilient as long as the vital parts are still intact. The heart isnt very big and protected by the rib cage and the brain stem is behind a lot of thick strong bone (from the front).

If you are carrying any reasonable self defense pistol and expect it to drop a bad guy like the hammer of Thor, you are watching to many movies. Sometimes they will drop DRT, but most of the time they wont.

Know thats not to say they arent a good defensive option. Of the cases I have worked or know people that worked it, I can only remember one person taking good shots and still continuing their actions, and that was a victim defending himself.

Senior you need to work the streets before you stick your neck out. You have had no street experience at all I can tell. Only one caliber 10mm. HA HA HA HEEE HEEE HEE. You stand and exchange fire thinking thats all you need? I think You need to shoot a few things with a high power rifle. That may help you understand the only thing thats a sure stop is to vaporize them with weapons like rpg's.


Jim

Jmusic, I never intended to sound like I was Dirty Harry, or a forensic expert, all I am is a avg. man who doesn't go out looking for the drug lords or serial killers, such as yourself, i see. Never have, and hope to never have to whip out a cannon and exchange gunfire with the world of desperate most wanted killers! That being said, I see no reason to carry a 10mm or 44 mag. "THAT WILL BLOW YOUR HEAD CLEAN OFF" weapon. I still say a .32 will most often see u through a situation that AVG. folks find themselves in, if they ever do! By the way, my hats off to u and others like yourself who choose to work that kind of life to protect we people who are ignorant of the ways of the streets and how "the real world" escapes my limited knowledge. OHHHH, BY THE WAY, I have been known to pop a few rifle caps in my day.

"Real manly men sneer at anything less than a .45! And really really manly manly men use a .50 BMG! You are just a sissy-boy and a girley-man if you don't carry a big gun."

---Ahnold

So I guess its OK for your daughter...and me.

This .32 didn't get me of my feet and it were the paramedics that told me a second round went true my arm (I honestly hadn't noticed).



Could these .32's have killed me ? Sure, I was just lucky.
Fact remains, the BG ran away with his SCORPION because I kept closing on him with a KNIFE !
Don't underestimate the effect of adrenaline or overestimate your ability to deliver 'shot placement' when SHTF.

ZEN.45's post does away with the "non-penetration" myth concerning the .32acp. We see it penetrates just fine.

I've yet to see or hear of any of those who scoff at the .32 offer themselves as targets to prove their point either!!! To many i beleive bought into that macho man image of Dirty Harry. I agree bigger is better, BUT stick a gun in a mans face and the hole in that barrel will look like it weighs 5 lbs!

It's not the size that matters... its how you use it.

... at least that is what I try to tell my wife.

How could one NOT carry a .32? Probability of 9 rounds being shot from a Colt .32 without a hitch? 100% (never had a glitch with either gun.) Probability of having to shoot a guy in self defense? Probably less than 1% in most people's lifetime. Probability of a bad guy taking 6 to the brisket (and three more to the face if he gets WAY too close) and still fighting? Probably less than 5%. 95% stopper? Do your own probability calculations! (That might be better than most 1 or 2 hits from a .45 or .40) If I have emptied the gun, and he is still coming, I can always drive the slide/barrel into his eyesocket. Stopping a threat to my life with an ivory handled Colt .32? PRICELESS ...............................................................................................................................[/IMG]

Actually, real manly men can carry a .32acp pistol for self defense. They know its capabilies and can shoot it accurately and are not caught up in the "one shot stop" myth and the knock down power bull**** of the 45.

Then i do beleive most of us agree, with lots of practice a man with a .32 can do a heck of a lot of damage and screw up a BGs day pretty darn bad ,regardless of how some feel about it being worthless.

the x-ray shows that if that slug had been 2" to the right then zen would be paralyzed very likely.
I carry a .32acp Beretta when lightly dressed. can hit a softball sized target at 20' off hand. at 10' no doubt I could put 'em in the snot locker.

Respectfully Folks,

A small caliber firearm carried for self defense is basically a "carried a lot", "shot a little" last resort self defense tool..

The only reason a person is carrying a 32acp or 380kurz firearm to begin with is either because wx, wardrobe, or other circumstances simply do not allow for a larger caliber firearm to be carried concealed, or for whatever reason that mousegun is the only firearm available to that person.

NOBODY I've ever talked to thinks a small caliber round beats a larger caliber round when push comes to shove.

I live in S.E. Ga and it is hotter than the fringes of hell here in the summer months.. There is simply no way the average person can carry a larger pistol/revolver, comfortably, or well concealed easier than he/she can a small mousegun, such as the Seecamp, or other small firearm.

My suggestion is that you carry the largest caliber firearm you CAN shoot well, and that will conceal easily for you. If that happens to be a "cocked and locked" full size 1911 go for it. We all know and love, and respect the 45ACP round and it's one I would chose in a potentially deadly confrontation had I a choice and it HAD to be a pistol/revolver round.

For me personally, and keep in mind I'm an old fart senior citizen with shaky hands and crappy vision, I do all of my practice at what I consider MY personal "self defense" range... That practice with my larger caliber firearms starts at around 7 yards and ends at 0-3 yards with my Seecamps.

I'm thinking "last ditch", get off me distance... If a bg will give me running space, I'll hobble my tired old butt down the road, but if not given that choice I intend to "pull/point/shoot" that sucker at center mass until my LWS380, or whatever I'm carrying at that moment runs dry..

Do I think a 32acp is too weak as a defensive round.. Hell yes.. I also think a 44mag round is insufficient too.. I think the bare minimum in self defense firepower that is almost guaranteed to get somebody off your butt is a 12ga. pump shotgun primed with several rounds of 00 buck, or #4 buck..



But I have trouble hiding either of my riot shotguns in my waistband, or back pocket, so I have to rely on what I CAN carry, and it's either my LWS32 or LWS380.

If some young buck needs the $22.00 I have in my wallet, he/she can have it. But if that person is determined to hurt me in the process, then I intend to do my own live testing of the small caliber round for myself, and I'm pretty sure, pretty sure, 6+1 rounds of Speer Gold Dot jhp's will, under most circumstances, be sufficient.

Certainly more effective than those "flying ashtray" 45ACP rounds in my CS45 back at home.

Just personal opinion, no offense.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

The only reason a person is carrying a 32acp or 380kurz firearm to begin with is either because wx, wardrobe, or other circumstances simply do not allow for a larger caliber firearm to be carried concealed, or for whatever reason that mousegun is the only firearm available to that person.

Click to expand...

"The only reason" ????
Not to be contentious or anything, but those are not the only reasons people carry a .32acp or .380acp.
(BTW: .380acp is also called 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Corto, 9mm Short, 9x17, etc....but never 380kurz).
I know quite a number of people (including myself) who carry a "mousegun" by way of preference, not for any of the above mentioned "only reason".
I have a couple dozen carry guns to choose from in seven different cartridge chamberings, but a .32acp pistol is usually in my waistband. It's by choice, not due to a lack of alternatives readily available.

jackstinson:

Pardon me..

I should have said "one" reason.

Thank you for your correction of the proper usage of "Kurtz", I'm from Georgia so I have enough trouble with the English language without getting too excited about whether a seldom used German word has a "z" on it or not.. But I should certainly have known to use 9mm Kur-whatever vs 380 whatever..

My mistake, sorry.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

I really enjoy shooting the 'big boomer' pistols. the most powerful I have is a .45acp 'Super' 625 that handles the hot .45 easy enough as it's built on the .44 Mag frame.
a shooting buddy has owned a succesion of 'big boomers' and loads his own for them. .44 Mags, .454 Casull, and .50 AE. he has a similar 'fixation' I suppose could be said. I've really enjoyed shooting his handguns and never once have I had to use shooting gloves. I have large hands and work in the trades so a good grip I do have. many times I've shot his pistols better than anyone in our shooting group can. if I had my preferences I think I'd carry my 625 with .45acp +P loads or my 5906 w/the +P loads.
but reality is what it is and my favorite carry is my Makarov loaded with a hot XTP handload in the spout and hot fmj in the mag.
the aforementioned buddy has as favorite a .380acp with his hot handloads. when not practical to carry that he has a .38 double bbl derringer.
when lightly dressed (shorts and t-shirt) my Tomcat .32acp is neccesary to avoid unwanted attention. I can shoot it well enough that I keep it in my pocket around my place whenever I'm outside but I have that Makarov just inside my door if needed.

I like my Kel Tec P32 with a 10 round x- mag. Flat, very light, easy to grip, light recoil. Fits just fine in my jean front pocket with the clip.