10mm for an outdoors caliber?

[Strykervet]

I love my tens. I have a G20, a G29, and a 1006. For a woods pistol, any of them would suffice, with the G29 lending itself well to conceal carry otherwise --I can IWB it just as easy as a G27. It is the best all around really, if I could only have one that would be it. The 1006 is the most powerful, can handle the most powerful loads, but the G20 ain't no joke either and with 15 rounds it is something else. The 10mm will work on anything alive in the 48 states (and Hawaii too, but in Alaska you need different gear). The Hornady 200gr. FMJ's will give the most penetration, the 180 Gold Dots the most violent expansion. At full 10mm velocities, the lighter bullets probably don't hold up well, they work best in .40's. 180 XTP's and 200 XTP's are real accurate and they expand, but penetrate best of all the 10mm JHP's. The power for the 10mm actually lies between the .357 and .41 mags for most rounds, especially when barrel length is considered, and usually the 180's generate the most energy; I've never gotten a 155 fast enough to surpass it, and 155's just aren't the best in tens. I've clocked 180gr. Gold Dots at 1344fps with no sign of problems in the brass. Know that factory ammo is watered down for the most part, 10mm is a handloader's round.

They make 200 and 220 grain (I think) hard cast lead bullets. I bet those would do the trick no doubt, but you'd need a 1006 or similar to handle heavy loads with lead bullets. I wouldn't trust a Glock with those, but the Glock shines with the heavy Hornady bullets, and those will be more than enough I bet.

Off track, but if you want light, Smith and Wesson makes a new .44mag scandium frame, stainless cylinder "Backpacker" or "Alaskan" or whatever. I checked it out, it is pretty nice, good trigger, light, and with a 3" or so barrel, nice and compact. Great for hiking. The 329PD looks nice too, I want one, but beware, those light revolvers have BRUTAL recoil.

Then again, my .357 6" 686+ drives lead at some ridiculous speeds, but you have to use the slow burning N110 to get 'em that fast. Either one will work, but if you handload and like semi autos, a G20 or G29 is a lot of fun.

 

[Casefull]

My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

I would be impressed if most could outshoot that Ruger at 50yrds with a Glock

I have a 6 inch wolf barrel on my g20 in 40sw. It puts out a 180g xtp at 1430fps with about half the powder you need with your 357. That is a chronoed load not from a book. It will push the 180 at 1500 with the 4.5inch barrel in 10mm. I shoot 44 magnum and 454 casul and the 10mm is not the equal of the 44 but is definitely between the 357 and the 44mag.

 

[357 Terms]

Have you actually chronographed this load or are you just going off what the manual says the velocity should be?

I have a chrony and have been loading for years! Thousands of rounds and many, many different powders and bullets.

If you doubt me just check for yourself.

 

[357 Terms]

I have a 6 inch wolf barrel on my g20 in 40sw. It puts out a 180g xtp at 1430fps

180grn .40 at 1430fps?.....wear eye protection!

 

[MCgunner]

Which is more powerful, .357 vs 10, comes down to barrel length, really. I handload, but would hate to chase 10mm brass around. That's one thing I don't like about autos. My carry autos are in common calibers, 9x19 and .45ACP, and I usually come home with more brass than I left with. 10 would NOT be that way, I'm afraid.

I prefer revolvers for field carry, anyway, either single or double action, no matter. A K frame .357 is all I'll ever need. I have a .45 Colt Blackhawk, but there are no griz anywhere I've been hiking. .357 is plenty.

Another reason I prefer revolvers for outdoor guns is accuracy. GENERALLY (I know, I have a Ruger KP90DC that will refute this statement) are more accurate than autos. The one G20 I've fired was an accurate, if large, gun. My fav 4" Taurus 66 is a 1" at 25 yards gun. Shoots pleasing little clusters with .38 Wadcutter or 140 Speer JHP, and a certain Hornady XTP 180 JHP load. It'll shoot all my fave handloads under 2". That's as good as I can shoot a gun from a bench. The revolver is probably more accurate, but my eyes aren't with iron sights. To kill something, one first must HIT it. A sitting rabbit at 25 yards makes for tasty camp meat (been there, done that) with a .38 round that accurate. With a 10 that's 4" at 25 accurate, maybe not. Accuracy is in the gun, of course, and poor accuracy is NOT a Glock trait in my experience, but I have no experience with EEA. Now, a 10mm 1911 that can shoot 2" 25 yard groups will also be picky about ammo and cleanliness as well as lubrication.

But, then, a bear at 25 yards and closing would be a big target and a high cap, fast firing auto might be more to your liking. It's all in the needs and wants, but for me, revolvers get it done afield.

 

[MCgunner]

My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

Same here, 13.8 grains AA#9 and a 180 XTP. I get, IIRC, 1402 fps average 10 shots, about 785 ft lbs. It's also VERY accurate. This is my .357 hunting revolver/load. I have carried it afield, but a k frame is a might easier on the hip on a long hike.

This load puts a hog down RIGHT NOW put in the boiler room.

BTW, this load pretty much duplicates Buffalo Bore's results. I'm not sure why anyone would doubt it. The .41 magnum can reach over 1000 ft lbs, is in a higher class than 10 or .357. 10 and .357 are ballistically fraternal twins. Like I say, though, it does depend on barrel length. Get down under 4" and .357 starts to lose steam fast.

 

[K1500]

I like my G20sf more than my .357's or .44's for most woods use. I have the 329pd and it is nice to carry but hard to shoot well for me. The G20 is the most accurate Glock I have shot and hits harder than a .357 with 15+1 capacity, more rugged action, and a flatter carry profile. What's not to like?

 

[rcmodel]

Like I said.
It throws it's 3 for a $1.00 empty cases in the Poison Ivy bushes!

Alright!
Just playing devils advocate with everyone.

I carry a Glock 23 a lot in the woods.

But we don't have Griz or T-Rex here, and .40 S&W cases are a dime a dozen, or free.

rc

 

[Skribs]

So if you don't reload...what's not to like?

 

[jmr40]

It throws it's 3 for a $1.00 empty cases in the Poison Ivy bushes!

No ivy bushes at the range. I can find 99% of my brass without much problem. If I'm shooting to save my life, finding my brass is of no concern.

Actually the 40, 9mm, 45, or almost anything is as good as the 10mm for most situations.

When I carry a gun in the woods, it is for exactly the same reason I carry one in town. My main concern is SD from other humans. My 1st criteria is a gun that will work well in that role. That is why I'm not a huge fan of big heavy large bore revolvers even as an outdoors gun. That might be a better choice in grizzly country, but you wouldn't want a 6" 44 mag on your hip in town.

I spend a lot of time hiking and camping in very remote places here in GA and parts of TN and NC. If there are no black bear in the area, I'm most likely to carry either a G-26 or G19. In bear areas the G20 is only slightly larger, and certainly much smaller and lighter than almost any revolver. It works quite well against the primary threat, humans, but offers 16 rounds of hot 357 mag performance in the very rare chance of a bear encounter.

A smaller 357 mag is my 2nd choice, and not really that bad. The ammo capacity is where the auto wins though. In many places where I would be there is no cell service and I'd be a 2 day hike to a road and help if a situation arises.

 

[MCgunner]

No ivy bushes at the range. I can find 99% of my brass without much problem. If I'm shooting to save my life, finding my brass is of no concern.

You don't consider a revolver capable? Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.

So if you don't reload...what's not to like?

Well, price of ammo? Just a guess. How about finding ammo loaded to the 10s potential, not some watered down FBI .40S&W equivalent load? How's about finding ammo at a LGS at all? Just some thoughts.

Personally, I will own no Glock. They're accurate, don't like the "safe action" nor the fact that they won't shoot my hand cast bullets, polygonal rifling. I shoot 90 percent my own cast stuff and my revolvers work fine with 'em. My hot cast bullet is a gas checked Lee SWC that weighs 165 grains with the gas check attached. I push it along at 1470 fps from my Blackhawk, a little less from my 4" Taurus 66. Accurate load and using range scrap, they cost me under 3 bucks a box. But, then, I DO reload.

 

[Inebriated]

Appreciate the responses and discussions! Reading every post!

 

[wow6599]

Third, I reload, and revolvers don't chuck .30 cents ea. empty brass into the poison ivy where I can't find it.

This is exactly why I got out of 10mm. I would get upset after firing a couple hundred rds and only find 150 pieces of "precious" brass. If if was more widely available, or not so expensive, I would still be all over the 10mm cartridge.

Now it's a Ruger and Marlin combo in .357 for the woods......

 

[hardluk1]

There are loads that will use a 180gr at high 1600fps+ 357 mag loads. But you do Not want to shot them in a mid size S&W. They are ment for 8"+ barrels sw model 27 maybe, dw and freedom to squeeze out the extra velocity . But all loading bs aside the 10mm makes for a good trail or woods defence handgun, high capacity and light weight. For hunting dangerous game it will need a barrel change for hard cast bullets or lead for soft loads. It would be nice to have a better barrel in general when talking about maxed loads an a glocks unstupported chambers.. If hunting a like loaded 357 simply has better down range ballistics too.

Many revolvers could shoot 3" groups at 100yards given a good shooter on a optic site.

Buy for the intended primary purpose. Different calibers and handgun designs for different jobs.

Reality a 158gr nosler sp at 1300 fps will do the job on any deer, bear or hog in NC with in bow hunting ranges, 40 yards. 165gr xtp 10mm hp should do the same thang at 1300fps. need more power buy a big boy magnum. I never messed with loading a 10mm but have loaded 357's to 1680fps with 180gr lswcgc in my 8" DW. Did nothing better than the same bullet at 1200 fps except make the revolver way more unmanageable with the hotter rounds. That is not a fun load.

 

[Skribs]

You don't consider a revolver capable? Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.

I personally don't see an ADVANTAGE to the revolver for someone like me in this situation. I don't reload, so the brass isn't an issue. Ammo price and availability are valid concerns. At Cabelas, a G20 and a GP100 (which is what I would go with if I got a revolver) are within $50 of each other, with the Glock being the cheaper one. Accuracy on both, if I am carrying them, is going to be better than what I can personally shoot.

So...you also bring up the point that the advantages of a Glock won't apply in this situation, either (mainly the capacity). The weight is a comfort issue.

At that point, it boils down to personal preference. I prefer semi-autos to revolvers unless I am CCW under a t-shirt.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I personally don't see an ADVANTAGE to the revolver

If you're anticipating using a handgun against an attacking animal, recall that revolvers don't go out of battery on muzzle-contact shots, and don't jam if the slide is in contact with something.

Other than that, I like the 10 in a G20 or G29 for outdoors. Or indoors. As long as there aren't any big bears in either place.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php glock rifle

 

[Skribs]

Good point LH. Springfield needs a 10mm XDM.

Also, revolvers can't use the .50 GI conversion kit if you want to. Even though 99.99% of Glock 20 owners probably don't (I would).

 

[jem375]

deleted

 

[Casefull]

Hope you got the info you wanted. Unfortunately it is impossible to state any facts without stepping on someones ego. The fact that the only way to dispute the positives of the 10mm is to drag revolvers into the discussion. When you have to change the context you have already blown it. I have no dog in the fight because I have gone from revolvers to autos and shoot both. My casull revolver has unmatched workmanship and is very powerful and accurate...so what. The op asked about 10mm. It all reminds me of high school boys talking about how fast their cars are. In case anyone noticed the military and police left the revolver scene a lifetime ago. But what do they know.

 

[Loosedhorse]

When you have to change the context you have already blown it.

No one has changed the context. The context was "outdoors," and the OP mentioned "a K-frame has 6 or 7 rounds of .357".

There are reasons that backwoods guns are traditionally revolvers, and even the 10mm doesn't change those. Sorry if your ox got gored.

 

[.338Sako]

for my g20 I use truglow tfo (tritium fiber optic) best of both worlds imho

 

[jmr40]

You don't consider a revolver capable?

Read the whole post, I said,

A smaller 357 mag is my 2nd choice, and not really that bad.

I also said:

When I carry a gun in the woods, it is for exactly the same reason I carry one in town. My main concern is SD from other humans. My 1st criteria is a gun that will work well in that role.

A large framed, long barreled revolver is an excellent hunting tool, and I said so in an earlier post. But that would be a poor choice for CC when in town. A smaller 357 would be better and could do double duty in the rare event of a larger animal encounter. As would a semi that equals or beats the 357 revolver in power, and from a smaller, lighter package. Bear attacks are way down on my list of concerns, but there is no sense in not being prepared.

Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.

My concern is not 16 rounds for a bear, but additional ammo in a remote situation where I'm totally on my own and possibly a 2 day walk from help if I needed to use my gun. But FYI, I would not stop shooting just because a bear is chewing on me. Which brings me to this gem.

revolvers don't go out of battery on muzzle-contact shots, and don't jam if the slide is in contact with something.

If you are close enough for this to be a probelm with a semi, you are close enough for the cylinder to bind and not turn or to get animal fur between the hammer and frame. Pick your poison, either could malfunction.

Not that the 357 mag revolver is a bad choice, it isn't. I choose a G-20 for this role based on several factors. I've had WAY more revolvers malfunction on me than Semi's. Glocks in particular. Revolvers are especially prone to problems involving dirty conditions encountered in the outdoors. The G-20 is about the same size and weight as a 3" Ruger SP101, with better ballistics than any 4" revolver. Holding 3X as much ammo is just a bonus.

The revolver wins on pure accuracy, and even on power if you want to carry a 6" or longer barrel. But as I stated in an earlier post I can keep all my shots on a human head sized target out to 50 yards. That is as much accuracy as I need.

 

[Skribs]

jmr, it's not QUITE 3x the amount of ammo. A G20 will hold, correct me if I'm wrong, 15+1, and the GP100 will hold 6 (6x3 = 18).

That said, I do agree with you, and I assume you rounded up

 

[1stmarine]

Think about what bullet you need. What speed you need in that bullet and then decide on what case /platform is the best for that goal.
The 10mm is a great cartridge but the venerable 357 bullets are hard to beat in terms of external and terminal ballistics.