12ga shotgun vs. 2 boats of Pirates

[Ivy Mike]

Makes you wonder what a shotgun slug would do to the bottom of a boat hull.

Get to a high area on your boat and try it when they get close enough. You'd cut the boarding force by one as they would need to leave one guy behind to bail water.

 

[TechBrute]

I've always liked the Coast Guard's McMillan .50s with the EOTech on the top for disabling fast boats from the helicopter. Of course a boat isn't as good a shooting platform as a helicopter, but I'd sure give it a go. Try for their engine with the .50, lay down some MBR fire, stroke them with the shotgun, and then plink at them with the pistol.

 

[Travis McGee]

A few thoughts:
/1/ Legally, a shotgun is easiest to declare as you visit countries around the world. Declaring an AR-15 is like declaring C-4 or Heroin in many places. Many countries ban military calibers, PERIOD. No 9mm, .45ACP, 5.56, 7.62X39, 7.62NATO etc. Besides a "legally safe" shotgun, obsolete milsurps are a good bet. An Enfield in .303 (obsolete caliber) could be called your "shark gun."

/2/ Accuracy on land is not like accuracy at sea. An M1A is no more likely to get aimed hits at long range than a Mini-14. You adjust by your splashes. Shooting from a boat is like shooting from the roof of an SUV, as it lurches over bumpy fields. ALL shooting is "off hand." You cannot "rest" a rifle, since the boat is moving in all directions at once, pitching, rolling and yawing.

/3/ Some folks will buy an AK-47 in "indian country" in a street purchase, and then ditch it when returning to "civilization."

/4/ An expensive rifle which is legal in America can be a liability overseas. Are you going to toss your $1500 tricked out AR-15 over the side, to avoid legal problems or jail in some 3rd world country, if that is the best course of action? A mini-14 or Enfield will be easier to deep-six, if that is your smartest move.

 

[carebear]

Great points Travis. Anybody interested in piracy primarily in the Indonesia/Malaysia mallacca Straits are should read "dangerous Waters" by John Burnett.

FWIW, Barrett does make a pintle mount for their .50's and the pintle's are milsurp items that just bolt on, and isn't there that semi-auto M60 beltfed still out there?

 

[Texian Pistolero]

While many think piracy is a thing of the past, it is alive and well in many parts of the globe.

You are in the open ocean, and only the rule of gun is in effect.

Even the big oil tankers are vulnerable. They are run by skeleton crews, with basically the same training as your local Seven - 11 clerk.

The pirates do need acrobatic conditioning, gear and traing, but this is not insurmountable.

 

[Travis McGee]

Carebear: In my experience, pintle mounts don't work so great on small craft. Yes, they are needed for belt fed weapons on boats, but that assumes you have Uncle Sam buying you 1000s of rounds, because 99% of your slugs are going to miss. For a civilian, being realistic, we are talking small arms fired off hand.

I'd go with a pump 12 guage, .303 Enfield, and a cheap semi auto like a Mini-14 or SKS, which I would be prepared to toss overboad in certain cases, to avoid legal problems.

For handguns, revolvers are looked upon MUCH more kindly in foreign countries than pistols. Especially avoid the "military calibers" of 9mm etc, since they are often banned outright. A .38/357 would be fine, for clearing customs, and defending against the typical threat: a boarding by a guy waving a machete at anchor at midnight.

 

[jlwatts3]

Back in the '70s my dad's boss retired, built himself a concrete hulled boat, and sailed around the world. Ended up neing attacked by pirated off of Indo or the Phillipines (I forget). Don't know what kind of armaments he had, but he sunk their ship and sailed off into the sunset.

 

[beerslurpy]

That blows about actually having to obey the gun laws of every place you merely dock while the pirates naturally have machine guns and the advantage of numbers.

Why doesnt the US Navy have to follow the gun laws of other nations when their warships dock? Do we have some sort of reciprocity? Why doesnt it extend to civilian ships?

 

[Trebor]

What are the laws regarding firearms declared as "Ship's equipment" for ships flagged to a country? I've heard that you have much more legal leeway if your ship is actually flagged to a country as oppossed to just being registered within a state in the U.S. and that firearms carried as "ship's equipment" and listed on some sort of ship's paperwork have certain legal protections not available if you just carry a gun in a boat registered within a state but not flagged as a U.S. vessel.

I'm in Michigan near the Canadian border and even though I'd only operate on the Great Lakes, it's near impossible to guarantee that I'd always be in U.S. waters and Canadian gun laws are draconian.

Anyone know the answer or know where I can get a real answer?

 

[JamisJockey]

Trebor:
Check with the coast guard, and Canadas version of such.


Beerslurpy:
because that's just the way it is.

Id just mount a ma deuce or a twin-linked mg42 (anti-air) with every 10th round a tracer. If someone tries to rob you, you just send a few thousand beefy AP rounds their direction and turn their little boats into collanders.

And you'd be arrested in one of the first ports you pulled into with that setup.

BoyScout:
I'd say, no. Your bullet already has X lateral momentum, which is the same as the lateral momentum as the target. Just like if you're moving, and the target is moving faster, X is less than if youre standing still.
You account for wave action just like you were moving shooting a stationary target, by leading your shots in proportion to the movement.

Travis:
Good pictures, got any more?


My boating experience mostly is aboard a large Hatteras Sportfish in US and International waters. Never went too far from No Carolina or VA. There was always a 12ga, and a couple stainless Beretta 92FS's nearby. The primary purpose was dispatching big toothy fish, sporting clays, and seagulls (usually over my head while I was cleaning the catch)

 

[Charico]

Pirates

In answer to the question whether this really happened, I believe the answer is yes. I know Rod Nowlin and the Mahdi. He and his wife sailed into the harbor at our island (Lelu, Kosrae FSM) in the Pacific. He carried a shotgun on board for protection. They are both nice and honest people. At that time I was the attorney general and boarded their yacht on a few occassions to check on welfare and socialize. If anybody knows their e-mail address for contact please let me know.

Rick

 

[DRZinn]

How's this: ya mount an eye-bolt below the waterline, directly below some kind of "landmark" on the hull. Ya tie a line to that, and the other end to a waterproof container with your guns in it. Gotta hide 'em? Just drop 'em in the water. Otherwise the container can be mounted up top in some sort of quick-release rig.

 

[CUTENAME]

Stay out of dock in "iffy" countries as long as you can.

.30-06 hunt-guns, and many other "pieces" fire "military" ammo.
If I had a yacht, I'd sure as heck have a few elephant caliber rifles.
Semi-auto is the only way to go. With 2 0r 3 thousand rounds,
stashed on board, "spray-&-pray" is a realistic option. Try to
decapitate their helmsman first, if you have a choice shot. Also,
a dozen or so gallon wine-jugs (it's MY, and MY wine!) full of gasoline,
a well-placed shot with your Glock, followed by 12-ga flares would
make a neat floating bar-be-que in short order. Take no prisoners.
If it's an option, retrieve their weapons and ammo for "souvenirs."
In grosser conditions, if you encounter RPGs up against you, bear
in mind the field testing of the vintage RPGs at use in pirate hands,
usually arm by inertia when launched, self-detonate in 15~20 seconds,
and won't fly much farther than 100 yards on a real good day. Even
a sloppy "marksman" can over-balance those odds, with an SKS,
Model 70, and a boat-load (no pun intended) of other popular pieces.
"My" yacht will have 500% better stability in the water, over some
skiff run by punk lawn-jockeys. CUTENAME.

 

[jonboynumba1]

The 12ga is a LOT of gun when you are inside or inside 40 yards. You can stretch that with slugs...but 0-40 is it's forte' and used within it's limitations it is what I call "wrath of God" knockdown power. It's also cheap and travels well...why would you NOT have a shotgun with you in any given vehicle? You can buy em used for less than $200 afterall....OK not the same thing I have at home...but my wifes I think we have $70 in (basic 20ga Mossy 500 cutt-down to 19"-ish shortened LOP and limbsaver pad fitted. 5+1 rounds + another 5 on the buttstock shellholder (OK I guess we have $75 in it-LOL) Put it in a guitar case or baseball gear bag (where that is legal) and you can walk right into your hotel with it at night.

Short of that...I bet a stainless Mini and some factory 20 round mags are on that guys christmas list this year! Cause sometimes the best deffense is never letting them GET within shotgun distance of you...of course that is easier said than done most times in the real world...but still....you can never have TOO MUCH firepower...and most sailboats have plenty of places to hide stuff...maybe get a folding stock if need be. I bet they'd have given their eye teeth for some HG's at that moment to! Gotta love things you can handle and shoot with ONE hand and still hold onto or manipulate a vehicle off and on.

never too much firepower and never enough cover! But when all else fails...ALL the good guys should at least have a shotgun! I'm glad they did this time...I'd bet they are to!

 

[KBintheSLC]

Great story... Amazing how the tables turn when the good guys are armed.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

somebody busted out an AED and brought this one back...

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I get a 30/30 non military and fast shooting and handeling plus the shotgun and 38.

 

[grumpycoconut]

Shotguns make a ton of sense on boats. Buckshot is a great stopper and if you have a barrel tricked out by Hans Vang you can easily make hits out to 100 yards. No BS there. I've done it with a 14 inch mossberg using reduced recoil winchester ranger ammo. Slugs are good in an anti materiel role and ain't too shabby in the anti personnel arena. The coolest thing is that you can easily make this instrument of destruction into a happy and harmless boating rescue tool by buying the $645 line launcher kit from Mossberg. Stashing a barrel has got to be a whole lot easier than stashing a whole shotgun when you are entering unfriendly waters like those around Canadia

 

[FM12]

Don't forget a good sword and fighting knife!!

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

"Ballistics question...

assuming you and your pursuers were moving at an equal speed in a stern chase (i.e. rate of closure = 0), would you have to lead the target at all?

Would you correct for wind as a result of motion the same way you correct for wind as weather? "

Yes, you'd correct for wind in the exact same way. The physics of it are identical. It's called "apparent wind" and it would have the exact same effects as a breeze while standing still.

If the wind is coming from directly behind or in front of you, and the pirates are directly behind/in front of you(like trying to catch up) you wouldn't have to take it into account at all. However, if they are to the side of you, with a head or tailwind, it would affect the path of the bullet.

For instance: If you've got a wind coming from in front of you at 10 knots, and you're driving into it at 10 knots, it feels like its blowing 20 knots. If there is a boat to one side going the same speed you are, you'd have to correct your shooting as if you had a 20 knot crosswind... but if they're moving too, you'd probably have to lead them a little bit.

Here's an interesting scenario though: if you're motoring at 10 knots. And the wind is coming from the REAR at 10 knots. There is no apparent wind. At all. None. So no matter which direction they are and whatever the range, the wind is going to have no effect on it, you'd just have to lead them if they are moving in relation to you.

Which, by the way, you only have to lead them if they are moving IN RELATION TO YOU. If they are going the same speed and in the same direction as you...they aren't really even moving at all. They are at the same distance and in the same direction you were looking a few seconds ago. So you'd just have to take the APPARENT wind into account.

 

[SSN Vet]

imporvise, adapt, overcome....

Sand the decks and prepair to repell boarders....

I'm glad to see that there's an American out there somewhere who can still show these goons what a fighting spirit looks like.

Let's recalculate the power balance hear.

Peace loving seamen kill pirates... pirates lose

Pirates kill their potential hostages and severely damage the prize.... pirates lose.

Going to sea has never been a business for the faint of heart.

 

[ChaoSS]

What's with all the recent necrothreadia as of late?


Just want to point out though, I don't know if it's been said, I stopped reading when I realized the age of this thread, the navy does have the right to interfere with piracy. It's in the constitution.

 

[cleardiddion]

Apparantly Gandalf owns.

 

[FM12]

SSNVet: hit em with a line throwing gun!!And amonkey fist when close aboard! FM12 former TM3(SS) Boomer rider

 

[Zoogster]

Well interestingly enough the laws have changed since this article and guns laws are much more restrictive in Yemen due primarily to European and US antis pressuring their government for change. These third world nations are no match for the well funded antis of the US and Europe who make local ties and push these agendas.


This same action may have been a crime today. Since 2005 several gun restrictions and bans have been enacted in Yemen.


Yemen was once a popular location for private owners to register vessels (like Panama). The biggest reason was favorable financial laws, but a huge bonus was things like great gun laws, previously the best in the world.
This mean that while under a Yemeni flag at sea you used to have a lot of firearm freedom. Far more than a vessel operating under US law.
The USA has all sorts of crazy restrictions on import and export, as well as other laws that make it a lot less free for your boat to call home.
So it was great that Yemen had some of the best firearm laws in the world even if you didn't plan to spend time in Yemen.


From IANSA (International Action Network on Small Arms, anti gun group funded by people such as George Soros and several anti-gun governments.)

Yemen moves to stop gun sales

Nurses campaign for tighter gun laws. Their placards say "Let knowledge be our weapon", and "Let's make Yemen a weapon-free land" © IRIN

More than 85 firearms dealers have been closed down in Yemen, under orders from the Ministry of Interior. The Head of the Ministry's Information Centre, Ahmed Hayel, said the closures were ordered for “security reasons,” and financial compensation would awarded to gunshop owners. There are estimated to be 300 gun shops and around 15 large arms markets in Yemen. Government sources say they intend to clamp down on all outlets.

The decision to close down the gunshops comes after the parliament approved an amendment to toughen the gun laws and ban the carrying of weapons in public places.

IANSA member Dar Al-Salaam Organisation to Combat Revenge and Violence, which has campaigned hard for the amendment, said it is ‘delighted’. Yemen has the second highest rate of civilian gun possession in the world, with at least 32 guns per 100 people. As a result of the amendments, current firearms owners will need to apply for a license and register their weapons at police stations. Carrying guns has been prohibited in the capital, Sana’a since April 2007 but now the prohibition will apply throughout the country, including tribal areas.

Many members of parliament who are tribal sheikhs opposed the ban, saying citizens need to carry weapons for self-defence. However, public opinion is said to favour the ban as a means of reducing tribal violence, accidental shootings and armed crime. The limited ban already in place has been credited with a dramatic reduction in shootings. The Ministry of the Interior hopes that a reduction in gun crime will encourage tourism.

The next step for the Dar Al-Salaam Organisation is to work with the government on developing an effective computerised national gun register.

YEMEN: Despite ban on arms, activists warn of increasing violence

Government attempts

Yemen’s Interior Minister, Rashad al-Alemi, said on 7 July that the government had formed committees to count and document firearms and ammunition belonging to security and military forces. The weapons’ serial numbers will be registered in a database so that they can be detected should they be found in the wrong hands. He said this process would take about six months.

Al-Alemi added that the next phase would involve the government giving civilians a six-month period to give up their weapons for good.

Late April, the government decided to close down all markets that sell weapons, ammunition and fireworks after clashes escalated between government forces and followers of dissident Shia preacher Abdul-Malik al-Houthi in Saada, a province in the country’s north.