1911 vs Glock: the foot in the bees' nest

[David E]

I chose the Glock to represent the polymer pistol arena because it is probably the best of any of them, but for most of my points you could sub in whatever. Same for the 1911. You could probably sub in a beretta for most of the points as well.

Then it's not much of a "Glock vs. 1911" discussion, is it !

Now, lets talk about weight. (edited) Straight out of the box, 1911s are going to way more than a Glock 21 or 21sf.

Misspelling basic words doesn't lend credibility to your statements.

I think I'll stop now, you're wrong on so many counts, it's not even a challenge to debate you.

I did like that Winchester ammo poster, tho, since I just bought some Bonded .40 180 grain.

 

[backntotheleft]

im a lefty and i have NEVER had ANY problems mentioned that "supposedly" plague lefties. the Glock is a dandy pistol but come on, put it up against a 1911, i say the 1911 wins every time. but to play the devils advocate its still comparing apples to oranges. the Glock has been the best polymer pistol for years. i think ( notice im going on opinion here) the new FNP45 is where the bar is at now. a good discussion would be GLOCK versus the FNP45. hint hint! now you're cookin with lard!

 

[REAPER4206969]

the Glock is a dandy pistol but come on, put it up against a 1911, i say the 1911 wins every time.

O'rly?

the new FNP45 is where the bar is at now.

The FNP is not even in the game, no less raising the bar. What military or police use the FNP?

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

LOve the cartoon

 

[dec41971]

One observation. Lots of arm chair LEOs in here for sure. And they are outnumbered only by imaginary ballistics experts.

 

[REAPER4206969]

One observation. Lots of arm chair LEOs in here for sure. And they are outnumbered only by imaginary ballistics experts.

Explain.

 

[evan price]

Awww, sweet diety, not this stuff again....!


I've got a 1911 and a GLock, both in .45 acp...
They stay in the safe a lot. I carry a Sig P220 in .45 acp.
Figure how that fits into the Glock V. 1911 discussion.

 

[Magnumite]

There is the comparison of a specific Glock model to the whole genre of 1911's. Sort of stifles valid academic exercise. As usual, it comes down to what the shooter feels comfortable with and what fills the requirements of the intended use.

I personally am a 44 Magnum and 45 ACP fan. I feel very comfortable with 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 9mm Luger or 40 S&W (not my favorite, give me the 45 out of preference) for concealed carry. Then I choose on grounds of the gun filling the need, and ammo/component availability, not so much the caliber. I also don't have problems with 32 ACP, 380 or even a 22LR deep concealment item (not to be used alone).

Just match the tool to the need.

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm a southpaw and a die-hard 1911 fan. Never had a problem with brass, gases, or safety use. The "thumb" safety flicks off with an index finger just as easily if you practice. Mags easily eject with an index finger, too.

And, as others have said, ambi safeties are cheap and easy to acquire and install if needed.

Easier to release the slide (using the index finger) if you're shooting one-handed.

 

[jamestlester]

-taken from hipowersandhandguns.com-
Let's take a gander at some other loads for both calibers and see how they stack up against each other.

Speer's excellent 9mm 124-gr. Gold Dot (std. pressure) chronographs 1109 ft/sec on the nose from one of my Mk III Hi Powers. The same company's standard pressure .45 ACP 230-gr. Gold Dot averaged 856 ft/sec fired from a 5" STI Trojan. Both of these bullets will normally expand in tissue due to very good engineering and design and fragmentation is practically non-existent. (I am not necessarily saying that fragmentation is bad, but only that it is a variable that has been removed in this bullet comparison. FWIW, the +P version of the 9mm load hits 1200 ft/sec on the nose from the same Hi Power, but let's look at standard pressure loads to keep it "apples to apples.") In this case, the twice-as-heavy .45 bullet has 77% of the 9mm's velocity, still in that 3/4-comparison ballpark.

When both of these rounds are fired into calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin, now considered the gold standard for expansion/penetration testing, the following results are usually the norm when 4" 9mm pistols are compared to 5" 45's.

The 124-gr. Speer 9mm Gold Dot averages about 13" penetration and expands to approximately .57".

The 230-gr. 45 ACP Gold Dot averages approximately 13.5 - 14" and expands to right at .70".

Because of its higher velocity, the recovered 9mm Gold Dot bullet's final expanded diameter is often slightly smaller than at some point in its expansion because the expanded bullet folds rearward more than the slower .45 ACP.

Using these real world figures, let's take a closer look.

The expanded 9mm 124-gr. Gold's frontal area measures approximately 0.25 sq. inches compared to the .45's frontal expanded area of .38 sq. inches. So while the expanded diameter of the 9mm is about 81% that of the larger caliber's, the resulting frontal area of the 9mm is 66% that of the 45's. I don't find these results surprising. Remember, the same company made both bullets and this design is considered one of the best currently available. The .45 ACP unexpanded frontal area started off 60% greater than the 9mm's. The 9mm would have to expand quite a lot more proportionally compared to the .45 to wind up with the same diameter. The problem is that in normal trim, the bullet would be very much like a pancake in shape and might very well not hit the 12" minimum penetration depths considered essential by many.

 

[Art Eatman]

The best handgun is the one with which you can most regularly hit your intended target.

I've owned or shot most every handgun but a Sig. Life's just worked out that way. I keep going back to my 1911; after sixty years, my hand is used to it. And I prefer the single-action trigger.

I bought a gun collection with included a Glock in .45ACP, whatever model that is. I could hit with it. No problem. But I just didn't like the feel all that much. And, for my own sense of aesthetics, it's ugly. I thus took my profit and went on down the road, not worrying further.

I figure folks oughta buy and use whatever critter suits them. If they can do what they want insofar as hitting the target, hey, great. They have the best pistol ever made--for them.

 

[jamestlester]

David E, are you going to ignore my post because I misspelled one word and said that the Glock is similar to the s&w m&p or the springfield XD?

 

[jahwarrior]

the major differences in Glocks and 1911s are that Glocks are more 'user-friendly', and are easier to carry, in terms of weight.

if it weren't for the grip, i would own a Glock. they just don't feel comfortable in my hands. 1911s are perfect, for me.

the rest of the OP is full of inaccuracies, and opinion posing as fact.

 

[Lou McGopher]

Not true.

I looked more closely at your table. 45+P acp (see attached) beats it by 5-30% in every category.

As you can see from the chart, the 9mm +P will penetrate 22" of steel, whereas the .45 will penetrate only 14.8" of steel.

 

[dwave]

Misspelling basic words doesn't lend credibility to your statements.

1st: He didn't misspell. Way is the proper spelling of that word, he used the wrong word

2nd: Spelling does not correlate to intelligence. I cannot spell at all, but I have a 3.835 GPA in college. Explain that one. Heck I misspelled correlate and intelligence, but I used Firefox's built in spell checker.

3rd: Just saying that he is wrong with no facts to back up your statement doesn't look well either.

 

[JAREDSHS]

I gotta go back out to the lobby for more popcorn and a fresh drink........

 

[Quack]

 

[Nate1778]

Cap-N-Crunch Vs Coco Puffs


It is safe to say there are many cereals out there, but for comparison sake we'll take two of the best for this showdown. :banghead:

 

[JTQ]

geniusiknowit wrote,

As you can see from the chart, the 9mm +P will penetrate 22" of steel, whereas the .45 will penetrate only 14.8" of steel.

Excellent point. I had over looked that "factoid" on the chart.

Why do we spend so much money on those 30mm armor piercing depleted uranium rounds for the A-10 Thunderbolt, when we could just shoot those tanks with a 9mm M9. I suppose those tanks must have armor thicker than 22".

 

[Fiv3r]

This is an unwinable "debate" because most of the points presented are just too dang subjective

Some guys like a light gun because it doesn't pull their pants down. Some guys like a heavy gun because it manages recoil better for them.

Some guys like the grip angle of the 1911. Some like the Glock.

Some people enjoy carrying a gorgeous piece of art crafted out of steel and wood. Some rather like the fact that their gun is a tool with no bells, whistles, or frills.

At the end of the day, there is no "better" only what you are most comfortable with, what suits your carrying needs, and of course what you can hit your target with.

I really, really dig 1911's. However, I wouldn't carry one daily because I like light guns that don't bother me to scratch up. For me, the subcompact little Glock 36 fits the bill fantastically. I shove it in my holster and forget about it. It had the right features at the right price and pointed well for me.

Guns are good There doesn't need to be so much infighting. Pick what ya like and shoot straight. It's not the gun, it's the shooter. Believe me, their total jack@sses that shoot Glocks and total j@ckasses that shoot 1911's. I've met both

 

[backntotheleft]

The FNP is not even in the game, no less raising the bar. What military or police use the FNP?

Sir if you would do your homework you would know that over 70% of our armed forces use FNH weapons EVERYDAY! also several "special forces" units are using them as we speak. i dont know how familiar you are with our government processes but it takes years and a LOT of testing and retesting before any firearm makes it into our service mens hands. Presently the FNH pistols are currently up for the option of replacing the H&K pistols in the hands of specific Special forces.

 

[Gryffydd]

45 ACP beats the crap out of pretty much everything.

Forget the chart Reaper, all you have to say is

10MM

 

[jamestlester]

I think 10mm is on par, if not beats 45 ACP. That's why I edited my first post. And, a pistol's philosophy of use is NOT to punch through steel, but to get maximum expansion after penetrating 12 inches of flesh. 9mm +P ammo has 33% less expanded surface area after twelve inches penetration than that of 45 ACP. Maximum penetration is not the goal of pistol ammo. In the end, the caliber that leaves the biggest hole wins.

 

[Teddyb]

This is not a caliber debate, please read the OP before you jump in.

 

[Gryffydd]

This is not a caliber debate, please read the OP before you jump in.

I did. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to comment on other posts besides the OP's.
Sorry.