1911 vs Glock: the foot in the bees' nest

Status
Not open for further replies.
I started the thread off by saying it was a comparison between the glock 21 and 1911 (for the sake of the discussion chambered in 45 ACP, I know 1911 clones can be chambered in different calibers.); both of which are chambered in 45 ACP.

I got sidetracked when members debated the benefits of 45 ACP ammo when compared to 9mm. But again, it is a comparison between a 1911 chambered in 45 auto and a glock 21 or 21sf.
 
But again, it is a comparison between a 1911 chambered in 45 auto and a glock 21 or 21sf.
I thought it was a comparison between steel framed handguns and polymer ones.
Well, I hoped to shed some light on both pistols and help people in their decision making process. I chose the Glock to represent the polymer pistol arena because it is probably the best of any of them, but for most of my points you could sub in whatever. Same for the 1911. You could probably sub in a beretta for most of the points as well.
I can't think of much else the Beretta has in common with the 1911.
Sorry, couldn't resist :D
 
Okay, what the heck, I'll play....

For starters, lets talk cartridge....
Thus, the bigger, slower, more expansive tumbling bullet with the more stopping power is ideal.
No.
Bigger and slower is not necessarily more effective.
For example: the 125g .357 magnum round competes extremely well (often better) than the bigger and slower .45ACP round when it comes to stopping human aggressors.

The .45ACP requires a large frame pistol and typically has less magazine capacity than a pistol in .40, .357 SIG, or 9mm.
The .45ACP offers more bulk, less rounds, and no better performance whatsoever

Now, lets talk about weight....
For an everyday carry gun, weight is a very important factor.
A heavy gun is a gun that most likely will remain in the car or on the nightstand.

In terms of pointability, the 1911 is more pointable out of the box....
Bottom line: the Glock will take more training to get on the same level of pointability achievable with the 1911.
While this might be true for yourself, it is certainly not true for everyone.
In my hands, the 1911 has no greater "pointability" than a Glock.
The Glock is a natural pointer for me.

In terms of accuracy, the 1911 wins out of the box. It has a better trigger pull than that of a Glock.
Not true.
The Glock trigger is not as crisp as the 1911's but the sights on the typical 1911 are rather poor.
I remember the sights on my Army issued 1911 were tiny and sucked.

As for conceilability, the 1911 wins hands down.
It has a slimmer, inline frame whereas the Glock has a fatter and boxier frame, plus the Glock magazines are harder to conceal meaning most people won't have their extra mags in critical situations.
The 1911 might conceal slightly better, but neither full sized pistol will conceal all that well, and the weight will constantly pull ones pants down.
The fact is this:
Neither the 1911 nor the Glock G21 were ever designed to be carried concealed.

Magazine capacity is a little tricky.
No, it's not really tricky at all.
The .45ACP is a big fat bullet and it requires a big fat magazine that fits in to a big fat handle.
In order to make a grip that is comfortable to most folks, the 1911 had to be designed to hold less rounds.
In similar sized guns, more rounds are better than less rounds, ALWAYS!
This is why the 9mm, the .40S&W, or the .357Sig is often preferred over the .45ACP.

Dependability is where the Glock design gets its stars.
Yep!

And don't forget simplicity of operation too.
No manual safety to bother with....just draw, aim, and shoot.

Looks are completely dependent on the person. Some dudes are "wood and steel ONLY" and others try to be "tacticool", but most folks would say the 1911 is better looking and more imposing.
I would agree that some 1911's are prettier than a Glock.
But certainly not "more imposing".

IN my humble opinion....
For an affordable, reliable, easy to maintain, easy to operate, easy to obtain parts and accessories for, easy to make repairs on, easy to shoot, accurate, easy to carry self defense pistol, one would be much better served with a Glock 19 (9mm) or Glock 23 (.40S&W) or Glock 32 (.357SIG) than a full-sized steel 1911.
 
The Glock trigger is not as crisp as the 1911's but the sights on the typical 1911 are rather poor.
I'm not even sure what a "typical" 1911 even is. The sights on both being easily customizable I don't know what the point of this comparison is. Most 1911s that anybody is likely to carry will have excellent sights. The mil-spec reproduction types won't, but that's not really their goal anyway.
I remember the sights on my Army issued 1911 were tiny and sucked.
A highly atypical 1911 right there.
A heavy gun is a gun that most likely will remain in the car or on the nightstand.
That depends on your definition of heavy and each person's tolerance I guess. I prefer carrying my 5" all steel 1911 over my XD Subcompact despite it being much heavier, as it sits IWB much more easily.

the weight will constantly pull ones pants down.
B-E-L-T
Get a good one and this problem vanishes.
 
I remember the sights on my Army issued 1911 were tiny and sucked.

A highly atypical 1911 right there.
Highly atypical???
Are you serious?

The standard Army issued 1911 was the most produced version of the 1911 ever.
It is THE typical 1911.


the weight will constantly pull ones pants down.
B-E-L-T
Get a good one and this problem vanishes.
proper gun belt + good holster = no problem carrying a 1911.
Nope!
I've tried all kinds of belts....there's just no getting around the fact that the all steel 1911 is a boat anchor of a pistol.

Of course full-sized Glocks aren't exactly a breeze to carry either.

Maybe it's the size and shape of my butt (flat and small, as my wife often reminds me), but I find a shoulder rig to be best for a heavier full-sized pistol.
 
Highly atypical???
Are you serious?
Yes. read this part again:
Most 1911s that anybody is likely to carry will have excellent sights. The mil-spec reproduction types won't, but that's not really their goal anyway.
The standard army issued 1911 may have been the most produced ever, but that doesn't mean they're very common these days, especially for people looking for a carry gun. Walk into any gun dealership and tell me the ratio of army issue style 1911s to modern variants with excellent sights. You'll find 1 or 2 mil-spec reproductions and dozens of models with Novak and other similar sights.
It WAS the typical 1911...30 years ago.

Nope!
I've tried all kinds of belts....there's just no getting around the fact that the all steel 1911 is a boat anchor of a pistol.
Sorry it hasn't worked out for you. That's why I specified that every person's tolerance is different. I sometimes forget I even have my 1911 on me.
 
The .45ACP offers more bulk, less rounds, and no better performance whatsoever
Did you read the ballistic comparison post? The 45 acp cartridge has 33 PERCENT more surface area after 12 inches of penetration than the 9mm cartridge.
John Browning developed the 1911 in response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War. The then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.

sounds like LA. Maybe thats why the police commisioners of the LAPD invited their officers to trade up from a 9mm beretta to a Glock of a higher caliber with more stopping power.
 
I have shot my 1911 and Glock 29, both in 10mm back-to-back. The 1911 holds 9+1, the Glock 10+1. Both always went "bang", but the Glock seemed like a toy in comparison.

However, the Glock excels in situations where I might fall in a creek while hiking or have a gun lost traveling by air. :D
 
I wonder if the world will ever be big enough so 1911 and Glock owners can peacefully coexist! John Moses Browning and Gaston Glock are the best handgun designers to come along in 100 years. I wonder what we will see next 100 years to bicker about! lol
 
In a "sand" test done by a very prominent 1911 builder and military individual, the 1911 outperformed the Glock in immersion in sand, clearing and then shooting drills. Mud tests would have yielded similar results perhaps.
 
I wonder if the world will ever be big enough so 1911 and Glock owners can peacefully coexist!
We can coexist, and in fact many people are in both categories. However, there will always be fanboys of both, no matter what happens.
 
What exactly did Gaston invent? Polymer? nope. Polygonal rifling? nope. The striker fired mechanism? nope. Lets not put JMB and Gaston Glock on the same level. Gaston borrowed heavily from other designers, including JMB, to create and iconic weapon but that doesn't make him one of the best designers in the last 100 years. Glocks would have a lot more credibility if people would just let it stand on its own merits rather than constantly trying to hype it into something it just isn't.
 
Here we go again! I will put Gaston Glock any place I want too, with all due respect. Since the world of handguns is now going Polymer, I feel your pain. Glock is the most successfully designed and best accepted pistol to date by just sales numbers alone. They may be cloning the 1911 but they are ALL imitating the Glock design to the point of getting sued by them. i.e Glock v Smith&Wesson.

I really like the 1911 design but it has runs it course of usefulness as illustrated by the US Department of Defense with the M 9 contract to Beretta. I am sure you did not like that either. We ain't riding horses or at war in the Philippines any more either. Time marches on my friend and the hands of the clock only go in one direction.
 
Sorry to disappoint you but the conversation is over for me! lol
 

Attachments

  • image0011.jpg
    image0011.jpg
    19.9 KB · Views: 13
They may be cloning the 1911 but they are ALL imitating the Glock design to the point of getting sued by them. i.e Glock v Smith&Wesson.
If that were true, they'd ALL be getting sued....and they're not.

Oh, and this

Glock is the most successfully designed and best accepted pistol to date by just sales numbers alone.
"Best selling" almost NEVER equals "BEST"

I really like the 1911 design but it has runs it course of usefulness as illustrated by the US Department of Defense with the M 9 contract to Beretta.
This had very little to do with the intrinsic virtues or lack thereof of the 1911. Especially for people who aren't buying 450,000 guns and sharing ammo with allied countries etc. etc.

The Glock is a fantastic tool. So's the 1911. Why the need to elevate either to something magical?

And why all these Glock fanatics with low post counts/recent join dates in just the last couple of weeks?
 
I can't fathom the logic where Glock stole everyone else's ideas and now they are copying the ideas that he stole for his own design??????

Dang, that kool-aid must be good!!!!!
 
Did you read the ballistic comparison post? The 45 acp cartridge has 33 PERCENT more surface area after 12 inches of penetration than the 9mm cartridge.
I noticed that in the test data the test guns are not listed.
In just about every test I've ever seen, the .45ACP test gun is almost always a 1911 with a 5" barrel.
And the test guns for the .40S&W, the 357SIG, and the 9mm are almost always ones with 4" barrels....sometimes even 3.5" barrels.

I've never seen any testing where the .45ACP outperformed the .40S&W or the 357SIG when using equal barrel lengths and standard pressure rounds.

John Browning developed the 1911 in response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War. The then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable..
Actually, this is not true.
The vast majority of U.S. troops fighting in the Philippines did not even carry handguns at all.
With a few exceptions, only officers typically carried handguns.
And this did not change once the 1911 was adopted by the U.S. military....
Even today relatively few military personnel carry handguns.
 
Good Golly Miss Molly! There are more experts in here than a Chinese Fire Drill in the House of Representatives. This stuff really gets funny. I know I am laughing!

This thread is hijacked and gone to hell.........and away goes trouble down the drain! LOL!!.....:uhoh:
 
What exactly did Gaston invent? Polymer? nope. Polygonal rifling? nope. The striker fired mechanism? nope. Lets not put JMB and Gaston Glock on the same level. Gaston borrowed heavily from other designers, including JMB, to create and iconic weapon but that doesn't make him one of the best designers in the last 100 years. Glocks would have a lot more credibility if people would just let it stand on its own merits rather than constantly trying to hype it into something it just isn't.

+1
Glock's are nice firearms, but they have there place among other pistols like the sig, berretta, hk, kahr ruger and so on.. the 1911 is on another level...
 
"We ain't riding horses or at war in the Philippines any more either."
And the human body and its reaction to being shot has changed in nearly 100 years?
Yarrite...
Furthermore, some will debate the 9mm is as effective as the 45. But no one will ever debate the 45 is as inadequate as the 9mm (if that is postured for debate).

"...the 1911 design but it has runs it course of usefulness as illustrated by the US Department of Defense with the M 9... "
Done for the sake of fulfilling NATO treat conditions. And our most elite forces use the modern rendition of the 1911 pistol in 45 ACP caliber. Clones of the 1911 are popping up faster than any Glock wannabees.

The sincerest form of flattery is imitation.

I have nothing against Glocks, but since this beaten horse has been freshly watered and fed....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top