1911 vs Glock: the foot in the bees' nest

[Guillermo]

The application matters. For some things the Glock Rocks. For others the 1911 is unsurpassed.

Kicking the nest or not, the job is what demands the tool, not the preference of the mechanic

 

[Gryffydd]

But no one will ever debate the 45 is as inadequate as the 9mm (if that is postured for debate).

I will. So will many others. ALL handgun defensive rounds are "inadequate" compromises.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Good God! How did I miss another Glock v. 1911 thread?

My personal perspective:

[1] IMO, we tend to focus too much on the tool. We get in extensive discussions about which gun or which ammunition or which caliber is best. But I've come to believe that any gun of good quality that is reliable and accurate in a meaningful caliber will do IF -- you can manage it, you get good training and practice regularly. Conversely, no type of gun will make up for inadequate training and practice.

I'm a strong believer in good professional training for anyone who is considering owning, and especially carrying, a gun for protection. It's partially a matter of being able to skillfully use it under stress. It's also a matter of understanding one's personal responsibility and the applicable law. Jeff Cooper used to say: "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully."

[2] My preference is a 1911. I have a number of them and lean toward either a commander size or a CCO style (commander size top end on the shorter officer size frame. All my 1911s are in .45 ACP.

I like the 1911 because I shoot it well and have a lot of experience with one. I've used a 1911 for USPSA competition in the Limited Division. And I've trained a lot with it, including regularly taking classes.

Glocks are good pistols. I just don't mange them that well. The 10mm and .45 ACP versions are simply too big through the grip. I have smallish hands and a short trigger reach. I can handle a Glock 19 in 9mm reasonably well, but still prefer my 1911s.

 

[gc70]

I really like the 1911 design but it has runs it course of usefulness

I guess you 1911 types heard that; it's time to get rid of those ancient guns since they are no longer useful.

John Moses Browning and Gaston Glock are the best handgun designers to come along in 100 years.

In designing handguns, Browning innovated and Glock immitated.

In marketing handguns, Browning was inept and Glock is a genius.

 

[Magnumite]

"ALL handgun defensive rounds are "inadequate" compromises"

And how would you compare the 9mm to the 45?

I understand the inadequate nature of handgun rounds in general. That wasn't my reference.

I personally don't have an issue with either round. I do have a preference. I could debate either way. Statistically, they both are comparable in soft tissue using modern ammunition and I know bullet placement is the predominant factor.
But at the velocities of these rounds, weight and diameter wins. Even the GI's are asking for the 45 again.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Both the 1911 and the Glock are fine weapons but neither one does anything for me. I've never had any luck with 1911s. I shot my bed with the last one I had. I LOVE the simplicity of the design and the customizable nature of the weapon but I just can't make them work me. Things might be different if I spent $1200 bucks on one but that is hard to justify for me. The Glock 21, even in its SF form, is just too FAT. It has nice capacity but the slide is fat, the grip is fat, and I just can't see wanting to carry around something that large and uncomfortable. Is it a fine weapon? YES, but there are other platforms that do the job just as well what aren't so bulky and unwieldy. Personally I'd vote for the P220 if I was looking for a 45acp platform. But thats just me. Some will swear by either the 1911 or the G21 but both are very different in purpose to me. I doubt very much you would ever find a consensus on the two.

 

[android]

I will someday own a 1911 because of its historical significance and they look cool. Doubt I would carry one. There are better, more concealable and ambi guns available for that these days. To carry a gun "for emergencies" that you can't operate exactly the same with either hand is really stupid in my opinion, but to each his own.

I doubt I'll ever own a Glock. I'll certainly never spend my hard earned money on one. I'd take one if somebody gave me one. I do need to hammer in some nails every once in a while.

 

[jamestlester]

haha. I love both. If I had $500 I'd buy a 21 sf. I have a 1911 not for cc, but for riding "shotgun" in the car. I can point better with a 1911, so it is my gun of choice. If I wanted a cc gun, I'd get a small framed glock in 40 or 45 ACP, or, if I'm rich one day, maybe 45 GAP.

I bought my 1911 not only because it is used by special forces, has a (debatably) more effective round, but also because it is a piece of history. Mine was made military issue in WW1. And finally, I bought it because it fit MY hand. It may not fit your hand. But buy a pistol, or any firearm for that matter, that FITS. If you can't hold it you can't shoot it.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the two piece trigger safety was a design from an earlier pistol too. So basically every design element of the Glock was stolen from someone else. JMBs designs were original and laid the groundwork for generations of firearms INCLUDING the tilting barrel of the Glock. Compare the weapons yes, the designers NO thanks.

One advantage the 1911 has over the GLock is the pure customization of the 1911. By simply changing parts you can change its grip shape to suit your hand. The Glock can not do that. Any of you guys that carry can also appreciate what a difference a SLIM weapon makes on the hip. Regardless of its weight a G21 will never carry or conceal like a 1911.

I also agree with James, given a choice I would prefer to have both.

 

[Gryffydd]

Compare the weapons yes, the designers NO thanks.

Not to mention Gaston has only one thing, cobbled together from earlier designs: a semi-automatic pistol.
JMB has pocket pistols, combat pistols, lever rifles, pump rifles, semi-auto rifles, automatic rifles, light machine guns, heavy machine guns etc. etc.

Then of course there's the cartridges list:

JMB:
* .25 ACP
* .32 ACP
* .38 ACP
* 9mm Browning Long
* .380 ACP
* .45 ACP
* .50 BMG

Gaston Glock
....
.45 GAP

But in any case, this isn't really what this thread is about...

 

[jon_in_wv]

Maybe he invented those cheap plastic white outline rear sights he puts on the Glocks. Or the screw in plastic front sights. You have to love those.

OH yeah, the 45 GAP was designed by Ernest Durham at CCI/Speer. But I'm sure Glock can be given credit for that too!

I know, he invented the KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gryffydd]

OH yeah, the 45 GAP was designed by Ernest Durham at CCI/Speer.

Good point...

Plus, I'm sure it was a very difficult process...trimming those .45ACP cases and all
j/k

I think the point we're getting at here is that Gaston is a brilliant marketing man. Engineer/designer....not so much.

 

[Patrick R]

A Glock will cost you about $500.00. A 1911 that cost $500.00 will be a GI or Mil speck.

These low dollar 1911s leave alot to be desired.

Cheap 1911 weights 1 whole pound more than the Glock. Also have heavy triggers & web bite.

Now pour $2500.00 into 1911s & you have a great shooting weapon.

Same for the Glock (Different frames, triggers, barrels etc)

Guns are fun.

 

[easyg]

I bought my 1911 not only because it is used by special forces,...

Are you sure that the U.S. Army Special Forces are using 1911's?

They sure weren't using them when I was a soldier (1986-1992).
They were using the Beretta 9mm.

has a (debatably) more effective round,

More effective than what, a .45ACP Glock???

Mine was made military issue in WW1.

You should get some better sights on it.
The issued 1911's have tiny crappy sights.

 

[easyg]

Maybe he invented those cheap plastic white outline rear sights he puts on the Glocks. Or the screw in plastic front sights. You have to love those.

Say what you like, but the stock sights on a Glock work!

They are more accurate than most shooters.

 

[jon_in_wv]

So do the tiny ones on a Mil-Spec 1911. In fact, they are more accurate than most shooters too if there is such a thing. I've had less trouble shooting small sight than the busy looking sights on the Glock. Not to mention plastic sights can break or wear down which won't happen to steel ones. Seems like there is one heck of an aftermarket to replace Glock sights that work so well. No one said they don't "work", they just suck. (IMHO which is only worth what you make of it.)

 

[jamestlester]

Quote:
I bought my 1911 not only because it is used by special forces,...
Are you sure that the U.S. Army Special Forces are using 1911's?

They sure weren't using them when I was a soldier (1986-1992).
They were using the Beretta 9mm.

The 1911 continues to be chosen by SWAT, the green berets, and competitive shooters despite challenges by newer designs and technologies.

has a (debatably) more effective round,
More effective than what, a .45ACP Glock???

I was refering to a previous caliber discussion. I was comparing the 45 ACP round to the 9mm round. Sorry if I wasn't clear

Mine was made military issue in WW1.
You should get some better sights on it.
The issued 1911's have tiny crappy sights.

I did.

 

[jad0110]

 

[Magnumite]

jad...way to rock on that last post

 

[easyg]

The 1911 continues to be chosen by SWAT, the green berets, and competitive shooters despite challenges by newer designs and technologies.

I don't know what the U.S. Army Special Forces (aka: The Green Berets) are carrying today, but I did some work with 5th Group during the Gulf War and they were carrying the Beretta.

Can you provide a link to where you got this info?

 

[jamestlester]

-quoted from military.com-
After a long search for a .45 ACP caliber 1911 duty pistol, in 2002 the LAPD's SWAT team adopted a special version of the Kimber Custom II. Equipped with a few custom features over and above what already comes standard on a Kimber 1911, the LAPD Kimbers were issued to all of L.A.'s SWAT cops and are still providing excellent service.

Taking note of the LAPD's Kimber acquisition, the United States Marine Corps' Det-1 had ample opportunities to see and shoot these pistols, as the LAPD SWAT Team frequently trained at Camp Pendleton and a number of the SWAT cops were also former Marines. Getting ready to become part of SOCOM, Det-1 wanted a suitable CQB 1911 pistol for its 87 Warfighters to deploy with in Iraq; so, like the LAPD, it selected a Kimber pistol. Also adopted by Det-1 was a special limited edition MCSOCOM Knife designed by Strider.
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-wikipedia.com-
The MEU(SOC) pistol, officially designated the M-45 MEUSOC[5], is an air-cooled, magazine-fed, recoil-operated, single-action, semiautomatic handgun chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge. It is based on the original M1911 design by John Browning, and has been the standard-issue side arm for the Force Recon Element of the United States Marine Corps' Marine Expeditionary Units from 1985 to today.
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