.223 Self Defense

[newglockguy]

I was checking out scopes at Bass Pro and was browsing the ammo section when I saw some .223 hollow points. Are there any good .223 self defense rounds out there. I'm just kicking the idea around about getting some since I already have my Glock 23 with federal hydra-shock rounds loaded and ready to go.

 

[SpentCasing]

Seriously?

Since LE has almost universally dropped the shotgun in favor of the AR, ammo companies have put alot of resources in developing 223 loads for personal defense. Tons of great choices out there to fit your needs.

I trust my family's lives to Hornady TAP.

 

[Warp]

There are tons of good defensive rounds in .223 and 5.56. Often they are marketed for law enforcement.

First question: Do you have a 5.56 chamber, or .223?

Second question: Are you concerned with performance through an intermediate barrier? (ie windshield glass, car doors/bodies, interior walls, etc)

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

I went with:

 

[mljdeckard]

I concur with Hornady TAP entirely, but there are many good defensive loads. The TAP ammo has some advantages like nickle-plated casings to enhance reliability.

Some ammo is better-suited than others. The military uses steel-core bullets intended to penetrate ....lots of things. They have good reasons for using it, most of the rest of us want it to do the opposite. We want it to hit the bad guy, and have the lowest chance of injuring someone else on the other side. The 5.56 is probably about the best round you can get for this.

 

[Warp]

I concur with Hornady TAP entirely, but there are many good defensive loads. The TAP ammo has some advantages like nickle-plated casings to enhance reliability.

Some ammo is better-suited than others. The military uses steel-core bullets intended to penetrate ....lots of things. They have good reasons for using it, most of the rest of us want it to do the opposite. We want it to hit the bad guy, and have the lowest chance of injuring someone else on the other side. The 5.56 is probably about the best round you can get for this.

I believe that is incorrect.

The M855 round is a lead core with a steel penetrator cone. It is not steel core. There is a steel core round in that caliber, of course, but my understanding is that it is not commonly used...and is not the best performer on 'soft' targets. M855 isn't the best, either.

 

[mljdeckard]

In saying 'steel', all I meant was that it is designed to not expand.

 

[newglockguy]

Warp. I have a 5.56 barrel and I'm mildly concerned about penetration through a interior wall or window.

 

[Warp]

In saying 'steel', all I meant was that it is designed to not expand.

Say what you mean, mean what you say. It isn't steel core. Steel core is a thing, and M855 is not. (nor is any other regularly issued round, as per my understanding)

 

[Warp]

Warp. I have a 5.56 barrel and I'm mildly concerned about penetration through a interior wall or window.

What do you mean by being concerned about that? Are you worried about missed shots going through an interior wall and injuring somebody on the other side?

 

[mljdeckard]

I'll keep it in mind because being infuriatingly technical with people who are asking a simple question makes me feel.......swell.

 

[Warp]

I'll keep it in mind because being infuriatingly technical with people who are asking a simple question makes me feel.......swell.

Are you aware that steel core AP ammo is downright illegal in .223/5.56?

I am sorry you do not feel the need to be factually correct, but please do not take it out on me.

 

[jmr40]

Even FMJ 223 or 5.56 ammo is pretty good at not overpenetrating in building materials. Use softpoint or HP ammo and it is a better choice than either buckshot, slugs or most handgun ammo. You get better performance when you hit the target as well.

Using an AR type carbine beats a shotgun in every way except price, and there is less difference now than ever.

 

[3twelves]

.223 is great if you planned on getting attacked by a pack of rabid squirrels. Don't listen to people that recommend overpriced ($30 for 20) magic bullets. 7.62 if you want something dead.

 

[Warp]

Even FMJ 223 or 5.56 ammo is pretty good at not overpenetrating in building materials.

Correct.

Real world tests showing this can be found at http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Use softpoint or HP ammo and it is a better choice than either buckshot, slugs or most handgun ammo. You get better performance when you hit the target as well.

Using an AR type carbine beats a shotgun in every way except price, and there is less difference now than ever.

My AR has replaced my shotgun as my primary defensive long gun, including primary home defense duties.

 

[Kachok]

^ Um there is this invention called buckshot, you might want to look it up sometime, it is about the best cure ever for stupid people trying to do you harm.

 

[Warp]

^ Um there is this invention called buckshot, you might want to look it up sometime, it is about the best cure ever for stupid people trying to do you harm.

Nothing wrong with a shotgun and buckshot. A carbine does have some advantages over most shotguns, though.

A decent read:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

 

[Kachok]

Nothing wrong with a shotgun and buckshot. A carbine does have some advantages over most shotguns, though.

A decent read:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

I have used both (LE and US Army) and up close I prefer the shotgun, 223 fmj tends to be very inconsistant in it's wound tract. Now a 223 with some soft point or poly tip handloads would be a totaly different story.

 

[Warp]

I have used both (LE and US Army) and up close I prefer the shotgun, 223 fmj tends to be very inconsistant in it's wound tract. Now a 223 with some soft point or poly tip handloads would be a totaly different story.

Plenty of OTM/BTHP and soft point/exposed lead rounds in .223 and 5.56.

 

[Kachok]

Plenty of OTM/BTHP and soft point/exposed lead rounds in .223 and 5.56.

Many BTHP bullets are not designed to expand, such as the SMK and LS. I handload everything I use for hunting (except for 22LR and 12ga) and home defence because my QC standards are much higher then any factory

 

[jmr40]

^ Um there is this invention called buckshot, you might want to look it up sometime, it is about the best cure ever for stupid people trying to do you harm.

Buckshot works, but has serious negatives, and no advantages over a 223 round.

At home defense ranges the pattern is so tight that you might as well use a rifle.

Both rounds work about equally well, but buckshot has a VERY limited useful range. Inside of 10 yards a handgun is probably a better choice than either, and a carbine is just as effective as a shotgun because of the tight patterns at that range. Buckshot is at its best between 10-30 yards. At these ranges it is in a pattern large enough to make hits easier and still tight enough to put several pellets on target. Beyond 20-30 yards a rifle is always a better choice.

The carbine is smaller, more compact, lighter, and holds up to 6X more ammo.

The 223 rounds are LESS likely to overpenetrate and cause unwanted damage. It is safer for innocent bystanders.

Buckshot will deliver around 28-30 ft lbs of recoil vs 4-5 ft lbs of recoil for 223.

A shotguns ONLY advantantage is lower weapons cost. But the price of 223 ammo is far cheaper than buckshot making practice cheaper.

The shotgun is DEAD for LE and military use except for non-lethal loads and door breaching.

 

[Kachok]

Buckshot works, but has serious negatives, and no advantages over a 223 round.

At home defense ranges the pattern is so tight that you might as well use a rifle.

Both rounds work about equally well, but buckshot has a VERY limited useful range. Inside of 10 yards a handgun is probably a better choice than either, and a carbine is just as effective as a shotgun because of the tight patterns at that range. Buckshot is at its best between 10-30 yards. At these ranges it is in a pattern large enough to make hits easier and still tight enough to put several pellets on target. Beyond 20-30 yards a rifle is always a better choice.

The carbine is smaller, more compact, lighter, and holds up to 6X more ammo.

The 223 rounds are LESS likely to overpenetrate and cause unwanted damage. It is safer for innocent bystanders.

Buckshot will deliver around 28-30 ft lbs of recoil vs 4-5 ft lbs of recoil for 223.

A shotguns ONLY advantantage is lower weapons cost. But the price of 223 ammo is far cheaper than buckshot making practice cheaper.

The shotgun is DEAD for LE and military use except for non-lethal loads and door breaching.

???? Dead? I think not, there are many LE agencies that still use 12 ga shotguns including the one I worked for (yes with 00 buckshot not bean bags). You are right at very close range even an unchoked shotgun won't spread much (roughly 1" per yard in mine) but when I shoot Mr badguy I am striking several vital organs at once, buckshot hits very hard at close range, hard enough to throw off his aim for sure.
Soft lead shot (not the plated stuff) flattens out quite nicely on soft tissue, this improves soft tissue trauma and dramaticly reduces overpenatration.
While the recoil of a full power 12 ga is stout you won't even notice it in a fire fight.

 

[Kachok]

Don't get me wrong, I think the 223 is plenty enough gun for home defense, better then any handgun for sure, especaly with good rapid expansion bullets. But the 12 ga has it's place and within it's range it is as potent as it ever was.

 

[mastiffhound]

I just picked up some Nosler Varmageddon 55 grain .224 bullets to load up. I do worry about overpenetration, These will be my load. Out of my 16" carbine they will be going over 3000 fps and are designed to expand violently. Light recoil makes follow up shots(if needed) a breeze too. At room range I feel these will do the job, and if I miss (It happens!) I am less likely to hurt a loved one than with a FMJ. After doing my own tests with plywood, insulation and drywall I won't use pistol or rifle FMJs for home protection.

Hollow-points, soft points, and ballistic tips are my go to rounds. I like the varmint style bullets because they dump all their energy fast. I watched a test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCPjJTtDS6g that made me choose this route as over penetration is less probable. This was at 100 yards so 20 feet or less is no problem.

You can get Hornady ballistic tip loaded ammunition and many other brands. Or roll your own and get the most out of your AR

 

[Warp]

???? Dead? I think not, there are many LE agencies that still use 12 ga shotguns including the one I worked for (yes with 00 buckshot not bean bags). You are right at very close range even an unchoked shotgun won't spread much (roughly 1" per yard in mine) but when I shoot Mr badguy I am striking several vital organs at once, buckshot hits very hard at close range, hard enough to throw off his aim for sure.
Soft lead shot (not the plated stuff) flattens out quite nicely on soft tissue, this improves soft tissue trauma and dramaticly reduces overpenatration.

For LE use shotguns are:

*Less expensive
*More public/people friendly in appearance
*Established. Sometimes momentum and "the way we've always done it" wins out over what is actually better/best
*Less expensive

That said, I wouldn't argue against 00 or #1 buck being a better stopper at close range against a soft/unarmoured target, when compared to .223/5.56. But, as mentioned above, the carbine does offer some distinct advantages.

 

[gotigers]

I have read several articles and seen many videos of buckshot penetrating several sheetrock walls. Much more than a .223 will. Even done some testing (non scientific), myself.

Buckshot has a place. However, when my SBR is finished, it will replace my Moss 500 20" that has 7 rounds of BS. I have seen what BS does to several sheetrock walls. I pray i never need to defend my home, but using BS with family in the house is not optimal. Obvious, but true.

There is plenty of documentation thas shows 9mm penetrating more walls than .223.