.223 Self Defense
- Thread starter newglockguy
- Start date
- Status
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
RCmodel...no disrespect to you. I mean that. You clearly know guns. But far too many police departments are essentially "militarizing". I'm not saying that there isn't a need for some battle rifles in the police-world. But I'm in a particular position that allows me to see that my local police department is actually a para-military outfit.
No long ago there was an older gentlman who was making phony ID's in his trailer. He was in his late 50's, not in good shape, and didn't have a criminal record. But he was making false ID's and the cops had to move in. How'd they do it? Did thet send in a patrol car with a copule of deputies and a warrant? No, sadly the police sent in a police chopper where 3 "SWAT" officers rapelled (spelling?) in onto the roof of the trailer. The other TWENTY officers (that's righ...20) came in cars and one of those assault vehicles. AR's abounded! But they got their man, along with his $10 laminate machine and about 3 phony IDs. I was privy to the reports afterwards. There was never any mention about the possibility of weapons or armed resistance. I cannot to this day figure out why the police pulled off a military style operation. But I'll tell you, my local police never stop bitching about the lack of funds!
My uncle was a career policeman. I guess he was the Department SWAT guy too....just him and his Remy 700 in 30-06. The moral of my long-winded rant is this: SWAT guys want AR's because that's what the military uses. It's the cool thing.....plain and simple...........
No long ago there was an older gentlman who was making phony ID's in his trailer. He was in his late 50's, not in good shape, and didn't have a criminal record. But he was making false ID's and the cops had to move in. How'd they do it? Did thet send in a patrol car with a copule of deputies and a warrant? No, sadly the police sent in a police chopper where 3 "SWAT" officers rapelled (spelling?) in onto the roof of the trailer. The other TWENTY officers (that's righ...20) came in cars and one of those assault vehicles. AR's abounded! But they got their man, along with his $10 laminate machine and about 3 phony IDs. I was privy to the reports afterwards. There was never any mention about the possibility of weapons or armed resistance. I cannot to this day figure out why the police pulled off a military style operation. But I'll tell you, my local police never stop bitching about the lack of funds!
My uncle was a career policeman. I guess he was the Department SWAT guy too....just him and his Remy 700 in 30-06. The moral of my long-winded rant is this: SWAT guys want AR's because that's what the military uses. It's the cool thing.....plain and simple...........
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
I've melted.......I've gone looney I tell you! LOL...........
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
My 5.56 penetrated 10 layer of sheet rock....
My 5.56 penetrated 10 layer of sheet rock....
My 5.56 penetrated 10 layer of sheet rock....
I saw it....with my eyes. I happened....here, on Earth.
My 5.56 penetrated 10 layer of sheet rock....
My 5.56 penetrated 10 layer of sheet rock....
I saw it....with my eyes. I happened....here, on Earth.
allaroundhunter
Member
Well, in hindsight you can say almost anytime an officer draws his weapon he overreacted because he didn't have to shoot someone. But if one does get into a shootout and gets killed, everyone asks where the SWAT team was....
It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. A local officer was killed earlier this year while he was serving an eviction notice. Yes, an eviction notice. Afterwards, the next responding officer was met with a barrage of rifle fire. If he was not issued an AR then he would have been immensely outgunned.
Police departments are meeting force with equal force. Preparing for the worst. Asking them to do any less is foolish.
Personally, I would prefer to send in 20 officers to execute an arrest if it meant the chances that 100% of the officers would make it back to their families was higher than sending in 1 officer and risk his life to a greater degree -- Regardless of the weapons that they are issued.
What ammunition did you use?
allaroundhunter
Member
55-77 grains....350-450 grains...same thing, right?
Yea, um, of course
There is another website that was posted that shows 5.56 going through about 12 layers of sheet rock. From that site that was posted almost everything will over penetrate if you figure sheet rock exclusively. With a real world scenario there is always the off chance of hitting a stud which may help. Granted I have seen plinking ranges with steel targets decimated by 5.56.
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
You know, I can't recall the 5.56 ammo type.
And no, there's no need to send in 1) a chopper with 3 fully armed battle dressed soldiers rapelling from it with HK's, 2) an armored vehicle with a freaking cannon sticking out of it, and 3) 20 heavily armed para-military officers to arrest an older guy with no criminal record, who was making phony IDs, and who visited the local quickie market every morning for a breakfast burrito. Basic surveillance revealed that last fact to the police BEFORE they executed Operation Market Garden on the guy's trailer. A simple squad car, with two officers, with 9mm side-arms, and an arrest warrant would have more than sufficed. They weren't out-gunned and they certainly weren't "meeting force with equal force". And stop with the "give the police what they want" gibberish.....They're not the military.
And no, there's no need to send in 1) a chopper with 3 fully armed battle dressed soldiers rapelling from it with HK's, 2) an armored vehicle with a freaking cannon sticking out of it, and 3) 20 heavily armed para-military officers to arrest an older guy with no criminal record, who was making phony IDs, and who visited the local quickie market every morning for a breakfast burrito. Basic surveillance revealed that last fact to the police BEFORE they executed Operation Market Garden on the guy's trailer. A simple squad car, with two officers, with 9mm side-arms, and an arrest warrant would have more than sufficed. They weren't out-gunned and they certainly weren't "meeting force with equal force". And stop with the "give the police what they want" gibberish.....They're not the military.
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
"55-77 grains....350-450 grains...same thing, right"
Sarcasm guys.....
What about a Howitzer? Should I get a Howiter for those late-night intruders? Maybe if I use HP Howitzer rounds it won't penetrate the sheet rock.....?
Sarcasm guys.....
What about a Howitzer? Should I get a Howiter for those late-night intruders? Maybe if I use HP Howitzer rounds it won't penetrate the sheet rock.....?
allaroundhunter
Member
Again, what type of steel and what type of 5.56 round.
At 150 yards, M855 "Penetrator" ammo has a hard time penetrating 3/8" AR500 steel, and oftentimes can't penetrate.
If you use a weaker steel, then yes, it will go through just fine, but so will pistol rounds.
Archangel14
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2012
- Messages
- 596
I think an AR is a great SD rifle for that outside work. I personally want a big bore lever action. I'll probably be out-gunned when the enemy charges down my street, but what the hay, I say.
I mapped out my house not long ago and realized that to discharge ANY firearm in my home would present a hazard to my loved ones should I miss an intruder. I've decided that if I have to draw down on someone, I won't shoot unless they move into me or present a weapon. We talk a lot about the defensive use of a firearm, but it's very, very serious business my good friends.
Good night all!
I mapped out my house not long ago and realized that to discharge ANY firearm in my home would present a hazard to my loved ones should I miss an intruder. I've decided that if I have to draw down on someone, I won't shoot unless they move into me or present a weapon. We talk a lot about the defensive use of a firearm, but it's very, very serious business my good friends.
Good night all!
allaroundhunter
Member
Agreed on all accounts. I have figured out which firing lanes offer me no chance of endangering loved ones, and will position myself so that I can fire (and receive fire) down these lanes if necessary.
Whatever tool you choose to do the job, be thorough in your planning, be confident in your choice, and be good with your aim.
Goodnight and God bless.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Some people, who shall remain unnamed Archangel14, apparently plan to miss a lot more then I do.
If you plant a 55 grain BT 223 in a BG inside your house, there won't be enough bullet left to penetrate a sheet rock wall when it comes out the back side of the BG.
Unlike a pistol bullet or shotgun pellet patterns that slightly miss, a .223 expanding bullet comes completely apart inside a fluid filled biomass.
Well, I trained U.S. Army troops with the M-16 in 1968-69.
And I owned my first AR-15 in 1971, and a Mini-14 the year after that.
And I have shot more game animals with a .223 since then then I care to think about any more.
How long have you been shooting them?
And what have you shot besides 10 stacked sheets of sheet rock?
rc
If you plant a 55 grain BT 223 in a BG inside your house, there won't be enough bullet left to penetrate a sheet rock wall when it comes out the back side of the BG.
Unlike a pistol bullet or shotgun pellet patterns that slightly miss, a .223 expanding bullet comes completely apart inside a fluid filled biomass.
As for my book reading about it?
Well, I trained U.S. Army troops with the M-16 in 1968-69.
And I owned my first AR-15 in 1971, and a Mini-14 the year after that.
And I have shot more game animals with a .223 since then then I care to think about any more.
How long have you been shooting them?
And what have you shot besides 10 stacked sheets of sheet rock?
rc
Last edited:
Have you shot sheet rock with your big bore lever action round of choice?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Folks seem to need more sleep and less backing and forthing. "Yes I did" vs. "No you didn't" doesn't seem very useful. 
- Status
