Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

.357/.38 different POI???

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by BoneDigger, Apr 24, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BoneDigger

    BoneDigger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Tyler, TX
    I took the 686 to the range today and tried some .357 and some .38. Both were WWB, but the .357 was JHP, and the .38 was solid points.

    I noticed that the gun, wich has a 2.5 inch barrel, shot much better with the .357 than the .38. Any reasons why this would be the case?

    Todd
     
  2. jbauch357

    jbauch357 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    7th layer of hell (Seattle), Washington
    It may all be in my head, but I notice considerably better accuracy with .357 mag rounds compared to the .38 special rounds when shot out of my 4" GP100.

    Also even given the substantially lower recoil (i.e. easier shooting) of the .38 special rounds compared to .357 mag I don't see any difference in grouping when shot out of my 2 1/4" SP101.
     
  3. raghorn

    raghorn Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2005
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Idaho
    Higher velocity rounds will tend to hit lower than slower ones. The bullet leaves the barrel quicker, so is less affected by recoil.
     
  4. harbinger_j

    harbinger_j Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I always thought it was because I tried harder with the .357s
    I go through .38s like nothing, but if I am going to shoot a .357 I make it count.

    I am also shooting a GP100 4"
     
  5. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,635
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Sounds backwards to me, my Python, Tarus 88, TC, and GP100 ali shoot way more accurate to about 50 yards with .38spl SWC match rounds than with .357 mag anything. In .357 they are accruate, but not as accurate as with the .38spl swc's. Shoot, the Python (6in) makes a raggad hole at 25 yards off the rest! So does the (6in) GP100! The TC is super accurate with both, and is scoped so it is like cheating.
     
  6. tasco 74

    tasco 74 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    855
    Location:
    iowa u.s.a.
    yep my n frame smith shoots .38 spl wcs more accuratly than .357 magnum swcs too..... i've heard it's because of more bearing surface on a full wc bullet.............
     
  7. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    Michigander lost in... The Yonders, Oklahoma
    Difference in POI also could be the result of different bullet weights being fired.

    You said they were both WWB brand, but you did not say what grain was listed on box.

    Were they all 110, 125, 158, or 180gr.? Usually I shoot 158gr everything. I have found though that many times the .38's (around here anyway) can only be had in 130gr. fmj, which is almost 30gr lighter than the .357's I normally practice with. That difference does produce a different POI for my Rugers.
     
  8. FXWG

    FXWG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Jax, FL
    Muzzle velocity of the .38 vs .357 should make a diference as well.
     
  9. tasco 74

    tasco 74 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    855
    Location:
    iowa u.s.a.
    i think fxwg is right.. muzzle velocity has more to do with it than weight of bullet...... as gravity is constant and equal of both weights of bullets.....ie if you were to drop a 125 gr bullet and a 180 gr bullet from a 50 story building at the same exact time they would travel the 500 ft and strike the ground at the same time.............
     
  10. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    Michigander lost in... The Yonders, Oklahoma
    ummmm ? :scrutiny: .... if they were falling in a vacuum maybe.
     
  11. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Central Texas
    nope...shouldn't make any difference. unless we're talking about something that is literally feather-weight, they should drop at exactly the same rate save only any potential difference in terminal velocity. terminal velocity is caused by drag and varies with surface area, not mass. since the two bullets weights have nearly the same surface area, this effect would be minimal if observable at all.

    gallileo proved this [and many other things] long ago and was put through the inquisition for suggesting such heresy. don't believe him? drop a golf ball and a bowling ball off your roof simultaneously. you will notice that they strike the ground simultaneously.
     
  12. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    Michigander lost in... The Yonders, Oklahoma
    Here's a good explanation and somewhat applicable.




    That last line is somewhat interesting when thinking about the POI, which is what the poster originally inquired about.
     
  13. tipoc

    tipoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,944
    A lighter bullet will tend to impact lower than a heavier bullet. Most fixed sight 38/.357 guns have sights which are regulated for a 158 grain bullet. A lighter load will have a lower POI. There are exceptions to this but those have more to do with the particulars of the individual gun and the load.

    tipoc
     
  14. TYY

    TYY Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    California
    You have to separate the issues of BULLET DROP and MUZZLE RISE. Of course a faster projectile will drop less, but a heavier one may recoil more causes more muzzle rise and hit higher (assuming range/drop is not an issue).
     
  15. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    I'm not sure I understand this thread -- the title talks about Point of Impact, but the text talks about accuracy.

    Do you mean different loads shot to a different POI? That's not at all uncommon. Or do you mean your .38 Specials shot into larger groups than your .357s?
     
  16. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,503
    Location:
    Deep in the valley
    When shooting my SAA revolvers I'm consistantly a bit low with the light "cowboy" .38 special loads, and much closer to POA when I put full power .357 Magnum
     
  17. BoneDigger

    BoneDigger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Tyler, TX
    Vern,
    Actually, you are correct, the title and thread are a little misleading. The .38 caliber rounds were less accurate than the .357, but there was ALSO a different POI. The grouping of the .357 from the same distance, was much better than the .38. Also, the .38 was hitting low and left (different POI) where the .357 was dead center.

    In fact, I shot the .38 ammo first and was about to adjust my sights, but then I tried the .357 and it was right on.

    Todd
     
  18. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    Chantges in POI are to be expected when going from one cartridge to another -- especially in a small revolver. You can even get significant POI changes from one load of the same cartridge to the next. In fact, I know people who have "zeroed" a fixed sight revolver by experimenting with different loads and finding one that shoots to POI.

    Most .357s will shoot .38 Specials with good accuracy, in my experience. Your problem may be the load or lot, rather than a generic problem with .38 Specials in general.
     
  19. Risasi

    Risasi Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    851
    Same here, pretty much every six gun I've ever owned has a different POI when shooting .357 vs .38spl. My favorite right now is a 3" SP-101. I usually shoot the 158gr in .357, 125gr in .38spl. At ten yards I believe .38 is about a 1.5" low, and a little less accurate. For carry I generally stick to .38 125gr Gold Dots. Fast to action, great followup shots.

    The only wheelguns I own any more are all snub nose for close in defensive work. All I concentrate on are quick vertical strings COM. If I can put two into the pelvis and one in the neck/head I'm happy.

    When shooting for points I prefer a slide action.
     
  20. tipoc

    tipoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,944
    Vern is right.

    Most all guns show some preference for one load (meaning a certain type bullet at a certain weight and velocity) over another or one brand of ammo over another. This is usually the result of the production tolerences built into the gun coupled with the shooters skills of course.

    Most .357s shoot .38 very well. But that doesn't mean that they shoot all .38 well. The gun and shooter will have their preferences. Being more accurate with one load than another. A big part of the challenge of handgunning is finding out which your gun prefers. This involves a good deal of shooting and keeping track.

    Most .38 caliber fixed sight wheel guns are set at the factory for POA-POI with a 158 gr. bullet for either 15 or 25 yards.

    That bullet weight and velocity effect POI is why they make adjustable sights. For fixed sights you experiment till you find the load that your gun likes best and stick with that one.

    tipoc
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page