357 Magnum vs 45 ACP

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Ghost Tracker, let me guess got a boron-carbide plated squirrel infestation going? Yeah had one of those a few weeks back, I hear a .50BMG with API or a 14.7 works wonders :D.
/asshattery

All silliness, aside, pick what you can shoot the best, but that being said, if someone is worth shooting once, he's worth shooting twice, and I think with a .45 most people will get that second shot in that much faster. A few percent less "one shot stop" rating is worthwhile if it means you can double-tap the guy in the same time it takes to recover from the recoil of a "magnum" cartridge.
 
I wouldn't feel underarmed with either, but if I was hunting, I'd prefer the .357, and if I was up against a BG, I'd prefer a 1911 in .45acp.

I can hit the gong at 100 yards all day long with the .357, but I can accurately double tap with a 1911 and I can't do that with a .357, so for me it's the .45acp in a 1911.
 
I'm not going to comment on the .357 Magnum vs .45 Auto because that already badly beaten horse has already died, but:
The reason I asked this question is because a guy I work with who is very knowledgeable when it comes to guns
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Who says he's very knowledgeable? Is it self professed? Just because someone can talk about guns all day long and sound like he knows what he's talking about doesn't make him right.

There are a lot of people in this world who will repeat what they hear because they think it's right and want to sound smart. They will hear something over and over and then regurgitate it so as not to be different. It happens a lot on forums and it happens a lot in real life. In both situations just because the same story is being told by many doesn't make the story true.

Of course you have no reason to believe what I say because it's only my opinion and by my own statements, just because I'm saying doesn't make it true. :p
 
357 Magnum vs 45 ACP

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Which is best for personal defense? Which one packs the hardest punch? Are they pretty much equal when it comes to stopping power?
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The best one for personal defense is the one you shoot best and have confidence in. As far as packing a punch, I'll take the .357 Magnum any day of the week. All decent quality handgun rounds are "pretty much equal" when it comes to stopping power. I put my trust and absolute faith in none of them.

BikerRN
 
If carring concealed I useally carry a SP101 357 When I carry open or cancealed in the winter I carry a Les Baer 1911 45ACP which one stop best. Don't know never been shoot with either and never shoot anybody with them.

Cours I guess if one of these day comes along and can ask the BG to come back in a few weeks I wnat to try a different gun and tell me if it hurt more if you can.
 
I carry a K frame or a 1911 OWB and have complete confidence in both. The 1911 does conceal better though. I tend to carry the K frame more in colder weather.
 
BBL length

If you look at the .45 with a 3" bbl, the reduction in velocity from a 5" to the 3" is significant. I once chronographed a .45ACP out of a 2" revolver. It was anemic. In the 600s. I shot it into a wood pile. Granted the wood was semi rotted, when I recovered the bullet it was unscratched. I chronied .357 full mag 125gr. out of a 2" and it was in the low 1200fps... Same wood pile, the bullet mushroomed.
I love the .45. But for hideouts and short bbls, give me the .357. If I open carried everywhere, I would tote the .45 in a 5"
 
Actually, Corbon makes a very good 160 grain DPX round for the short barrel, compact .45 ACP. It mushrooms very nice indeed and has good penetration:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 160 gr DPX.htm

I have and like both. I love my 3 inch barrel GP100 and my Taurus Mellennium Pro PT145 is a nice compact, DAO (2nd Generation) .45 ACP

Both are short barrels and both get the appropriate Corbon DPX all copper top. The 357 gets the 125 grain DPX + P.
 
have both, carry both, both work and I'm sure if I ever need one I won't wish it was the other, I'll wish it was an AR15.
 
I have a S&W 1911 I also have a S&W 686P 4" Bbl. with
Hogue COmpac gripss. when you hold them side by side
they're about the same O.A.L. and ther're both 39 oz unloaded.

MOst velocity/energy figures tossed around are the .357 Mag
with a 6" Bbl. The 1911, although it is said to have a 5" Bbl. that
includes the length of a .45 ACP's 0.898 case, so it's really 4" of
rifling.so the 1911 and the 686P 4" Bbl. are valid to compare adding
I have a strong side Milt sparks, FBI cant holster for each, the
#Axiom and the 686P - the Axiom isn't high ride so ther're about
equal for carry factors of weight, accessibility, and covering for
concealed carry.

1911 - 8 + 1 Wilson Combat ETM magazine.
SPare mag in a Milt SParks IWB single carrier
686P 7 shot cyl. HKS 587 SPeedloader
I have yet to get a belt carrier for the speedloader
but when/if I did it would certainly be more of a bulge
as well as being slower to get out and operate to reload.

My usual load for the 1911 Hornady XTP JHPs @ 1,000 FPS
686P 140 or 159 gr. Hornady XTP JHP at approx. 1350 and 1225
FPS respectively. but in order to get to the same recovery from the
heavier recoil, after shooting these loads I've gone to .38 SPecial +P
125 gr. Hornady XTP JHP @ 1,000 FPS Maybe other people can recover
with the full house .357 Mag loads I find it difficult. Maybe that's
just me.

So, where's that score card?

Carry Draw
Capacity Edge to 1911
spare/reload Edge 1911
Power vs Repeat shots - Edge 1911

I also have a S&W 625 5" Bbl. 45 oz empty
Carry: I'm convinced the only way to carry this
tank would be an ALessi Field Master shoulder rig
which holds the N-Frame vertical/muzzle down. Oh,
it also has full size Hogue grips which help control,
it's great for double taps Reloading it beats the 686P
with the full moon clips and the short case length easily
clearing teh thumb latch, where the long case with the 7 shot
cylinder has hanging empties all too often.

If I wanted to have a .45 ACP revolver for a like strong
side carry rig, I'd want a 4" Bbl. N-frame and go with the Hogue
N-frame round butt compact grips. I think it's del fatti that
makes a trick holder for the loaded full moon clips where you
roll your thumb on the snap and the loaded FUll moon falls into
your hand which beats the snot out of the usual HKS speedloader
belt carrier with it's unsnap and draw the speedloader out.

Go in the Rockies to the east and which would I take with a
once in a blue moon chance of a grizzly?

hmmm, getting .400 CorBon barrel from Jarvis Inc.
out of the 1911 "Kit" swap barrels in 1911, go to ammo
bin, grab .400 CorBon 155 gr. hornady XTP @ 1,350 FPS
load chamber and 8 round magazine(s).

Y'all use what works for you.

oh, bedside gun or for any S.O. or other unarmed
reasonably capable dude in camp - Model 60 .357 mag
3" Barrel loaded with .38 SPcl 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot
@ 950 fps Load Safariland Comp-I speedloader

I'm thinking the 686P oughta have the cylinder cut
for the 7 shot full moon clips to solve the HKS Speedloader
option.
 
The real question is which is better, Glock or a well-built 1911?
:evil:

{ducks and runs off}
 
If I'm going to a class at Gunsite (Thunder Ranch, where-ever), and someone has brought a .357 mag as their tool-of-choice, I (personally) would prefer them to be at the other end of the firing line than positioned next to me. My nerves & focus will remain more "collected" by the end of the day.
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Agree! :)
Also agree that I'd rather shoot 100 rounds of .45ACP JHP from one of my 1911s than 100 rounds of .357 Magnum 158gr JHP from one of my SP101s. Last time I did the latter, I had a good blister on my palm. No big deal, but it doesnt happen with shooting .45ACP.
Certainly the .357 has better penetration, but for most CCW use, I favor the .45ACP, since I have no expectation of needing to penetrate either car windshield glass or sheet metal, as a mere civilian CCW practitioner, and I tend to believe in the stopping effects of big heavy bullets.
 
1) I would postulate that "stopping power" is a myth created by ammunition companies and gun magazine writers.

2) Shot placement is what truly counts in a gunfight, regardless of diameter, weight or powder charge. I know guys who've won gunfights with .32's. Train, train, train!

Both the .45 and .357 are wonderful rounds with a proven track record in the field. When it comes to the Marshall/Sanow/Fackler stuff, bear in mind the authors don't mention accuracy. Does the .357 have a great one-shot-stop rate because of its ballistics, or because the guys carrying it were excellent shots?

That's a question I ponder when people dismiss the 9x19 as ineffective. It could be that the folks from the data pool carrying 9mm weren't as good as the guys carrying .45.

One of my carry guns is a Sig P220 in .45, the other a S&W 66 in .357. I'd stake my life on either. While I agree that shooting 100 rounds of full-house .357 can get tiring, I know the gun to be accurate and fast enough. (Also, bear in mind that the 66 can shoot .38's as well, thus doubling the amount of ammunition available for it.)

Neither round will knock a human being off their feet, nor will it send them flying across the room. Come to think of it, few small arms will.

So...at the end of the day, stick with what you shoot well.

(Says me, currently carrying a 9mm :))
 
Forget those two and get yourself a .88

HERETICS! Only the .88 Magnum will stop 'em cold!

Click here to listen to a personal defense expert describe the awesome stopping power of the .88 magnum.

The .88 hits so hard that even if the bullets nicks the perp on the arm the body will explode due to massive kinetic energy, and the head will pop off the body and shoot up into orbit like a rocket, leaving a vapor trail behind it - this is also due to simple physics and kinetic energy.

Evan Marshall wrote in his famous book regarding Stopping Power that the .88 is so high velocity and the projectile so mammoth, that a vacuum is created behind the bullet so that even a miss is deadly. The perp is sucked into the vacuum left in the bullets wake which is so powerful that it can tear a grown man in half. Massad Ayoob also wrote regarding the .88 that it was too much gun for him in his younger years, but has since "man'd up" and carries one when not on duty. The cartridge was originally designed by the late Elmer Keith after a night of heavy drinking, and was moved into production by S&W. Elmer never forgave Colt for not making a Single Action Army in .88 and he went to his grave bitter.

In conclusion - the mighty .88 rules, making all other rounds obsolete.
 
Quote:
Some of you might remember that, back in the 80's, Evan Marshall did a study of actual shootings and found that the .357 mag 125gr SJHPs managed 96% one-shot stops, compared to about 65% for .45 ACP 230gr JHPs
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Actually, that is incorrect. The 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok was rated by Marshall and Sanow to be 94% effective.

I refer you to this chart: http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
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Here's proof to back what i'm saying here:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/sanow-strikes-out.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/marshall-sanow-discrepancies.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm

NO handgun cartridge produces anywhere near 90% one-shot stopping power - that's complete rubbish that has been debunked.

.357 Magnum vs .45 ACP= welcome to 1979
autoloader vs revolver
 
Is this just the "Is a revolver any good for combat" thread put forwards a different way?
I opt for the .357 Magnum, due to comfort with the platform (K-frame). Shoot it better than the 1911.
 
Bill_G said:
...shoot a full house 357 at night at your pistol range (lights off) without ear muffs, and I guarantee you won't ever do it again!
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I've shot both calibers indoors, in subdued light, and without any hearing protection, just to see what it would be like. There was a little ringing in the ears after both shots, but I tried working myself up into a state where I'd hope to have a lot of adrenalin pumping into my system. Probably wouldn't do it again, but it wasn't as bad as I'd thought.

Although I have both, I lean towards the .357. According to Jim Taylor's Levergun Website, which bolsters what I'd heard before: "The .357 did duty in the Korean War and proved very effective at penetrating the body armor worn by Chinese communists. It was also carried during the Vietnam conflict and was used effectively. I have a good friend who is alive today because of his use of a .357 (the gun was given to him by Elmer Keith) on a VC who had homemade armor. The VC shot several men in the compound and was not stopped until my friend got his .357 going. They found later the Viet Cong had metal plates tied in front and on his back. The .45 ACP did not penetrate, but the .357 made holes in and out! It's use as a Police weapon began to be curtailed in the 1960's. It had proven very effective against criminals.... so much so that the protests said it was too effective! Litigation and political pressure caused many Police agencies to look for a weapon that had a 'nicer' public image and little by little the .357 was phased out."
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm
 
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I put this one in the 6 of one, half dozen the other catagory. I carry a 45, the good wife carries a snubby 357. I don't think either of us worry too much about it.
 
I read it in print , can't tell you where or when, but on cases of law enforcment shootings the study I'm quoting said the .357 mag.125 gr JHP beat all others in the study on man stopping, or stopping the gun fight.
 
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