357 Magnum vs 45 ACP
- Thread starter rugerman07
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Cromlech
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Very nice, Molasses!
Very nice, Molasses!
coyotehitman
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One of the gun rags had an article comparing the two about 12 years ago. If I recall, the conclusion was that both were adequate and nobody wants to be hit by either.
easyrider604
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so what if this topic has been beaten to death?
.357 magnum vs. .45 acp? 96% vs. 94 % one-shot stops, respectively.
Same difference. Regardless of caliber, you have to hit the A-zone for best chance of "one-shot stop". Practice with your choice of gun/cartridge.
A good revolver will group as well as a good automatic, a good .357 load is just as effective as a good .45 acp load.
The major variables are the shooter's skill, tactics and gunfighting mindset.
.357 magnum vs. .45 acp? 96% vs. 94 % one-shot stops, respectively.
Same difference. Regardless of caliber, you have to hit the A-zone for best chance of "one-shot stop". Practice with your choice of gun/cartridge.
A good revolver will group as well as a good automatic, a good .357 load is just as effective as a good .45 acp load.
The major variables are the shooter's skill, tactics and gunfighting mindset.
DougDubya
Member
Molasses has just been entered in my cool book. Coonan for the win.
Rampant_Colt
Member
You don't actually believe that do you??[email protected]: said:
It's been debunked as complete rubbish...
Indoors, a .357 will permanently damage your hearing, limit you to 6 rounds capacity [seven in some cases], produce a bright flash, and lots of recoil. That's why i choose a 1911 .45 with 230gr loads
Hi,
I own several examples of both calibers and frankly, any of 'em will work about the same if I do my job and put the bullet where it is supposed to go.
Heck, for deep concealment I use a "lowly" .38 snubbie . . . and don't feel under gunned at all with it either.
Still, due to the ease and type of recoil characteristics between the .357 and the .45ACP, the .45 wins hands down in , comfort during recoil and, most important, speed between shots. As others have mentioned, the flash of the .357 can be blinding at night . . . not a good thing during a mortal gun fight.
So . . . my druthers . . . the .45ACP, in either bottom feeder or wheel gun!
T.
I own several examples of both calibers and frankly, any of 'em will work about the same if I do my job and put the bullet where it is supposed to go.
Heck, for deep concealment I use a "lowly" .38 snubbie . . . and don't feel under gunned at all with it either.
Still, due to the ease and type of recoil characteristics between the .357 and the .45ACP, the .45 wins hands down in , comfort during recoil and, most important, speed between shots. As others have mentioned, the flash of the .357 can be blinding at night . . . not a good thing during a mortal gun fight.
So . . . my druthers . . . the .45ACP, in either bottom feeder or wheel gun!
T.
DougDubya
Member
Complete rubbish?
Sato Ord
Member
I'm only going to wade in long enough to give my personal opinion. It's just that, my opinion. It has no basis in fact other than personal experience. I've had, unfortunately, occasion to shoot a couple of men with a .45acp. Never had the same experience with a .357 mag (thankfully). The .45 did its job admirably, the only hard evidence I have of that is that I'm the one who is still alive.
My personal preference between the two pistols in a gun fight is simple, the .45acp. Plenty of knock-down, bullet tends to stay in the bg and not keep going into your neighbor's house. Less muzzle flash and noise, good thing at night when the lights are out.
Now, load the 357 with light loads and things start to even up.
The answer is, when your life depends on it, use what you can use effectively, and the hell with anyone who tells you that you don't know your butt from butter milk. It's your butt that's on the line (not someone else's), make sure it stays in one piece.
My personal preference between the two pistols in a gun fight is simple, the .45acp. Plenty of knock-down, bullet tends to stay in the bg and not keep going into your neighbor's house. Less muzzle flash and noise, good thing at night when the lights are out.
Now, load the 357 with light loads and things start to even up.
The answer is, when your life depends on it, use what you can use effectively, and the hell with anyone who tells you that you don't know your butt from butter milk. It's your butt that's on the line (not someone else's), make sure it stays in one piece.
Sato Ord
Member
What?
I didn't quite catch that?!DawgFvr
Member
The decibel level of a .45 ACP going off in an enclosed environment is far less than a high pressure round like the .357 mag. I, personally, would much prefer using a .45 ACP indoors as to the .357 mag, however, if my life was on the line...hearing loss is not really on the radar screen now is it?
Mr. Designer
Member
Both will work. I like the .357 for the fact that I can also shoot .38s if I want.
Rampant_Colt
Member
@ DougDubya - yeah, COMPLETE rubbish:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm
scroll down towards th bottom and view the links and last paragraph
No handgun gets anywhere near 90% "one shot stops"
The .357 Magnum 96% OSS was invented by Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow to sell some books. Read the link if you don't believe me. Complete BS
A .45 ACP doesn't have a barrel gap and is low pressure compared to the .357..
@ you guys suggesting the .357 isn't louder than he .45, have you ever even fired one?? Doesn't sound like it to me. The .357 makes a large night time fireball and is ear-splittingly LOUD
There's no contest here which one is better
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm
scroll down towards th bottom and view the links and last paragraph
No handgun gets anywhere near 90% "one shot stops"
The .357 Magnum 96% OSS was invented by Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow to sell some books. Read the link if you don't believe me. Complete BS
A .45 ACP doesn't have a barrel gap and is low pressure compared to the .357..
@ you guys suggesting the .357 isn't louder than he .45, have you ever even fired one?? Doesn't sound like it to me. The .357 makes a large night time fireball and is ear-splittingly LOUD
There's no contest here which one is better
Big slow moving bullet, versus faster smaller bullet. It is an age old debate.
I agree that the .45 and .357 have very little difference when hitting an un-armored target. Shooting through walls, cars, armor the edge goes to the .357. Shooting at night, double taps, faster reloads the edge goes to the .45.
So, which do you need? At the house I have a .357 mag loaded and at the ready. I use a revolver because FTF (failure to feed) isn't a problem that revolvers usually have. They don't jam and you always know when they are loaded and can secure them quickly. Also, there is a lot of cover in a house... If the bad guy were to jump behind the sofa, the .357 will give him no refuge. Same with a door jam.
I also have electronic ear muffs, they transmit the sounds, they cut off when I fire. I think the sound + fireball inside a house would cause the perp to faint.
Rampant Colt, there are a lot of "studies" out there. The .357 has been used by cops for years and is a good man stopper and a reliable round. The .45 ACP is an analogue of the .45 colt. Both of these rounds have been tested extensively under battlefield conditions and are reliable man stoppers. The "history" edge goes to the .45, but it also is very complimentary of the .357.
I agree that the .45 and .357 have very little difference when hitting an un-armored target. Shooting through walls, cars, armor the edge goes to the .357. Shooting at night, double taps, faster reloads the edge goes to the .45.
So, which do you need? At the house I have a .357 mag loaded and at the ready. I use a revolver because FTF (failure to feed) isn't a problem that revolvers usually have. They don't jam and you always know when they are loaded and can secure them quickly. Also, there is a lot of cover in a house... If the bad guy were to jump behind the sofa, the .357 will give him no refuge. Same with a door jam.
I also have electronic ear muffs, they transmit the sounds, they cut off when I fire. I think the sound + fireball inside a house would cause the perp to faint.
Rampant Colt, there are a lot of "studies" out there. The .357 has been used by cops for years and is a good man stopper and a reliable round. The .45 ACP is an analogue of the .45 colt. Both of these rounds have been tested extensively under battlefield conditions and are reliable man stoppers. The "history" edge goes to the .45, but it also is very complimentary of the .357.
texagun
Member
"Shot placement is primary, adequate penetration is secondary. Anything else is just angels dancing on the head of a pin."
DougDubya
Member
Rampant Colt - your study is just about shooting tastless dessert confection.
When there are autopsies on record of a human heart being shattered into two pieces by a .357 Magnum, I'm generally going to say that the .357 is pretty effective.
Also, kindly note, if Marshall were trying to make one-shot stops with handguns an actual strategy, he wouldn't be carrying three handguns on his person most of the time. Considering he packs a Beretta Storm, a Glock 26 and a pocket .357 revolver, he's got 32 shots before he has to reload.
That doesn't sound like someone who endorses one shot stops as a tactic.
When there are autopsies on record of a human heart being shattered into two pieces by a .357 Magnum, I'm generally going to say that the .357 is pretty effective.
Also, kindly note, if Marshall were trying to make one-shot stops with handguns an actual strategy, he wouldn't be carrying three handguns on his person most of the time. Considering he packs a Beretta Storm, a Glock 26 and a pocket .357 revolver, he's got 32 shots before he has to reload.
That doesn't sound like someone who endorses one shot stops as a tactic.
texagun
Member
I've read that he carries 3 guns on his person daily. Isn't that being a bit paranoid?? He's not in active law enforcement....he is retired.
DougDubya
Member
Marshall worked Detroit homicide and Detroit SWAT for over a quarter of a century and he hasn't retired from training feds, cops and soldiers. If you saw that many corpses and made that many arrests, it wouldn't be paranoia per se, it would be a case of real life experience and enemies made.
MrPeter
Member
Pros and cons in my book. You can judge for yourself:
.357 Magnum PROS
.357 Magnum CONS
.45 Auto PROS:
.45 Auto CONS:
This list changes if you include the 357 SIG round, of course.
For me, the chance that there may be some overpenetration with the .357 round is an automatic trump. I'm sure I couldn't live with myself if a self-defense shooting took the life of an innocent with my bullet, regardless of the legal implications.
That said, if you can't shoot a round accurately enough to hit your target, you're even worse off than if you overpenetrated. If you want to go with .357 mag, go ahead, but make sure you can hit your target consistently, and choose a responsible JHP load.
That said, my ideal carry rig is an XD.45 loaded with 13+1 Golden Sabres, and my second favorite is my CZ 75 in .40 with 12+1 of Golden Sabres. However, the XD is too large to be easily concealed at work, and the CZ-75 is too heavy, and pulls my pants right off of me as I walk. So, I usually carry a .38 special +P S&W snubbie with a hollowpoint load which can and will expand in a target, giving me as much comfort as possible. Sometimes we have to go with what is less than ideal because we live in the real world.
Hope that helps.
.357 Magnum PROS
- Proven effective self defense round
- Flat Trajectory
- More power/energy (not the same as stopping power)
- Arguably more reliable since forced to choose revolver as opposed to autoloader
.357 Magnum CONS
- Usually lower mag capacity (revolvers)
- Usually limited to revolvers (revolvers aren't bad, but the limitation of only being able to choose them is a CON)
- - Due to revolvers only (mostly), slower reload for most people
- - Due to revolvers only (mostly), limited to DA for quick followup shots (CON for some not for others)
- Depending on load may have greater chance of overpenetration
- Smaller permanent cavity in target
- Blinding in dark, and deafening, esp indoors
- Depending on the gun, from hard to obscene recoil (more difficult for follow up shots)
.45 Auto PROS:
- Proven effective self-defense round
- Softer recoil (again, depending on gun)
- - as a result: quicker, and more accurate follow up shots
- Usually higher magazine capacity
- Larger permanent cavity in target
- Lower chance of overpenetration (again depending on load)
- Choice of both autoloading and revolver platforms
- - Resulting in further options to make the gun more comfortable for you; (choice of SA/DA, DA/SA, DAO, SAO, etc., manual saftey, passive saftey, etc.)
- Not quite as blinding or deafening, but certainly no whipser.
.45 Auto CONS:
- Arguably less reliable if chosen platform is autoloading
- Heavy arc in trajectory for longer ranges (barely applicable in SD situation)
This list changes if you include the 357 SIG round, of course.
For me, the chance that there may be some overpenetration with the .357 round is an automatic trump. I'm sure I couldn't live with myself if a self-defense shooting took the life of an innocent with my bullet, regardless of the legal implications.
That said, if you can't shoot a round accurately enough to hit your target, you're even worse off than if you overpenetrated. If you want to go with .357 mag, go ahead, but make sure you can hit your target consistently, and choose a responsible JHP load.
That said, my ideal carry rig is an XD.45 loaded with 13+1 Golden Sabres, and my second favorite is my CZ 75 in .40 with 12+1 of Golden Sabres. However, the XD is too large to be easily concealed at work, and the CZ-75 is too heavy, and pulls my pants right off of me as I walk. So, I usually carry a .38 special +P S&W snubbie with a hollowpoint load which can and will expand in a target, giving me as much comfort as possible. Sometimes we have to go with what is less than ideal because we live in the real world.
Hope that helps.
Rampant_Colt
Member
I am not doubting the effectiveness of the .357, i'm pointing out the fact that people actually believe that handguns produce 90% 'stopping power' which is complete BS. That type of thinking may get a good guy killed!
The link i posted above is more than just gelatin results. Evidently you [Doug Dubya] didn't bother to read past the first paragraph.
M&S have been discredited by credible ballisticians for their blatant and outright lies in these three books.
Evan Marshall carrying multiple guns doesn't change my mind about their 'studies'
And i agree for the most part with MrPeter above
The link i posted above is more than just gelatin results. Evidently you [Doug Dubya] didn't bother to read past the first paragraph.
M&S have been discredited by credible ballisticians for their blatant and outright lies in these three books.
Evan Marshall carrying multiple guns doesn't change my mind about their 'studies'
And i agree for the most part with MrPeter above
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Marshall Not Disproven By Anyone
RAMPANT COLT,
I started a thread earlier on this subject. NO ONE, NOT A SINGE PERSON COULD SHOW ANYTHING TO DISPROVE THE STATISICS FROM MARSHALL!
Martin FACKLER and the FACKLERITES has run a name calling contest and nothing else. No evidence was presented.
If you can show otherwise, please do. Nothing in firearmstactical that I read was even close.
Jim
RAMPANT COLT,
I started a thread earlier on this subject. NO ONE, NOT A SINGE PERSON COULD SHOW ANYTHING TO DISPROVE THE STATISICS FROM MARSHALL!
Martin FACKLER and the FACKLERITES has run a name calling contest and nothing else. No evidence was presented.
If you can show otherwise, please do. Nothing in firearmstactical that I read was even close.
Jim
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