New entry to the caliber conflict that has played out so often

[2wheels]

If I had a dollar for every time someone was insanely impressed by the fact that the Judge/Governor fired a "shotgun shell out of a handgun!!! So it must be devastating! And you don't really need to aim!".

I might have the money to buy one, and take them to the range to prove to them they'd rather carry a 9mm!

 

[mdauben]

Yeah I don't think .410 buckshot from a handgun is going to cause more structural damage than any decent 9mm or .45 JHP.

Add in the cumbersome weapons, exceedingly poor range, low capacity, and poor penetration, and I think the conventional service calibers win out in just about every way against a .410 handgun.

What he said.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

A .410 slug from a revolver is still going through a .45-caliber barrel. It would be wildly inaccurate beyond your nose.

 

[fastest45ever]

What about the double projectile loads from Double Tap?

They effectively double the capacity of the gun. This is a big deal for 5 shot guns, people that live in states with magazine limitations as well.

 

[silicosys4]

Please explain to me how you turn a 5 shot revolver into a 10 shot revolver with "double tap double projectile loads"? I know they have a load with three "discs" in them and some BB shot....instead of just three buckshot. Seems even more likely to go somewhere you don't want though.

 

[Skribs]

What about the double projectile loads from Double Tap?

They effectively double the capacity of the gun. This is a big deal for 5 shot guns, people that live in states with magazine limitations as well.

They essentially turn a standard cartridge into a shotgun by providing multiple projectiles. The 5-shot Governer/Judge (or 7-shot Raging Judge) are going to be 15/20/25 (or 21/28/35) shot weapons with buckshot loads. Similarly, an XDm 9 could become a 40 shot with double-tap.

 

[NG VI]

Oh, so the Double Tap loads allow you to fire each cartridge two separate times?

 

[allaroundhunter]

That does not double the capacity. It makes for more inaccurate projectiles leaving the barrel.

To double the capacity you need one heck of a magazine extension, or use a full size magazine in a compact gun.

 

[Skribs]

I didn't say it was a good idea, I was just saying that you get double the projectiles by using double tap.

...or use a full size magazine in a compact gun.

I beg to differ. G26, 10+1. G17, 17+1. So you're either going from 10 to 17, or 11 to 18. Still not quite double the capacity.

Like I said, I can see a place for the Judge. I think it would serve good as a dedicated nightstand gun, assuming you have a fairly small home and you don't have any innocents in the path of the weapon. A long gun would be better, but if you do what I do - lock the handgun in a small safe near the bed, and the long gun in the closet - it would be a good option to grab.

Do I think it's better than the 9 or the .45 at that particular application? Honestly, I'm not sure. The 9 or .45 would allow you to get off more shots rapid-fire, which means if you miss completely, you have another chance sooner. They'll also kick less, be more "family friendly" (both in terms of limiting the potential for friendly fire, and in being easier for your wife/kid to use), but I think that the .410 essentially offers half the wound channel potential of a 12-gauge using 2.75" shells, albeit with slightly less penetration.

However, I will also agree that the standard cartridge is better for more accurate shooting, and because I would prefer to limit my active calibers, I would much rather have a 9 as my desk gun. That's not to say I would deem anyone to be irresponsible or wrong for choosing a .410 revolver as their nightstand gun.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I beg to differ. G26, 10+1. G17, 17+1. So you're either going from 10 to 17, or 11 to 18. Still not quite double the capacity.

Okay, let me clarify, a full size magazine with a normal sized magazine extension. It seems weird that you are nit-picking that after saying that the double-tap loads give double the capacity...

 

[Skribs]

Okay, let me clarify, a full size magazine with a normal sized magazine extension. It seems weird that you are nit-picking that after saying that the double-tap loads give double the capacity...

You specified an extended magazine or a full-size magazine. I'd consider a full-size magazine with an extension to be an extended magazine.

And I changed my answer from "double capacity" to "double projectiles" after feedback.

Yes, I am nitpicking. It's what I do. It annoys most people, but I'm okay with that.

 

[NG VI]

More like a third the payload of a normal 2.75" 12 gauge.

Even though shotguns deliver surprisingly close to a full proportion of their velocity potential from a short barreled gun, three inches is short enough to handicap small round balls of lead. They just don't have enough mass to get very deep with the low velocities a .410 handgun will deliver.

And .45 Colt loads won't shoot that well with that shallow rifling.

The guns are doubly handicapped, before you even start to measure them up against their defense gun competition in areas like weight, bulk, and holster offerings.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Heck, I mainly use slugs out of my 12 gauge but that's just me.

When you're done messin' around with the little stuff, get yourself a 10 gauge

(Seriously, though........a single Federal 3-1/2", 1-3/4 ounce (766 gr.) slug from my Browning BPS split a 16" long chunk of 10" x 14.5" timber in half. My shoulder was also a bit sore after 20 rounds.....)

 

[MCgunner]

Me, I'll take 11 9mm +P in my pocket to my .410 Contender's one shot at home. There's the XDS now, 6 shots of .45 vs 11 of 9, I'll keep my 9, thanks.

When you're done messin' around with the little stuff, get yourself a 10 gauge

I have, great goose gun, but then, it don't need to be concealed for goose hunting.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^Mach
lol. I'm good, man! No thanks.

 

[Inebriated]

Where are you guys finding these 10 gauge slugs? If I could ever find 'em, I'd pick up a 10 gauge specifically for slug fun.

 

[Kiln]

The recoil and muzzle flash is very misleading. People believe that it is insanely powerful because of this.

I do however think that when it comes to snakes or small varmints, a .410 derringer loaded with birdshot will probably be one of the most effective weapons for this use inside 5-7 feet. My single shot Leinad derringer would cover a plastic plate in holes at that distance.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I will add, that for snakes.... There is no better pistol than the judge. Every snake that we have shot with it has almost completely lost its head with a single shot.

Sent from my HTC One X

 

[Lawdawg45]

@ 45 Auto

It's only poorly balanced if you are a poor shot

I would honestly like to see your YouTube video reshot using rapid double action as with a defensive shooting. This would be interesting to see the shot pattern then.

LD

 

[KenW.]

I like my Bond Arms .410 derringer. I accept that it is a niche weapon, good for what it is.

I find the slugs just as accurate as the 45 Colt I've sent through it... and more pleasant to shoot. I understand the 1/5 oz. slug is roughly equivelant to a .38 special at close (very close) range.

 

[Pfletch83]

@ Lawdawg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlYXNhJXmXo&feature=plcp

 

[Skribs]

Even though shotguns deliver surprisingly close to a full proportion of their velocity potential from a short barreled gun, three inches is short enough to handicap small round balls of lead. They just don't have enough mass to get very deep with the low velocities a .410 handgun will deliver.

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere, I believe it was Box o Truth where they revisited the judge (I'll look for it later) that the 000 pellets out of the Judge met the minimum amount of penetration.

It depends on which loads you use as to how much lead there is. If you use the 2.5" shells, you're getting 3 or 4 pellets (4 if using the Federal premium shells). 4 000 pellets is 2/3 oz, 9 00 pellets is 1 1/8 oz, so even 4 is more lead. 5 000 pellets in the 3" shells (which certain Judge models can handle) is significantly more than half the lead.

Even 3 000 pellets is half an ounce, far more than a third of 1-1/8 oz.

 

[Skribs]

Okay, BOT #41 is Taurus Judge, BOT #53 is Judge Revisited.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

1. The 3 inch .410 shells did slightly better than the 2 ½ inch shells did. But most of them still failed to make the 12 inch minimum penetration standard. However, a few loads made the minimum penetration standard.

2. Some of the pellets deviated sharply from their path and left the water jugs.

3. The longer barrel of the 28 inch shotgun made quite a difference in penetration. It seems that the short 3 inch barrel of the Judge is its main limitation.

4. Even at 7 yards, the pattern of the Judge is too wide, and will cause some of the load to miss a bad guy. Not only are you responsible for every pellet you send down range, but if they miss him, they do not Stop him.

5. The sun was shining, it was a blue bird day, and it was better than any day I ever spent at work.

6. It’s fun to shoot stuff.

So yes, the 00- and 000-pellets out of some of those loads can make 12-15".

 

[Pfletch83]

@NG VI

Listed weight is: 29.6 oz

Overall length is: 8.5 inches

Overall Height is: 5.5 inches

Width is: 1.75 inches

Fully loaded a standard S&W Governor weighs in about the same as an empty 686 Plus with a 2.5 inch barrel

and gives up maybe an inch in overall length.

So really the weight aspect doesn't have much to do with it,sure it might be a bit longer but that's all.

Going to the N-Frame class (4 inch barreled 629) You can see that weight and length are far more than the Gov.

But I have carried K and L frame revolvers as well as a few semi-auto's in my day.

Also how many instances have there been of people being shot at from across the street in a defensive action vs all other cases where such encounters have been up close and personal (Pretty much at bad breath range)?

Also shots from a standard sidearm have been known to miss the target completely no matter how well aimed,and how much farther will a missed single projectile go vs a round piece of buckshot?

 

[Pfletch83]

@ 2 Wheels

I have never, nor have I heard folks say that a person using a Judge/Gov. doesn't need to aim.

What I have said on the matter is that it gives the user more of a potential for a stop vs a single projectile.

I will agree with some of the posters on here that have said these revolvers are niche guns...they are indeed niche guns,the niche being that they make for a better fight stopper than a single projectile dependant weapon.

They still require the user to aim however.