spyderdude
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The 9mm is also available worldwide, and is accepted by our military, and special forces across the globe, so it must have something good going for it.
.40sw ???
- Thread starter Handyman
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Lonestar49
Member
For what's worth
...
My BIL, LA Swat, 22yrs, Sgt now, 1 year to go, to retirement said that, in SWAT, they used nothing but 45cals.. period.
When he left SWAT for the rank increase of pay for retirement purposes, he was back on the street, and that LA's Police Policy was that all street cops had to use Glock (for their continued firing, after torture testing, including dropping the same Glock from an 8 story building, loaded, chambered, and no misfires, no damage other than a chip of the front sight and barrel, and scratches, but kept on firing without fail.
But the MAIN reason they went 9mm, was for damage control, in that, a 45 can go thru things, beyond its target, and do damage to other "things".. Where as, the 9mm JHP's did not go thru things and beyond, and therefore, was and is, the standard issue for the street cops.
Bottom line: one Caliber, the 45 is more forgiving IMO, than either the 40cal's or 9mm's more unforgiving, in a near perfect hit, vs the same shot-placement of a larger 45 caliber.
Puppet show:
The 45cal goes < boom------> O
The 40cal goes boom^ ------> 0
The 9mm goes bang^ -------> o
End of Puppet show..
Once he made Sgt., some 3yrs ago, he was, and is, allowed to carry his trusty, best handgun friend, a 1911, Government Issue, 45cal.
Some things make sense to others, but worrying about a street cops self protection, and his missed shots, or shots that go thru, or beyond, at the expense of knockdown power, vs the 9mm that, IMO, needs a better place- shotment, overall, to do the job, as compared to a more forgiving 45cal, with more punch on impact, and bigger holes, for the safety of the 9mm's less carrying power, flys in the face of logic, IMO, when it comes to street cops vs the concrete jungle of mis-fits that roam the streets and cities with their 45cals, semi's and auto's.
A 45cals heavier bullet, means more carrying power, as in inertia of weight, and can go thru doors, car doors, thru a corner wall, where the BG can be, far better, with less doubt, than both, the 40cal or 9mm. And that ends the BG's far faster, and for the better, than not.
To be fair, all calibers mentioned, are GOOD TO GO, with the right shot-placement by the shooter.
my 2 cents
LS
PS.. have you not seen, and heard, all the complaints of SUV's and their tank-driver ways? They do far more damage at 45mph, than any rice rocket coupe going 65mph.. why? Because of the SUV's weight, inertia, it does not slow down nearly as quick as a faster, but lighter, car, in an impact crash, to a complete stop.
...
My BIL, LA Swat, 22yrs, Sgt now, 1 year to go, to retirement said that, in SWAT, they used nothing but 45cals.. period.
When he left SWAT for the rank increase of pay for retirement purposes, he was back on the street, and that LA's Police Policy was that all street cops had to use Glock (for their continued firing, after torture testing, including dropping the same Glock from an 8 story building, loaded, chambered, and no misfires, no damage other than a chip of the front sight and barrel, and scratches, but kept on firing without fail.
But the MAIN reason they went 9mm, was for damage control, in that, a 45 can go thru things, beyond its target, and do damage to other "things".. Where as, the 9mm JHP's did not go thru things and beyond, and therefore, was and is, the standard issue for the street cops.
Bottom line: one Caliber, the 45 is more forgiving IMO, than either the 40cal's or 9mm's more unforgiving, in a near perfect hit, vs the same shot-placement of a larger 45 caliber.
Puppet show:
The 45cal goes < boom------> O
The 40cal goes boom^ ------> 0
The 9mm goes bang^ -------> o
End of Puppet show..
Once he made Sgt., some 3yrs ago, he was, and is, allowed to carry his trusty, best handgun friend, a 1911, Government Issue, 45cal.
Some things make sense to others, but worrying about a street cops self protection, and his missed shots, or shots that go thru, or beyond, at the expense of knockdown power, vs the 9mm that, IMO, needs a better place- shotment, overall, to do the job, as compared to a more forgiving 45cal, with more punch on impact, and bigger holes, for the safety of the 9mm's less carrying power, flys in the face of logic, IMO, when it comes to street cops vs the concrete jungle of mis-fits that roam the streets and cities with their 45cals, semi's and auto's.
A 45cals heavier bullet, means more carrying power, as in inertia of weight, and can go thru doors, car doors, thru a corner wall, where the BG can be, far better, with less doubt, than both, the 40cal or 9mm. And that ends the BG's far faster, and for the better, than not.
To be fair, all calibers mentioned, are GOOD TO GO, with the right shot-placement by the shooter.
my 2 cents
LS
PS.. have you not seen, and heard, all the complaints of SUV's and their tank-driver ways? They do far more damage at 45mph, than any rice rocket coupe going 65mph.. why? Because of the SUV's weight, inertia, it does not slow down nearly as quick as a faster, but lighter, car, in an impact crash, to a complete stop.
Last edited:
possum
Member
another reason that i stick with the .40 is the fact that i have approx 4000rds of brass. that depending on how many times i can reload it will have the possibility of lasting me a really long time.
i am starting to shoot .45 and will alot more in the future when i get my 1911, and i will reload both, and i don't think that i will need to go back to the 9mm, well at least not for a while.
i am starting to shoot .45 and will alot more in the future when i get my 1911, and i will reload both, and i don't think that i will need to go back to the 9mm, well at least not for a while.
MarshallDodge
Member
I like .40 and own a couple guns chambered for it. My next 1911 will probably be chambered for it. At the range when I am picking up brass the most popular is 9mm, then .40, and then .45. It used to be that 45 and 9 were all you saw in the early 90's but 40 has grown in popularity with the Glock/Sig/XD crowd.
If you sat down with a blank sheet of paper in front of you and decided to invent the best all purpose self-defense pistol round. And you decided to take into consideration and balance as much as possible; power verses recoil, diameter verses capacity, energy verses momentum, short barrel performance, long barrel performance, and pistol frame size, you would end up inventing the 40 S&W.
possum
Member
i as well have seen a definete trend in .40 and i find more and more of it at the indoor local range which is good for me i guess.
Redneck with a 40
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I've been a 40 fan since day one, when it came out in 1990. In my opinion, the 40 combines the best attributes of capacity, size (bullet and gun frame), short and long barrel performance, and power. In a short barrel, 3-3.5", the 40 leaves the 45 in the dust, plus it normally packaged in a 9mm sized frame. I'm more then willing to give up 2-3 rounds of 9mm in a magazine, in favor of the 40. The Taurus 24/7 40 has a 15+1 capacity, the 9mm a 17+1 capacity, this is a good trade-off in my view. I've read and heard lots of talk about the "snappy" recoil of the 40 and how its uncontrollable. I'll agree that it is "snappy", but its no big deal to me. I can easily rapid fire my XD-40, its totally controllable. I don't see what the big deal is.
Lots of folks mention they don't have a need for the 40, since most already own a 9mm or 45. In this case, thats understandable. For me, the 40 was my first pistol, I didn't own a 9mm or 45 prior to getting the 40. If someone is shopping for their first pistol, I think the 40 is ideal when it comes to power, capacity, and grip/frame size. However, it does take practice to master the 40, but its worth it, in my opinion.
Ammo cost for my reloaded ammo in 40S&W = $6.25/50.
Lots of folks mention they don't have a need for the 40, since most already own a 9mm or 45. In this case, thats understandable. For me, the 40 was my first pistol, I didn't own a 9mm or 45 prior to getting the 40. If someone is shopping for their first pistol, I think the 40 is ideal when it comes to power, capacity, and grip/frame size. However, it does take practice to master the 40, but its worth it, in my opinion.
Ammo cost for my reloaded ammo in 40S&W = $6.25/50.
Richard
Member
I am late to the fray but my opine is the 40 S&W is too popular. I see little that the 40 S&W does that a good 9mm or 45acp round doesn't do as well. I find the recoil of the 40 S&W to be snappy and the 45acp recoil to be more of a push back into your hand. Regards, Richard
I don't see what the point of that is? No you cannot buy a Glock 17 in .45, but so what? You cannot buy a Sig P226 in .45, and you cannot buy a P220 in .40. So what? I have nothing against the .40, but I don't see why it matters. In most cases, guns from the same manufacturer are so similar you could pick up a .40 or .45 and use it instinctively if you are familiar with one or the other already. Mechanically there is really no difference between a P220 or P226, a Glock 17 or a Glock 21, any USP, andy XD, any M&P, most any Smith auto that is not an M&P or 1911, etc. Also let's not forget all the custom 1911 makers out there.
You didn't see what I was quoting, someone said that the .40 is a fad round. Most companies make a 45, but they make more models of the 40 because they have a 40 in nearly every product line they have a 9mm in. Where as with the 45 often the 45 is contained into a single product line.
Im283
Member
I have never shot a .45
That being said I like the snappy re-coil in my .40S&W. It makes a real loud boom and is way fun to shoot. Kind of makes me want to shoot a .45 though.
bigger boom I am guessing. To me going to the range is all about the boom!
As for a defense round, bigger is not always better. I agree with those who talk about shot placement being key.
That being said I like the snappy re-coil in my .40S&W. It makes a real loud boom and is way fun to shoot. Kind of makes me want to shoot a .45 though.
bigger boom I am guessing. To me going to the range is all about the boom!
As for a defense round, bigger is not always better. I agree with those who talk about shot placement being key.
Pilgrim
Member
I owned .45 ACP and 9mm pistols before the .40 came out. I just don't see any need to stock another ammunition caliber. I'm sure the .40 is just fine, but the .45 ACP and the 9mm fill all my needs.
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
jad0110
Member
With proper placement, all 3 will get the job done IMO, as well as any handgun round can be expected to. Pick the one that is available in the package that fits your needs and that you shoot the best, its that simple. Don't be like the guy I saw at the range last summer: he rented two Glocks (one 9mm and one 40) and shot almost 50% tighter groups with the 9mm than the 40 (roughly 10" vs 6" at 7 yds), but went with the 40 just because it was a bit bigger 
.
Recoil is highly subjective - what feels good to one person may feel objectionable to another. For me: I never warmed up to the 40. To me, it feels like it combines the quick snap of the 9mm and the heavy push of the 45. As a result, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the 40 from the inside. With the doors closed . So, I prefer 9mm and 45 ACP. Then again, my favorite SD round is 38 special, a much underestimated cartridge that'll get 'er done with the right ammo and good shot placement.
BTW, the 45 to me has only a tad more BOOM than the 40 (see below), but the 45 has a whole lot less snap. That's just my hands talking though.
9mm: BANG
40: BOOM
45: BOOM
.Recoil is highly subjective - what feels good to one person may feel objectionable to another. For me: I never warmed up to the 40. To me, it feels like it combines the quick snap of the 9mm and the heavy push of the 45. As a result, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the 40 from the inside. With the doors closed
. So, I prefer 9mm and 45 ACP. Then again, my favorite SD round is 38 special, a much underestimated cartridge that'll get 'er done with the right ammo and good shot placement.BTW, the 45 to me has only a tad more BOOM than the 40 (see below), but the 45 has a whole lot less snap. That's just my hands talking though.
9mm: BANG
40: BOOM
45: BOOM
Greg8098
Member
Consolidations are good 10-Ring. Thinking of doing one myself. Tried it once, but didn't do so well . Oh well, if at first you dont succeed.................
. Oh well, if at first you dont succeed.................
great kicks like a 45 hits like a 9 whats not to love
Here are official gelatin results for DoubleTap loads!
All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.
DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"
DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"
DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"
I'm back did some research,seams these balistic tests would indicate my original post correct
Here are official gelatin results for DoubleTap loads!
All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.
DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"
DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"
DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"
I'm back did some research,seams these balistic tests would indicate my original post correct
OnDuty
Member
I would group 9mm and 45ACP in one group and then 40S&W in another. IMHO I can feel the snap in a 40s&w.
I've just never seen the point in it myself. Sold all of mine. I can get the same performance and capacity (or slightly more) with the 9mm, and not suffer the snappy torquey recoil. I may be crazy, but I've never seen a weapon in .40 that was as accurate as the same weapon chambered in 9mm or 45. It's still very popular nonetheless, I think it'll be around for quite some time.
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