I consider the 450 Marlin to be a 458 WSM lol
.444 Marlin, or 45-70
- Thread starter Joshua M.
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RPRNY
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444 Marlin is like the 45-70's peppy sidekick. Either one will do just about the same thing but if you need 300gr+ thrown down range, 45/70 is the ticket. Loading 444 with black powder is fun. Takes 60 grs under 285 gr wide meplat bullet. A little less of a push than the 45-70 and a little flatter shooting. Either is great. The 45-70 will still be around when the 444 is an old curiosity.
Guys, unlike all too many requests to compare cartridges without any parameters, the OP has been good enough to specify that he wants a lever action TO HUNT DEER.
I submit that he's not going to need heavy 444 bullets, lead bullets or the extra power possible with the 45-70 TO HUNT DEER.
greenmtnguy
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I'll also cast my vote for the 45/70 - of course I own one and load for it so perhaps I am biased. But, you have the capability of using anything from ~200 gn "button" bullets to nearly 500 gn solids, and everything in between, with cast, hollowpoint, softpoint, etc. available. The range of bullets available is large in this caliber. There are certainly many 44 caliber bullets available too but some number of the pistol bullets aren't appropriate for launching at ~2000 fps rifle velocities. Either will do plenty of damage to any deer or moose.
:banghead: I hate this question. You don't "need" either. It's a matter of "want". Both will lay the hurt on a deer. Neither round was designed to be a long range deer slayer. So I'm going to assume shots of 150 yards or less. As a 45-70 owner and reloader, I'm biased. But that is because I know what the 45-70 is capable of. I can throw 500 gr hardcasts at 1500 fps with my 45-70. The .444 can't. BUT you don't need upper limit "African adequate" capabilities. You need something that is going to kill Bambi.
I think if they do open it up, both cartridges will be available commercially. But if you are going to handload, just flip a coin.
I think if they do open it up, both cartridges will be available commercially. But if you are going to handload, just flip a coin.
eastbank
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you can get bullets weighting 365-470-535 grains in .44, you will need to get molds and cast them and you can shoot them at over 1400fps. the only draw back is that you will have to have the right twist for the long bullets. i have a book around here some where that has a remington rolling block rebarreled to 444 with the proper twist and it had shot some allsome groups. i have shot some 300gr .44 jacketed bullets at top speed,but the recoil is a killer in my winchester timber carbine.eastbank.
Elkins45
Member
Mine doesn't know that. It shoots a 300 grain cast gas checked bullet as well as any other round, and is as accurate as my shooting abilities with iron sights will allow. It also shoots the Ranch Dog cast 265 FP quite well.
That's a reasonable point, but at least it's based on the OP's actual situation rather than some irrelevant reason.I submit that if he's REALLY ONLY WANTING ONE TO HUNT DEER then he doesn't need any more than his 44 Mag that he already has.
Every gun has it's own quirks, that'd be why I said "can" instead of "will" also I noticed you qualified your accuracy requirements with limitations. Have you shot these 300 gr bullets at extended ranges where stability has more of an effect on accuracy.
I mean my microgroove 357 will shoot hard cast well enough for cowboy shooting at 25 yards but move out to 100 it won't stay on paper as the bullets are in full tumble.
Are you saying you can't hunt deer with cast bullets?
Or that you can't hunt deer with 300+ gr bullets?
No. But neither of those options has any advantage over conventional weight / type bullets FOR DEER, so any difference between the 444 and the 45-70 in handling them is irrelevant as far as the OP's needs are concerned.
Cast bullets are cheaper, making practice cheaper, practice makes one a better shot being a better shot is a big advantage when deer hunting
And I think other people should be free to judge for themselves if using cast or heavy bullets matters to them.
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They haven't said whether or not semi auto...just that they have to figure some way of plugging the tube to limit to only 3 rounds in the tube at once...That's the way it's always been with shotgun, and yet you can go out and carry a six gun, or hell even a 1911 with a full mag. There are to many beuracrats running our DNR... But anyway, thanks for all the responses, this thread has absolutely gotten me nowhere, other than thinking I ought to own at least 1 of each
Proposed hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
RPRNY
Member
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/bcompare.cgi
Hoping that takes you to a generic set of comparisons of the two cartridges. It's a little flawed because they use a 382gr bullet for the 45-70, which is underweight. But basically it shows that unless you want to use heavy weights, 300 gr plus, the two are pretty similar in many respects. For deer, the 444 is a little flatter. But I keep reading about these saber-toothed behemoths that can't be killed with a 30-30 anymore, so you may want the option of a 500 gr solid ;-)
Hoping that takes you to a generic set of comparisons of the two cartridges. It's a little flawed because they use a 382gr bullet for the 45-70, which is underweight. But basically it shows that unless you want to use heavy weights, 300 gr plus, the two are pretty similar in many respects. For deer, the 444 is a little flatter. But I keep reading about these saber-toothed behemoths that can't be killed with a 30-30 anymore, so you may want the option of a 500 gr solid ;-)
Elkins45
Member
100 yards. That's as far as I want to shoot with iron sights. No tumbling. I really think the microgroove rifling got a bad rap because people were shooting undersized cast. I've never had a problem shooting lead in microgroove barrels in either 45/70 or 444, but I don't send super hard undersized slugs rattling down the bore. Lead plays by different rules and the bullets need to be big enough to fit the grooves and soft enough to obturate the bore.
This is similar to Indiana. They were mostly interested in excluding stuff with a flat trajectory. Fears of bullets traveling forever over flat terrain is the main reason they don't allow rifles IIRC.
heycods
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76shuvlinoff
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I like this thread. I don't even hunt anymore but I am learning about the 45/70. I am waiting on the mailman for an 01 Marlin 1895cb. It's biggest planned chore is going to be to punch paper .... and I bet that paper will be DRT.
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I was hoping ODNR would stay with cartridges designed for handguns and not go crazy with rifle cartridges. A simple rifle, chambered in a handgun cartridge would certainly fill the ticket for deer. As I said in post 24, a handgun in 44 Magnum or 45 long Colt is more than sufficient. A rifle is ever more of the same.
DM~
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