5 Gunfighting Myths Debunked By Massad Ayoob

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"I just quoted two great gunfighters, Wyatt Earp and Bill Allard, who won many shootouts carefully aiming their guns"

yeah.... and because Wyatt Earp shoot-outs are comparable to your average SD shooting in the year 2015...

same holds true for his "debunking" of "you cannot justify shooting someone 15yds/25yds away" (just quoted from memory) ... yes... the UT Austin shooting was a far away sniper.... but GENERALLY speaking it's hard to justify a SD shooting at distances of 15/25yds....
 
texasgun said:
yeah.... and because Wyatt Earp shoot-outs are comparable to your average SD shooting in the year 2015...
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What do you see as significant differences between a gunfight in the 1880's and one in 2015?

Seems to me that in both cases you have a couple of people standing a couple of yards apart with firearms trying to stop each other as quickly as possible.

Pistols, shotguns, and rifles still work the same way. A cowboy with a couple of SAA's had more ammo readily available then most SD guns today.
 
The big difference between gunfights in the 1800s and now is smoke.

Those black powder guns bleached alot of smoke!

Other than that there was not much difference.

Deaf
 
Most of the examples were police actions which bear little resemblence to "Self defense"

The one civilian example was a jewelry store in a high crime area, again not truly representative
 
I don't think two people walk out into the street to have it out today. I believe most SD situations where a firearm is used happens without warning to the defensive person. This situation removes the ability to be mentally prepared to shoot to kill and instead inserts a "shoot to survive" situation which involves either instinctive shooting generated by endless practice or panic shooting using a "pray and spray" tactic. Pray and spray necessitates a large capacity magazine. Given my choice, I would far prefer a situation where I could use my Ruger Blackhawk revolver or my Ruger Security Six. However, those who wish to commit mayhem on the general population probably will not consult me as to what I might have with me on any particular day so maybe a 40 or 45 caliber pistol with a 10 shot magazine is necessary due to the uncertainty.
 
I agree that this is interesting reading.

I also agree that it is more geared toward law enforcement officers, those who must seek out, get in, and stay in, the fight, than it is toward the typical non-LE defensive situation. But, some elements do indeed overlap, and should be taken in consideration by anyone armed for defense.
 
I don't think two people walk out into the street to have it out today
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No, I don't think so either.

Typically they are already out in the street shouting insults at each other.

Or, you are standing in line at a 7-11 waiting to buy a big slurpy and pay for your gas.
When two idiots come in to rob the place.

Or, you are setting in your porch swing when a gang-banger gets dissed down the street because somebody in your hood scuffed his new sneakers last week.

And he unloads a Glock 17 in your direction while jumping up & down holding his crotch with one hand shouting insults in your general direction.

rc
 
I don't think two people walk out into the street to have it out today.
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I suspect the High Noon scenario took place more - a lot more - in Hollywood than in Dodge City, Tombstone, or Dry Gulch.

Ayoob's commentaries are usually thoughtful and well-written and often contain a lot of good information. BUT - sometimes when questioned his response doesn't engender much confidence - it's usually something along the lines of "I'm the expert and unless you know as much as I do (and you don't!) you shouldn't question me. And by the way, I know a whole lot of stuff I really can't talk about in detail and which you can't check out yourself, but believe me, it's real."
 
rcmodel said:
No, I don't think so either.

Typically they are already out in the street shouting insults at each other.

Or, you are standing in line at a 7-11 waiting to buy a big slurpy and pay for your gas.
When two idiots come in to rob the place.

Or, you are setting in your porch swing when a gang-banger gets dissed down the street because somebody in your hood scuffed his new sneakers last week.

And he unloads a Glock 17 in your direction while jumping up & down holding his crotch with one hand shouting insults in your general direction.

rc
Click to expand...
This would definitely necessitate the use of a rifle. BTW I do also buy a lot slurpees and big gulps. Which also BTW is farther than SD range.
 
...Or, you are setting in your porch swing when a gang-banger gets dissed down the street because somebody in your hood scuffed his new sneakers last week.

And he unloads a Glock 17 in your direction while jumping up & down holding his crotch with one hand shouting insults in your general direction.
...
Click to expand...

They jump up and down and hold their crotch while shooting, out by you, too?

Do you think this will replace Isosceles?
 
I think it already has in most shootings today.

The folks using Isosceles don't often make the news as victims though.
So it's hard to count.


BTW: I would like to know what the Kansas City MO PD training is?

They get in a gun fight, the BG always loses.
And they don't unleash 3 x 17 x 3 officers to do it, ever.

(153 rounds per BG, like they do in NYC)

I pity the fool that gets in a gun fight with a K.C. Cop!!
Whatever they are doing in training, they must be doing it right !!

rc
 
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The best advice I saw was the last statement, BEWARE ABSOLUTES.
Or if you must, at least believe in absolutes that don't delude and favor what might be your perfect encounter.
 
texasgun said:
"I just quoted two great gunfighters, Wyatt Earp and Bill Allard, who won many shootouts carefully aiming their guns"

yeah.... and because Wyatt Earp shoot-outs are comparable to your average SD shooting in the year 2015...

same holds true for his "debunking" of "you cannot justify shooting someone 15yds/25yds away" (just quoted from memory) ... yes... the UT Austin shooting was a far away sniper.... but GENERALLY speaking it's hard to justify a SD shooting at distances of 15/25yds....
Click to expand...

Just because it isn't a sniper doesn't mean it isn't a danger. True, most self defense scenarios happen at closer range but I can imagine a number of reasonably likely scenarios that would involve a threat at a longer distance.
 
Saying it's hard to justify an SD shooting at 15/25 yards is utter nonsense.



A threat is a threat.

A hostile knife at 15 yards is a demonstrable threat.
A hostile gun at 25 yards can kill you.

The distance is not an absolute.
Denis
 
You can't use a tape measurer when someone decides to shoot at you. You also are not going to wait until you feel that they have reached the appropriate distance that you were expecting when an attempt on your life is made. If someone is shooting at you, and you aren't in a position to magically disappear, it's likely that you will return fire whatever the distance.
I would not hesitate to shoot someone at 50 yards, if they were shooting at me. Things have a habit of happening the opposite of what you were expecting.
 
but GENERALLY speaking it's hard to justify a SD shooting at distances of 15/25yds....
Click to expand...

Did you actually read the article, if not this quote should help clear things up.



I don’t mean to insult anyone, but this statement flunks the litmus test for cluelessness. By definition, if you were able to shoot him at that distance, he was able to shoot you at that distance. - See more at: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...-myths-debunked-massad-ayoob/#armed-and-ready
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He's 'Da Man'....I always take time to read anything Mas has to say on the latest gun trends and on self defense in general. Thank you for posting.

Laura
 
.... but GENERALLY speaking it's hard to justify a SD shooting at distances of 15/25yds....
Click to expand...
Utter BS. Is there some magic by which bad mens are prohibited from shooting at you from those distances? Further??? No.

In fact, the one and only time I thought I was going to have to draw my weapon in self defense a wannabe 1%-er was standing 20yds away with a rifle. Would I not be justified in shooting an aggressor at 20yds pointing a rifle at me? Does he have to close the distance or fire a shot to be a threat?
 
ok... so assuming somebody points a rifle at you (doesn't shoot) at 25yds+ distance and you fire the first shot and kill the guy....

the DA will be very interested in knowing:

- how you could see the guy was even threatening you at that distance?
- was his hand even on the trigger?
- could he hear you? could you hear him?

and and and...

cops can shoot somebody for merely pointing a firearm at them with no question asked. your CHL/CPL does NOT give you that right necessarily.

at 25yds+ you have a much harder case to make that you felt your life was in immediate danger...

and no: the average SD shooting is not a high-noon style gun fight in the middle of a deserted village street with 5 guys against 5 guys and 20yds+ distance....
 
I believe Ayoob got his expertise in investigating shootings,not being involved in them.
There is always the exception to the rule.
 
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