7.62x51 (.308) bear loads
- Thread starter mini14gb
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I'm sure your a nice guy Greg but we are just not going to agree on this. If you have common sense then you should be able to look at history and determine that .30 cal rifles can stop a bear attack because they have many many times. Common sense would tell you that its enough.
Greg Koziol
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best of luck to you mini 14... i understand what you are trying to say and i understand what your use will be and i'm sorry for being overly aggressive... i just get irritated when some people start making posts... not you but others, and start saying that a .308 or similar size round is adequate for stopping charging bears... that just irritates me and i have to set these people straight
No offense Greg, but at 24 years old many of us here are twice your age and have plenty of experience with this type of thing. Eventhough your opinion is still valued, don't be so quick to say everyone is wrong.
Like I said, not trying to belittle you, just want you to try to relax and be a little more open to other ideas. Keep your thoughts coming, but try to engage in good friendly discussion. This is an intersesting thread, there are many opinions here that I find useful....I'd like to see it keep going.
I can tell you that the .308 round will put a hurtin on anything that walks in N. America. It's not a bad option for an all around defensive semi auto when in the wild. In fact, it's probably the most sensible.
Like I said, not trying to belittle you, just want you to try to relax and be a little more open to other ideas. Keep your thoughts coming, but try to engage in good friendly discussion. This is an intersesting thread, there are many opinions here that I find useful....I'd like to see it keep going.
I can tell you that the .308 round will put a hurtin on anything that walks in N. America. It's not a bad option for an all around defensive semi auto when in the wild. In fact, it's probably the most sensible.
Ridgerunner665
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Thats not entirely true...not entirely false either.
Even KodiakBeer agreed...bigger is better, even if your shot is off.
Greg Koziol
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I am a nice guy, Im not saying you couldn't stop a bear with it, but for "bear protection" .30 caliber is not optimal and some people were advocating that it was and the way they were making it sound was that it could stop a bear without proper placement because of super velocities... and thats just not true.
Greg Koziol
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no offense taken ... i've been around the block my friend, and i dont need to be 48 years old to understand that a 30 caliber round is not big enough to stop a worst case scenario situation with a bear...
Don't size up your manhood to me please, i don't care how old you are... don't play that card please i've been around the block
BY CHARGING BEAR I MEAN WORST CASE SCENARIO: which means the bear has his mind set on attacking you.... and your inside 100 yards and he's comin at you 40 miles per house
Greg Koziol
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Why should I relax and open up to other peoples ideas when they won't do the same for me?
So i'm supposed to compromise my beliefs for other people when they won't do the same for me... that doesn't make any sense
It may count if you are like 1/8 of an inch off target....what is that probability???
From 30-06 class and up cartridge (with proper bullets) the improved chances of survival if you have. let's say a 375 H&H, are infinintesimal at best.
Greg if you think that you need a 458 WM to stop a bear charge, more power to you, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
What you cannot do is deny reality in the form of thousands of grizzly that for decades have fallen to a 30-06 and similar cartridges.
Nobody died in a bear attack only because was using a 30-06 instead of a bigger boomer...that is a fact.
What you cannot do is deny reality in the form of thousands of grizzly that for decades have fallen to a 30-06 and similar cartridges.
Nobody died in a bear attack only because was using a 30-06 instead of a bigger boomer...that is a fact.
Greg Koziol
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I do think a .458 win mag is needed to stop a bear thats charging with the intent to kill you and is within 100 yards...
Greg Koziol
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Saturno V ... your obviously a strong advocate of .30 caliber high powered modern rifles and your trying to indoctrinate and assimilate people to believe the same way you believe withyour fancy stats..... don't mislead people into think that a 30 caliber rifle is adequate to stop a chargin bear that is dangerous for other people reading this... you do realize that right?
Maverick223
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Not entirely true, whilst I wouldn't want to count on it, a larger projectile will also have greater wounding capability due to crushing more tissue (all else being equal), and generally penetrate more (again all else being equal).
Greg I can tell you that if you shoot a bear that is within 100 yards in self defense you will be in serious trouble with the law. 100 yards, 50 yards, 30 yards will all get you in serious trouble with the law. Those distances to do not merit attack thwarting status. It had better be under 10 yards to be TOTALLY safe from prosecution depending on the investigators and the DA. We are cool Greg, I don't need to understand your opinion nor you mine I suppose.
I've been on brown bear hunts and I have my own experiences but I just had a long conversation with my cousin who guided brown bear hunts for 15 years. We talked about many things so I will just point out a few for the uninformed or misinformed.
1. in order to survive a charge you do not need to kill the bear. You need to CHANGE HIS MIND. This can be done as sure as god made little green apples with a shotgun and bird shot. Yes, that's right birdshot. A bear is just a bear.
It is not an M1a1 abrams tank on meth.
2. This guy has stepped between hunters and sows with cubs at 10 yards while packing meat out to prevent them from shooting the sow. Read the bear and have your gun leveled at their head and think of nothing else but shooting that bear but you do not need to.
3. He agrees that all charges are real and your own reaction to it determines the outcome.
4. He also says that he would be perfectly fine with a .308 and a 20 rnd mag.
5. He also said that a .375 H&H will take a full grown brown bear off its feet. He has had them as close as 5 yards and still felt he had the upper hand.
6. This guy shot and interier grizzly at 12 yards with a bow that was eating his sheep kill with no back up or gun at all. And he has BRASS BALLS to be sure. I think your ok with your SOCOM 16!
1. in order to survive a charge you do not need to kill the bear. You need to CHANGE HIS MIND. This can be done as sure as god made little green apples with a shotgun and bird shot. Yes, that's right birdshot. A bear is just a bear.
It is not an M1a1 abrams tank on meth.
2. This guy has stepped between hunters and sows with cubs at 10 yards while packing meat out to prevent them from shooting the sow. Read the bear and have your gun leveled at their head and think of nothing else but shooting that bear but you do not need to.
3. He agrees that all charges are real and your own reaction to it determines the outcome.
4. He also says that he would be perfectly fine with a .308 and a 20 rnd mag.
5. He also said that a .375 H&H will take a full grown brown bear off its feet. He has had them as close as 5 yards and still felt he had the upper hand.
6. This guy shot and interier grizzly at 12 yards with a bow that was eating his sheep kill with no back up or gun at all. And he has BRASS BALLS to be sure. I think your ok with your SOCOM 16!
Blitzen, thank for the insight to your cousins experience. There was a Pheasant hunter here in Montana who killed a charging Grizzly dead in its tracks with bird shot on the Flathead Indian Reservation outside Charlo, Montana back in 2004. He hit the big bear at point blank range. The bear hit the gun so hard it bent the barrel. The gun can be seen hanging on the wall in the Charlo Bar.
scythefwd
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I tend to agree with saturno_V on the stop a bear in it's tracks for the most part. I say it isn't going to happen. If you take a 1k bear moving 30 mph right at you and hit it com with a 50 bmg, it will still make forward progress (and at that weight, even if it is dead it could kill you while rolling). The .308 is up to the task, but it isn't most likely an instant kill. I'd practice with that .308 until you can make repeated on target hits with it quickly. If I saw a grizz who was set on making it a bad day for me I wouldn't stop till I heard click, and I might reload and do it again.
Nevermind then...the fact your talking to us like we're idiots has a lot to do with your reception.
Lets be clear that most Grizzly bears never make it to 1000 pounds or any where near that especially inland Grizzlies. This poor bear was killed by a truck near Lincoln, Montana near where I'm building my cabin which I intend to make my full-time residence. This bear topped out at 830 pounds which is not typical of your average Montana Grizzly Bear.
Grizzly bears are North America’s second largest land carnivore, after the polar bear. Size and weight varies greatly according to geographic location. Inland bears, particularly those of the Yukon region, may weigh as little as 135 kg (300 lb) for adult males. The largest populations are found in coastal areas where weights are as much as 550 kg (1,200 lb). Populations found in Katmai National Park and the Alaskan Peninsula may approach or just exceed 680 kg (1,500 lb). The females are on average 38% smaller,[3] at about 115–160 kg (250–350 lb),[4] an example of sexual dimorphism. On average, grizzly bears stand about 1 metre (3.3 ft) at the shoulder when on all fours and 2 metres (6.6 ft) on their hind legs,[5] but males often stand 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) or more on their hind legs.
scythefwd
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mini - I'll accept that. My point, was that a heavy moving object isn't going to be stopped by a high energy bullet, or any other bullet. Not all forward progress stopped. These animals can be killed quickly and humanely with a 30 caliber bullet, and a CNS shot is about the only way to get you out of trouble when a big one comes calling your number. I think that hitting a CNS shot, when pressed is a difficult shot, especially when you are the stakes. It's not exactly a large target, and it isn't exactly moving slow. I'd feel comfortable with a .308, but I'd have to do a lot of shooting to get me absolutely sure I could hit a basketball moving 30 mph towards me (the head is the largest CNS spot on a bear). I don't even take shots on deer moving faster than a walk because of what I think about my skill level, so a mag dump or two would be my best option. I'd be aiming for the head, but even if I miss and just hit body hopefully the pain would slow bessie down enough for me to get out of the way. Hopefully it would be enough to change bessie's mind. I'd then have to call for backup and track the poor thing to make sure it wasn't suffering any more than needed.
NWCP
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Regardless what rifle you decide to carry around your new home I hope you enjoy the heck out of your cabin. Sounds like it's something you've wanted to do for some time. If you intend on making it your permanent residence you have the luxury of keeping more than one rifle on hand, or a large caliber wheel gun for that matter. The .308 is a fine cartridge and is one of my favorites. I own both a bolt action and a semi auto in .308. I also own a semi auto in .338 Win Mag. I'd feel somewhat better knowing I had it on hand if encountering a grizzly up close and personal. Then again I'd prefer to not be put in that situation in the first place.
scythefwd,
Sorry but thats not always true. There is a Cabelas guide video that shows a massive coastal Brown Bear being stopped dead in her tracks with cubs in tow by a .30 cal rifle. The guide shot her at 8 yards and she reeled backwards and died about 50 yards away. However I will acknowledge that not all incidences are the same and your point is valid to say the least.
Sorry but thats not always true. There is a Cabelas guide video that shows a massive coastal Brown Bear being stopped dead in her tracks with cubs in tow by a .30 cal rifle. The guide shot her at 8 yards and she reeled backwards and died about 50 yards away. However I will acknowledge that not all incidences are the same and your point is valid to say the least.
Ridgerunner665
Member
There is more than one way to stop an animal...(forward momentum of a dead animal not included)
A CNS hit will kill instantly, a big bullet through both shoulders will make him do a nose dive...even if not dead, he won't be running 35 mph anymore. Busting the pelvis will do the same thing except instead of as nose dive he be dragging his behind...again, not at 35 mph.
Even busting one shoulder will slow him down...enough for another shot.
One can never know how it will play out...until it has played out.
A CNS hit will kill instantly, a big bullet through both shoulders will make him do a nose dive...even if not dead, he won't be running 35 mph anymore. Busting the pelvis will do the same thing except instead of as nose dive he be dragging his behind...again, not at 35 mph.
Even busting one shoulder will slow him down...enough for another shot.
One can never know how it will play out...until it has played out.
scythefwd
Member
mini- was it a full bore charge? I obviously haven't seen the video. I do think you can stop a bear dead in it's tracks hunting, because the bear might not be already moving out. But at 30 mph, nothing stops on a dime. The bear might turn around and leave, but it still made some forward progress coming to a stop. It's a matter of semantics though, and not worth arguing over. We know what the other means, and that is enough.
Ridgerunner - if you are able to put a bullet through both shoulders, it isn't charging you. It is a broadside shot (or more than 1 bullet). Again, it's just semantics and I'm giving you a hard time.
Ridgerunner - if you are able to put a bullet through both shoulders, it isn't charging you. It is a broadside shot (or more than 1 bullet). Again, it's just semantics and I'm giving you a hard time.
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