I had a SW 317 LS - in 22 LR. The trigger pull was horrible. I don't see how it would be easier for anyone with limited strength. This is a more extreme solution for someone with truly bad hands. A single action revolver. The theory is have a gun at least. Mas recommended that for some badly arthritic person, IIRC. I had a Ruger SS 22 LR Bearcat. Very sweet gun. I sold it for monetary reasons. Now, there is a wave of new SA 22 revolvers that are not expensive. If one wanted to move up in caliber - there are 32 cal SA guns - harder to find but with mild wadcutters, probably easy to shoot. Now, I know all the ins and outs of using SA, semis, DA/SA and their pros and cons. The suggestion is for the truly problematic case to have some kind of gun.
A .22 handgun for home self defense?
- Thread starter gunny2
- Start date
thunderbyrd
Member
if you have to use a .22, i say make it a revolver and make it a 22 magnum. there are 9 shot .22 revolvers.
First you might be surprised to find out most don't consider mini mags to be match ammo or that Eley makes high velocity hollow points for hunting.
Second I'm specifically making note of comments like.
And
Of course a much larger grip would change the perception of recoil but not the fact that the round produces more recoil energy.
I mean sticking a larger round in an even larger gun is as always one way to mitigate recoil, but a bigger gun isn't always desired.
Jim Watson
Member
My M&P C is very reliable, 100% with MMs.
My main .22 revolver is a Combat Masterpiece. It is reliable IF rounds are well seated in the tight S&W chambers. If you just casually poke one in, it is like a high primer on a reload, the hammer fall won't seat it all the way and fire it.
I had tinkered with the strain screw but then turned it all the way in for reliable ignition, even though the pull is a little heavier than a centerfire. Smooth and not bothersome.
My Charter Pathfinder fires reliably but it has their odd trigger stroke, it doesn't exactly stack, it kind of builds to a peak and rolls off. I call it a "staple gun" action.
I once had a Kit Gun but somebody had messed with the action and it took a trip to the factory to be returned to stock and reliable operation. My FLG has it now.
My main .22 revolver is a Combat Masterpiece. It is reliable IF rounds are well seated in the tight S&W chambers. If you just casually poke one in, it is like a high primer on a reload, the hammer fall won't seat it all the way and fire it.
I had tinkered with the strain screw but then turned it all the way in for reliable ignition, even though the pull is a little heavier than a centerfire. Smooth and not bothersome.
My Charter Pathfinder fires reliably but it has their odd trigger stroke, it doesn't exactly stack, it kind of builds to a peak and rolls off. I call it a "staple gun" action.
I once had a Kit Gun but somebody had messed with the action and it took a trip to the factory to be returned to stock and reliable operation. My FLG has it now.
Where are you getting this information? Do you leave your house unlocked so people do not have to force entry? If someone forces entry, they are armed with something even if not a gun. Did you know that a screwdriver or hammer can kill you? Further, people who break into occupied structures are a special sort of crazy. In all but the bluest cities, people who use deadly force against strangers who broke into their occupied structures are not likely to face adverse legal consequences. You think that burglars don't consider that possibility and have a contingency plan to deal with it besides just running away?
The aiming points for effectively stopping people will correspond with the ones most likely to cause death if not promptly treated. You are splitting hairs if you want just enough to stop them but without killing them. Are you in the "I'll just aim for the leg" group? Consider getting a Taser or a bean bag shotgun, although both are known to fail, and they require prompt follow-up once deployed.
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"Accuracy", in the sense of group size or target scores, is not a relevant parameter in defensive shooting, because the target will be close and likely moving very quickly. Rapidity of controlled fire is, however, very important. It will be influenced by many things, inluding recoil and trigger pull. The DA trigger on a rimfire revolver is usually too long and heavy for most people to use effectively, and it is not prudent to cock the hammer.
A .22 pistol has far less penetration capability than a rifle.
Really? By the time they have been in your kitchen, you have to consider them armed
Good.
That is also the only lawful objective of sworn officers, and for them, handguns renging from .38 Special to .45 are usually recommended, and possibly a .380 for back-up.
Performance requirements for effecting physical stops are discussed at some length in Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness.
Choctaw
Member
The very first shooting I responded to involved a .22lr revolver. The victim was hit multiple times with the 22 and still had enough left in him to kill his assailant with a knife. When we arrived the victim was sitting on a barstool, bleeding. Not everyone gives up just because they're in pain. For fighting I would suggest using a heavy enough round to incapacitate the bad guy and terminate the threat.
bdickens
Member
Perhaps in Mayberry where you live. Don't count on that out here in the real world.
Okay match grade ammo may have been too specific a term. I've never seen mini-mags or Eley in a 500 round bulk pack for $12.
In any case, most people do not have your experience with 22 rimfire. I've shot enough that I've seen a few squibs or otherwise defective factory centerfire rounds. I've seen way, way more failures with rimfire. Some due to bad ammunition, some due to a dirty chamber.
As for the thread in general...
We're really getting into the weeds here on a thread that should be fairly simple. Any round larger or more reliable than a 22lr is a better choice for self defense unless that is all you have. Low recoil because you're old and have arthritis? I have 2 steel frame single action 380s I haven't gotten rid of only because I figure in 20 years I might not be able to shoot my other guns.
The vast majority of self defense incidents are psychological stops. 22lr is okay for that. Anything else involves some luck. And I know a 22 will drop a cow with a shot to the brain stem, but try hitting that on a moving target that's shooting you through your bedroom door.
If someone here wants to use a 22lr for self defense, go for it, but acknowledge the disadvantages. And I say that as someone who typically carries a 32. If you figure that works with your acceptable level of risk, then go for it. But there are more effective options.
We're really getting into the weeds here on a thread that should be fairly simple. Any round larger or more reliable than a 22lr is a better choice for self defense unless that is all you have. Low recoil because you're old and have arthritis? I have 2 steel frame single action 380s I haven't gotten rid of only because I figure in 20 years I might not be able to shoot my other guns.
The vast majority of self defense incidents are psychological stops. 22lr is okay for that. Anything else involves some luck. And I know a 22 will drop a cow with a shot to the brain stem, but try hitting that on a moving target that's shooting you through your bedroom door.
If someone here wants to use a 22lr for self defense, go for it, but acknowledge the disadvantages. And I say that as someone who typically carries a 32. If you figure that works with your acceptable level of risk, then go for it. But there are more effective options.
First you ain't seeing 500 round bulk packs for $12 without a time machine.
Second you're still missing the second point.
Yes if one is insistent on using bulk 22, yes it's notoriously inconsistent. But that doesn't make ALL 22 inconsistent.
Already addressed bad ammo, why would one leave the chamber dirty on a 22 for self defense?
Every test I have ever seen of any 22lr has shown the best 22lr is less reliable than the cheapest 9mm centerfire ammunition.
Don't forget that this is in the context of using 22lr for self defense.
I'm not personally taking up an almost always reliable 22lr to defend the lives of my family, over a more powerful centefire cartridge that goes bang every time. There's absolutely no advantage to it.
halfmoonclip
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Easing up on the mainspring on a .22 is never a good idea, it even has to be done carefully on centerfires.
Already mentioned my daughter's .22 Centennial; I slicked the action, but let the mainspring full power.
Understand a double action .22 falls well short of a perfect defensive arm (that argument, to its logical conclusion, leads to an AR). It is an okay solution, in a relatively low risk situation. If you're not an experienced shooter, fear of recoil makes it unlikely that you'll hit a damned thing with a serious caliber.
All defensive gun choices are compromises; some require more tradeoffs than others.
Moon
JERRY
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That's hardly a caliber problem. This sort of thing happens in police calibers as well.
A couple thousand years of recorded history.
The challenge was for someone to provide a basis for the assertion "The vast majority of self defense incidents are psychological stops. 22lr is okay for that".
That reply does not provide any support at all for the first part, nd we will not find a "couple thousand years of history" on the .22LR.
first, choosing a 22lr caliber firearm for protection assumes that you are a normal, sane, law-abiding civilian who needs to break contact with the threat; not a cop, armored car guard, bailiff, soldier, big game guide, criminal… if you are truly facing the imminent threat of ms13 gangbangers invading your home, you have way more worries than caliber choice. if you likely have frequent contact with meth-heads, low-life acquaintances or nasty drunks, remove yourself from their company. if you work in a late night convenience store find another job. firearm caliber choice is one of many choices that we make in life. protection is layered, a firearm is but one layer, smart life choices and physical barriers are crucial forms of protection.
anyone trained in a 22lr firearm is better off. if 22lr is all you can physically or financially handle then get one and be done. buy alot of good ammo for it (cci these days) and practice alot. 22lr is easy on your wallet and body, so practice with 22lr is actually fun.
it is really tiresome to hear the immature canard that getting shot with 22lr will only anger the attacker. if you can financially and physically handle a larger centerfire caliber then by all means go there but folks who ask about 22lr for protection already have an inkling of their own limits. never belittle one’s inner voice. hits trump misses and no centerfire firearm offers a proximity fuse.
i have owned, and shoot alot, many rimfire firearms. in brief, ruger owns rimfire. a ruger 10-22 semiauto rifle and a ruger sr22 semiauto pistol loaded with $10-12/100 cci minimags are easy choices, cannot go wrong. use only factory mags. single-action revolvers are great outdoors pieces, too slow yet better than absolutely nothing for home protection. double-action rimfire revolvers (ruger lcr, taurus 92, s&w 317) have stout trigger pulls. the ruger mark and 22/45 handguns are a tad heavy. the ruger lcp22 is kinda small and might be troublesome to manipulate by persons with hand arthritis. taurus tx22 and s&w m&p 22 compact could be worthy choices too, but i’ve not tried them.
those of us with gray hair now likely started out shooting a 22lr rifle in boy scouts, nra, 4h, ffa or a high school club. as we age out and move on from this earthly vale we will likely finish with a 22lr firearm. for everyone younger, the seal team wannabes, gun store cowboys, etc, you will get here too one day so be understanding and please keep an open mind.
anyone trained in a 22lr firearm is better off. if 22lr is all you can physically or financially handle then get one and be done. buy alot of good ammo for it (cci these days) and practice alot. 22lr is easy on your wallet and body, so practice with 22lr is actually fun.
it is really tiresome to hear the immature canard that getting shot with 22lr will only anger the attacker. if you can financially and physically handle a larger centerfire caliber then by all means go there but folks who ask about 22lr for protection already have an inkling of their own limits. never belittle one’s inner voice. hits trump misses and no centerfire firearm offers a proximity fuse.
i have owned, and shoot alot, many rimfire firearms. in brief, ruger owns rimfire. a ruger 10-22 semiauto rifle and a ruger sr22 semiauto pistol loaded with $10-12/100 cci minimags are easy choices, cannot go wrong. use only factory mags. single-action revolvers are great outdoors pieces, too slow yet better than absolutely nothing for home protection. double-action rimfire revolvers (ruger lcr, taurus 92, s&w 317) have stout trigger pulls. the ruger mark and 22/45 handguns are a tad heavy. the ruger lcp22 is kinda small and might be troublesome to manipulate by persons with hand arthritis. taurus tx22 and s&w m&p 22 compact could be worthy choices too, but i’ve not tried them.
those of us with gray hair now likely started out shooting a 22lr rifle in boy scouts, nra, 4h, ffa or a high school club. as we age out and move on from this earthly vale we will likely finish with a 22lr firearm. for everyone younger, the seal team wannabes, gun store cowboys, etc, you will get here too one day so be understanding and please keep an open mind.
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Do you understand what a psychological stop is?
Do you understand a psychological stop may not actually require impact or even shots fired?
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Good points.
Although in that situation, I'd rather thumb cock a DA/SA revolver with a swing out cylinder than deal with a poke-a-shell ejector rod on a SAO revolver. I love my Bearcat and Single Sixes, but I can thumb cock a good DA/SA just as easy.
Not that ejecting and reloading may matter . . .
JERRY
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For some it's not a hand strength limitation but rather an arthritic one. Pulling a heavy double action trigger with sore wrists and thumbs isn't difficult, however recoil directed back into the hand and twisting muzzle flip is.
Now, if your trigger finger is all janky that's another story.
That does not begin to address the questions.
Th eposter said that "rhw vast majority of self defense incidents" are psydologicalstops, stating that as fact. I asked for the basis of that assertion.
Th poster said that a .22LR is "okay for that". I asked for the basis of his opinion.
Well depending on which statistics you look at, there are between 5 and 10 times more defensive uses of firearms where no shots are fired. My 2000 years of recorded history was meant to imply that the axiom that criminals tend to avoid armed resistance hasn't changed ever. Sorry if that fact is lost for you.
If no shots are fired what difference does caliber make?
It’s viable. In fact I often recommend a Ruger 10/22 with a 25 round magazine loaded with CCI high velocity solids. These guns are reliable , accurate and offer fast shooting. You can mag dump 6-8 rounds per second into an intruder. This rifle is a better home defense weapon than an unreliable pistol such as the Smith EZ380. I’d take the 10/22 every time
None.
But not all psychological stops occur without shots being fired.
The poster has still not replied to the question.