About Home Defense gun selection - why no shotshell revolvers

[Wisco]

Really. How do you know what I have in my collection?

You posted a photo of a Ruger Alaskan and a Judge. Not your guns?

 

[knot4reel]

I don't own a Jeep Wrangler because it's the best vehicle for everything, I own it because I need a small truck/SUV and it's cool.

Then I guess you don't know about the better choices you should be making. Wranglers are gas guzzling, rough riding , reliabilty nightmares, not to mention the safety hazzards involved. Why in the world would you take the risk of driving one. You should be in a nice mini van. A proven choice.

 

[Wisco]

Double post

 

[knot4reel]

You posted a photo of a Ruger Alaskan and a Judge. Not your guns?

Sure are. Whats your point?

 

[Wisco]

Then I guess you don't know about the better choices you should be making. Wranglers are gas guzzling, rough riding , reliabilty nightmares, not to mention the safety hazzards involved. Why in the world would you take the risk of driving one. You should be in a nice mini van. A proven choice.

Yes. That's what I was saying. Thanks for backing me up!

 

[Wisco]

Sure are. Whats your point?

My point is that with the right loading, the Alaskan is the better choice for putting better bullets on target faster and more accurately than a Judge.

 

[knot4reel]

Ok, that is helpful.


Ok! So, it's a gun you find fun to play with, and it has the added bonus of ammo available that seems potentially lethal enough that you make it your self defense choice as well.

That's a pretty reasonable answer to why you use it for defense, giving a clear picture of how you come to the decision. Thank you. Whether others would find your reasons convincing is entirely up to them, but at least now they know the length and depth of your own analysis.

Why would I? I don't care whether you LIKE it. In fact, I'm glad you do! I wouldn't want you to be stuck with a gun you don't enjoy.

I could make strong arguments as to why I wouldn't make the same choice for self-defense purposes, but I assume you can figure those out for yourself, trust that you have already at least thought about them and decided they don't matter to you, and gather from the tone of this whole conversation (starting with your "get ready to rumble" opening) that you really aren't interested in being convinced of anything.

In that quote you would have, or at least you implied so when you said "who's saying the Judge is a better choice?"

Of course lots of other people strongly believe it is a poor choice, but we were not talking about them, but about the two oddly conflicting statements you had made.

Now this is progress. I'm agreeing with a lot your saying here.

 

[knot4reel]

My point is that with the right loading, the Alaskan is the better choice for putting better bullets on target faster and more accurately than a Judge.

What are you saying is the right loading, perhaps .45c. If so well guess what else can load this round. And we don't need to go into the whole accuracy thing because remember I practice and shoot this thing a lot with just about everything that will fit the cylinders.

 

[knot4reel]

Yes. That's what I was saying. Thanks for backing me up!

Ask me how I know.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

From a strictly wound ballistics perspective:

A single 000 buckshot pellet (.36 caliber) possesses a surface area of 0.102 square inches. Four of them have a combined surface area of 0.41 square inches. Five have a combined surface area of 0.51 square inches.

Compare this to the surface area of bullets that expand to 1.8 to 2 times their unfired diameter:

• 9mm: 0.32 – 0.40 square inches
• .40 caliber: 0.41 – 0.50 square inches
• .45 caliber: 0.52 – 0.64 square inches

Shape is also a factor in the amount of tissue crushed by a penetrating projectile. The shape of an expanded JHP will crush a larger diameter hole in soft tissues than the smooth contour of an undeformed spherical buckshot pellet. The wound cavity produced by a single, hardened lead and plated 000 buckshot pellet (.36 caliber) is comparable to a single 9mm (.355 caliber) roundnose FMJ bullet. Also keep in mind that most JHP handgun bullets recovered from bodies reveal expansion performance very similar to the same bullets recovered from ordnance gelatin covered by four layers of heavy denim cloth, usually 1.6 times unfired diameter.

Federal states the velocity of its four 000 buckshot load (#PD412 JGE 000) is 850 fps, and five 000 buckshot load (#PD413 JGE 000) is 755 fps. These two loads were developed specifically for the Judge revolver and the velocities claimed are velocities achieved when fired from a Judge revolver. (These two .410 loads are the only loads I recommend for defense in any .410 firearm.)

The weight of a single 000 pellet is 70 grains, therefore four 000 buckshot pellets weigh a combined 280 grains and five weigh 350 grains combined.

For additional comparison Federal’s 12 gauge 2 ¾” 000 buckshot shotshell (#F127 000) contains 8 pellets.

 

[Armored farmer]

Not everyone buys or carries a gun based solely on someone else's evaluation of how lethal it is on a human being.

 

[Sam1911]

Federal states the velocity of its four 000 buckshot load (#PD412 JGE 000) is 850 fps, and five 000 buckshot load (#PD413 JGE 000) is 755 fps.

Oh!

Wow. I'd missed that. Somehow I had the number 1,200 fps in my brain. 750-850 fps does color things a bit.


I quit carrying Winchester Silvertip .44 Specials when I measured their velocity at just under 800 fps. And those were 200 gr. JHPs.

 

[Sam1911]

Not everyone buys or carries a gun based solely on someone else's evaluation of how lethal it is on a human being.

Certainly not!

However, everyone who contributes to a discussion about how suitable a firearm is for self-defense probably should have wounding capacity/lethality very close to foremost on their mind.

 

[knot4reel]

From a strictly wound ballistics perspective:

A single 000 buckshot pellet (.36 caliber) possesses a surface area of 0.102 square inches. Four of them have a combined surface area of 0.41 square inches. Five have a combined surface area of 0.51 square inches.

Compare this to the surface area of bullets that expand to 1.8 to 2 times their unfired diameter:

• 9mm: 0.32 – 0.40 square inches
• .40 caliber: 0.41 – 0.50 square inches
• .45 caliber: 0.52 – 0.64 square inches

Shape is also a factor in the amount of tissue crushed by a penetrating projectile. The shape of an expanded JHP will crush a larger diameter hole in soft tissues than the smooth contour of an undeformed spherical buckshot pellet. The wound cavity produced by a single, hardened lead and plated 000 buckshot pellet (.36 caliber) is comparable to a single 9mm (.355 caliber) roundnose FMJ bullet. Also keep in mind that most JHP handgun bullets recovered from bodies reveal expansion performance very similar to the same bullets recovered from ordnance gelatin covered by four layers of heavy denim cloth, usually 1.6 times unfired diameter.

Federal states the velocity of its four 000 buckshot load (#PD412 JGE 000) is 850 fps, and five 000 buckshot load (#PD413 JGE 000) is 755 fps. These two loads were developed specifically for the Judge revolver and the velocities claimed are velocities achieved when fired from a Judge revolver. (These two .410 loads are the only loads I recommend for defense in any .410 firearm.)

The weight of a single 000 pellet is 70 grains, therefore four 000 buckshot pellets weigh a combined 280 grains and five weigh 350 grains combined.

For additional comparison Federal’s 12 gauge 2 ¾” 000 buckshot shotshell (#F127 000) contains 8 pellets.

Thanks for your time in researching this.

 

[scaatylobo]

Reading almost all the posts,I have to ask if most actually read the OP's question.

I do believe it was about BIRD SHOT,not any buckshot.

IF that is the case,why are so many talking about a item that has NOTHING TO DO with the OP's question ??.

We all do what we want,and that is why and how we still call it a "free country" [ might not last forever ].

Your " free " to have the coroner look at your body and say " good try ".

Yes,it was a stolen line that I truly LOVED.

 

[Sam1911]

Reading almost all the posts,I have to ask if most actually read the OP's question.

I do believe it was about BIRD SHOT,not any buckshot.

Oh? I don't see where he mentioned any specific kind of shot.

I got a pile of gun mags on my coffee table with several articles about shotguns vs carbine vs handguns for home defense. I always read these articles and wonder why they don't mention a .410 shotshell revolver like the Judge or the Governor. We in California can't have them, but I'm just wondering, do they make sense for home defense?

 

[Theohazard]

a subject that the mods here tend to know a lot about.

Are they the formost and final authority on everything gun related. And if it comes from the mouth of a "MOD" is it to be etched in stone.

That's not what I said. You apparently have an issue with making straw man arguments.

You accused the mods here of piling on against you because they're mods. I argue that they're not acting as mods, they're simply acting as two people who know a lot about guns. You obviously have a need to distort and misrepresent other people's arguments in order to bolster your own.

Boy. they have been waiting for this one. BYE everybody.

Well, that's pretty childish...

 

[knot4reel]

Looks like this thread is getting pretty or petty off subject.

 

[knot4reel]

I argue that they're not acting as mods

Words and statements can be twisted and inserted anywhere as needed huh.

 

[Robert]

Oh enough