Accidental discharge 1911.....Help...Killed the stuffed bear on the bed.

[awfulkanawful]

Im sure Im going to catch hell , but Im coming here to clarify a safety issue on my new 1911 Ruger. Im very familiar with double/single action pistols with decockers.....never a problem....ever. But I just bought my very first SR1911 and cocked and locked just plain bothered me. Also carrying a unchambered , uncocked weapon just didnt seem right either.......so........I decided the best for me was to put the hammer down on a chambered round , so when needed all I had to do was cock aim and fire. Well......after practicing alot , and still not really feeling great about it my finger and thumb slipped !!! Long story short hole in bed , dead stuffed teddy bear , and fresh spackle on the wall. I feel so bad , just terrible.I want to hear others opinions on *** gives . Im very safety conscious , just maybe too careful and uncomfortable with a 1911's function...........Help.:banghead: Have others had similar reservations about cocked and locked ,and if so how did you get over it or what decision did you eventually come to ? Im beginning to think maybe cocked and locked would actually be much safer as lowering the hammer on a chambered round just may be asking for trouble at some point even if its been done millions of times ? Am I right ?

 

[Sam1911]

Glad you weren't hurt.

While the "Condition 2" carry mode you were trying to employ is relatively safe (once the hammer is lowered), putting the gun into that mode by lowering the hammer does carry exactly the risk you discovered.

So I guess you have to ask yourself which you are less comfortable with, carrying cocked-and-locked, or having to re-spackle walls. (Er...and other potential negative outcomes which might be worse...)

Then maybe ask yourself how fast you think you could employ a pistol you have to thumb-cock, vs. just swiping off the safety, and whether you think it is possible you could have another accidental discharge while cocking it, especially in a hurry, with sweaty hands, under pressure, etc.

There are some good reasons why most folks who carry a 1911 do so cocked-and-locked.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Research the 1911 platform more. Understand its design features.

I think you'll reach the conclusion most of us have -- condition one (cocked 'n locked) is the safest carry method. Perfectly safe, even though it feels weird coming from the world of (what Cooper used to call) crunchentickers.

 

[dprice3844444]

exactly the reason i don't carry a 1911 or use one for self defense in the house.

 

[holdencm9]

Wait...you were practicing drawing with a loaded chamber? That is your first mistake.

Practicing drawing and COCKING....that is your second mistake.

There's a reason people highly discourage decocking a gun with your thumb. It requires you to put your finger on the trigger (violates one of the rules right there) and your thumb can slip off and you have your result to show for it. You are just lucky you didn't hit anything REAL valuable.

Do not be afraid to carry cocked and locked. The 1911 is meant to be carried that way, and unless you have a faulty safety lever, it will not disengage on its own. And even if it DID disengage the safety, you still have the grip safety to prevent a discharge while it is in your holster. When you draw your finger should be off the trigger anyway, ready to go.

Not trying to berate you. I am lucky enough to not have a ND yet (knock on wood). Just learn from your mistakes as well as the mistakes of others. Don't worry, there are plenty of other negligent discharge stories on THR.

 

[Sam1911]

The 1911 is meant to be carried that way

Actually, as 1911Tuner and others have patiently pointed out to me before, no, the 1911 was not actually designed to be carried "Condition 1." In fact, the original version didn't even have a thumb safety.

Coming hot on the heels of the single-action revolver days, thumb-cocking was an acceptable method back in the day, and the inertial firing pin design meant that hammer down on a loaded chamber was perfectly safe.

However, many practitioners soon discovered the benefits of "cocked and locked" carry, and that is now the far and away preferred method.

 

[Arp32]

If you're worried about condition 1, try carrying it cocked & locked unloaded and on an empty chamber for a while just to satisfy yourself that it won't actually go off by itself.

Glad you're ok.

 

[awfulkanawful]

Accidental disharge....

I have 3 Stoger cougar 9mm pistols stashed in the house for home defense. Im very very familiar and comfortable with those , just like second nature. NO....I wasnt practising drawing , just lowering the hammer. My main concern about the 1911 before I even bought one was the safty flips down.....that always concerned me if needed in a hurry. All my others UP is on ! My thumb and finger just slipped while lowering the hammer to put the gun back in my holster , I guess I was nervous....too nervous. I practiced with it unloaded at least 200 times right before. I learned on a S&W 4006 and its my car gun. Also have various Berettas that are also decocker DA/SA that come to me like second nature. I only bought this gun because being an AZ native , Ruger made in AZ , and our Az state centenial is this year....nostalgia. I had reservations because I had become so familiar with decockers that a change worried me.......and now right off the bat Ive blew it. I would like to say the lesson learned for me was to go with my initial gut instinct and PASS on a 1911 , only because it initially made me unconfortable because cocked and locked seemed ominous to me , and because I was breaking my pattern of leaned safety/comfort , for something shiny and new. No pun to the 1911........It was my initial fear of its operation that caused me to be very nervous of it........I will keep it , but Im not going to EVER carry it. I think it just became my Camping van gun stashed in a permanent mounted holster behind the bed......in condition 3 as you call it.

 

[holdencm9]

Do not be afraid to carry cocked and locked. The 1911 is meant to be carried that way

Actually, as 1911Tuner and others have patiently pointed out to me before, no, the 1911 was not actually designed to be carried "Condition 1." In fact, the original version didn't even have a thumb safety.

Thanks for that Sam. I never knew that. However, history lesson aside, I could still (and will, dangit!) argue that the 1911 is "meant" to be carried condition 1, nowadays, in its current form, with current, up-to-date design, and experts' carry philosophy and methods.

I.e. the way something was initially designed 100 years ago, and common practice today, differ.

 

[2wheels]

Very glad no one was hurt!

That's exactly why I hate decocking a 1911 on a live round. It can be done safely, but screwing up means a negligent discharge.

As others have pointed out, for several reasons most of us 1911 guys prefer to carry cocked and locked. If you're concerned about forgetting to flip off the safety when you need to use it, you need to practice.

 

[BHP FAN]

buy a Glock.

 

[awfulkanawful]

BHP fan

NO THANKS ! I ruled out Glocks a long time ago.......Im even more uncomfortable with them than a 1911......Im sticking with what I know. If it doesnt have a cylinder , or a decocker and a hammer.......I DONT WANT IT !

 

[Old Shooter]

If you are comfortable with the decocker pistol operation and already have several examples at home, and concidering your experience with the 1911 pattern, I vote to sell the 1911 and stick with what you are comfortable with.

Your muscle memory is set for the decocker and sooner or later you will pull the 1911 out to try it again,mayby even at the range instead of the living room, and a similiar incident may happen and mayby not just able to be fixed with some spackling.

 

[awfulkanawful]

old shooter...thanks

That was my initial mistake......not trusting my gut instinct and initial intimidation that something different could cause a problem. My friends just kept touting a "bad Boy" .45 1911 as the ticket to have........BS. Gut instinct said NO ! Thank god I was aware and had it happen at home while practising in a safe area , instead of at the range or somewhere else out of the clear blue. I DO wish I had learned on a 1911 platform though , things would probably different in what I carry/use. Habits are very hard to break.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Habits are very hard to break.

Yep. More than that, though, we're talking about comfort level with the basic design of the pistol. It's been seeing a lot of use for over 100 years so there's quite a bit of collective knowledge on the platform you can access.

I'm a 1911 guy generally, and much prefer it to the alternatives I've tried (though the XDM has some serious potential.) If you're not comfortable with the idea of condition one carry, then at best the 1911 will be a range toy for you.

There's no "best" here; there's just what works best for you, in your hands, and in your particular situation. I'd argue that a 1911 in condition one is safer than a revolver or a Glock, but if your gut is screaming "oh my GOD this thing is UNSAFE" then don't carry it.

Or, try again in 10 years. You could also take it to Gunsite 250 or the equivalent and learn to trust it. Of course, you could take your favored weapon instead and work on gun skills rather than basic trust issues.

 

[*NOVA*]

I've had one ND, so I feel your pain.

Except for the gun I use for home defense, no other weapon is loded in the house (and yes of course I always treat every gun as if it is loaded) You shot the bed and a teddy bear. Was there any direction in the room that the gun could have been pointed that would cause less damage? I'm just saying - you called your bedroom a safe area to practice with a loaded gun. I'm thinking at the range with gun pointed downrange might be safer?

I sold a gun because I wanted to use it as my EDC but did not feel safe carrying condition 1. Sure miss that CZ 75 Compact, but I'll get a decocker version one day.
Condition 2 for that type of gun just makes sense to me. For a 1911 - I think if you choose to use that as your EDC, it seems the redundant safeties built in should be safe to carry condition 1. Agreed, habits are hard to break, but part of situational awareness, especially when you are carrying, is having the mental image of dis-engaging the safety.

Glad no one was hurt.

 

[awfulkanawful]

NOVA

I had actually just came from the range. A couple Chip McCormic mags had arrived in the mail and I was swapping them out for the factory ones (reloading them) when it happened. ALL my firearms are loaded in the house . There are no children EVER here , and my GF is firearms safety trained. One gun just doesnt do it for me......multiple throughout the house area acessible.(you never know when the "bad man" might arrive , and I dont body carry at home.
By saying I was in a safe area , what I should have said was pointed in a safe direction towards a wall outside the back. I was dry practicing , then loaded and was lowering the hammer for the final time when it slipped between my thumb and finger.....BANG.
One more thing......just having one gun in the house isnt enough ! I was robbed 2 years ago in a vicious scenario and it was horrifying.....it lasted 15 minutes and happened so fast initially that even if I was carrying , there was NO time to react. Had I placed several firearms in my house as they are now , the ending would have been quite different than the terror we experienced. Yea.....nobody died the night we were robbed , but the nightmares will last forever. Too many people have a false sense of security just because they carry one gun , they feel protected , yet reality dictates far differently........it happens so fast !

 

[rcmodel]

when it slipped between my thumb and finger

Theres your problem right there!

Lower it by placing your whole thumb over the hammer spur and let it down slowly.

Even if it starts to slip, the pressure of your thumb on top of the spur will slow it down enough to keep it from firing.

I have been decocking 1911's one-handed that way for about 50 years and never had one go off negligently yet.

If you are especially paranoid or clumsy?
Stick your left hand finger between the hammer & slide until it's almost all the way down.
Again, even if it slips out from under your whole thumb, which it really can't, it won't go off.

rc

 

[gspn]

Im not trying to flame you...but why were you practicing this with a round in the chamber?

You could learn the same thing with no round in the chamber...with a lot less risk.

 

[Just One Shot]

Glad no one was hurt!

IMO cocked and locked is the only way to carry a 1911. I like the 1911 and don't have any concern carrying in condition 1. I'm actually wearing my S&W 1911 PD in a modified belly band as I type.

Just a side note, in the owners manual of my old Kimber Pro Carry II it warned against riding the hammer down (even on an empty chamber) because, as they claim, it's possible to damage the sear when doing so. First time I had seen this but it didn't really matter to me as I always dry fire my handguns after unloading them anyway.

If you like the platform then practice with it until you feel comfortable carry it in condition 1, if you don't then, as it's already been stated, go with what you know.

Thanks for posting, we can all use the occasional reminder to handle our firearms safely. Chalk this up to a lesson learned and be safe brother!

 

[rcmodel]

If the trigger is pulled and held back to lower the hammer, it won't damage the sear.

If it isn't released as soon as the hammer is released?

Some 1911 hammers will stop on the intercept notch and others will hit the "speed bump" on the hammer and slow it down enough to prevent it firing.

In either case, it will not damage the sear, and it won't go off.

rc

 

[Fishslayer]

I'd be a little worried about the slide taking my thumb off if the hammer slipped while decocking...

 

[awfulkanawful]

gspn...read

I wasnt practising lowering the hammer on a live round chambered. It was after I loaded a replacement mag and lowered the hammer the final time i discharged......read the whole post.....#8

 

[Fishslayer]

Wait a minute...

...you keep a stuffed bear on your bed?

 

[awfulkanawful]

Fishslayer....lol

Come on you guys....lol. Yes...there is a big stuffed bear on the bed in one of our extra rooms. I actually threaten to use it for target practice on occasion , but my GF gave me that real nasty look....
now hes got a hole where his "junk" should be.....and GF is NOT happy!