The Bushmaster
Member
Makes your day...Doesn't it Woody...
Accidental discharge?
- Thread starter pablo45
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I think that reinforces what a lot of us have been saying - NDs can and do happen to anyone. No one is 100% immune to them. You can be 99.99999% immune to them and still have a bad moment and shoot the garage floor. This website, as you pointed out, is full of people who are experienced shooters - but IMO, that makes it MORE likely that we've had NDs.
Let's say a person's chance of an ND is 1 per 100,000 shots fired. A person who only shoots once a year is unlikely to have an ND in his lifetime. But a person who shoots 10,000 rounds of rimfire and 5,000 of centerfire a year (probably common among THR members) will have one, on average, every 7 years.
The Bushmaster
Member
Every 7 years?? God I hope not!!! I haven't had on in 40 years or more. What you are saying is that I'm due for a bunch to catch up...NO NO NO!!!
...NO NO NO!!!twodawgs
Member
I haven't read all the replies yet but was wondering if anybody mentioned the warning billboard on Ruger Barrels or the major recalls from outfits like Remington for AD's on safety release.
Don't need to ask or wonder, I had a BHP that went full auto. The sear simply decided to puke and it was off to the races. That's an axciting event if one survives.
Don't need to ask or wonder, I had a BHP that went full auto. The sear simply decided to puke and it was off to the races. That's an axciting event if one survives.
The Bushmaster
Member
OUCH!! Yup...And I bet you used to have four dawgs...
ninja45
Member
I had ND one night many moons ago as I decided to have a Condition 2 Beretta S70 .22 pistol. My thumb slipped as I was holding on the hammer as I squeeze the trigger. Luckily, I obeyed Rule #3, "Do not point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy." I really hated that bedroom floor!
Stevie-Ray
Member
My ND was an unintentional double-tap into a 7 yard target while I was still getting used to my new Kimber UCDP's trigger. Scary even then.
MCgunner
Member
Now, imagine you've drawn that gun and are getting ready IN CASE you have to shoot, and you shoot it anyway and the BG turns out to be unarmed. Imagine how impossible that light SA trigger is to control when you're pumped with adrenalin.
That's why I don't like to carry anything single action condition one. I prefer DA guns for defense.
Mad Magyar
Member
What????
Math is good, but the premise: faulty....Don't go by the poll or data on this or any forum....This & other forums represents a small minority of gun owners in this country. Many join because they have problems with their firearm that might be conducive to such ND's and reliability factors. You are correct in one assumption: if you go by the poll conducted, IIRC, Guns & Ammo a year ago; vast majority do little, if any, shooting now-a-days...
Comparing ND's to the likelihood of auto accidents suggested earlier is not sound. We alone control the variables when we have gun in hand, the auto scenario involves the other driver which is beyond our control....
^^^fine then, restrict the analogy to accidents caused by the driver (there are millions) and the analogy is still valid.
I'm not sure why you think my premise is faulty. 1 ND per 100,000 rounds is a 99.999% safety rate. 1 ND per million rounds is 99.9999% safety. I think you would agree that it is impossible to 100% guarantee a person will never have an ND. Even if you go to one ND per million rounds fired, that's 1 every 70 years, or roughly 1 per lifetime of shooting. And I'd bet money the national rate of unintended discharge is higher than 1 per million rounds fired.
I'm not sure why you think my premise is faulty. 1 ND per 100,000 rounds is a 99.999% safety rate. 1 ND per million rounds is 99.9999% safety. I think you would agree that it is impossible to 100% guarantee a person will never have an ND. Even if you go to one ND per million rounds fired, that's 1 every 70 years, or roughly 1 per lifetime of shooting. And I'd bet money the national rate of unintended discharge is higher than 1 per million rounds fired.
easyg
Member
Maximum1:
I would like to know exactly where you get you info on "LEGAL DEFINITIONS".
If I recall correctly, only military personnel can be legally charged with "negligent or accidental discharge", not civilians.
Please post a link that backs up this claim.
I would like to know exactly where you get you info on "LEGAL DEFINITIONS".
If I recall correctly, only military personnel can be legally charged with "negligent or accidental discharge", not civilians.
All you have to do is a little research on the topic (GOOGLE) and you'll find THOUSANDS of examples (and laws on the books) which back up my statement regarding "negligent discharge of a firearm. Here's just an infinitesimal sampling;
“two counts of reckless discharge of a dangerous weapon”
“Shooting a rifle through your neighbors' homes, even if accidentally, can get you charged.”
Here’s a “sampling” of State Law(s) (this one from Connecticut) which have laws on the books that call for any citizen who discharges a firearm reckless will be charged with “charged with reckless endangerment, breach of peace, and unlawful discharge of a firearm.” Duh!
“Ramirez, 28, has been charged with negligent discharge of a firearm”
“HUNTER CHARGED ... Searles is charged with negligent use of and careless discharge of a firearm”
“charged with assault with a deadly weapon and negligent discharge of a firearm”
In California (like in MANY States), there ARE specifics laws on the books which police and aggressive PROCUCUTORS use to charge citizens with negligent discharge of a firearm… “charged with 246.3 PC Negligent discharge of a firearm." person charged with246.3 PC "...was arrested and charged with 246.3 PC Negligent discharge of a firearm”
Just for the heck of it…This comes from a Police blog about the topic…Opinion yes, but here’s how police view it and think about the term, “accidental discharge”
“That term (accidental discharge) needs to go away. There’s no such thing as an “accidental discharge.” Period! The four safety rules of weapons handling are there for a reason. You are negligent in your actions if you fail to safely maintain your weapon and should be charged accordingly.
BTW, I am not stating nor do I claim 100% one will be charged with negligent discharge of a firearm...But reality in today's litigious world you're very like to be charged with that by an aggressive prosecutor than simply having it classified as a "accidental discharge”. That’s Criminal Law…The civil side of the law leaves you very venerable financially if someone files a suit against you for “negligent discharge of a firearm”.
So go ahead and ignore the facts…I for one, realize how serious the offense is.
BTW, where's your DATA which backs up your claim?
.
“two counts of reckless discharge of a dangerous weapon”
“Shooting a rifle through your neighbors' homes, even if accidentally, can get you charged.”
Here’s a “sampling” of State Law(s) (this one from Connecticut) which have laws on the books that call for any citizen who discharges a firearm reckless will be charged with “charged with reckless endangerment, breach of peace, and unlawful discharge of a firearm.” Duh!
“Ramirez, 28, has been charged with negligent discharge of a firearm”
“HUNTER CHARGED ... Searles is charged with negligent use of and careless discharge of a firearm”
“charged with assault with a deadly weapon and negligent discharge of a firearm”
In California (like in MANY States), there ARE specifics laws on the books which police and aggressive PROCUCUTORS use to charge citizens with negligent discharge of a firearm… “charged with 246.3 PC Negligent discharge of a firearm." person charged with246.3 PC "...was arrested and charged with 246.3 PC Negligent discharge of a firearm”
Just for the heck of it…This comes from a Police blog about the topic…Opinion yes, but here’s how police view it and think about the term, “accidental discharge”
“That term (accidental discharge) needs to go away. There’s no such thing as an “accidental discharge.” Period! The four safety rules of weapons handling are there for a reason. You are negligent in your actions if you fail to safely maintain your weapon and should be charged accordingly.
BTW, I am not stating nor do I claim 100% one will be charged with negligent discharge of a firearm...But reality in today's litigious world you're very like to be charged with that by an aggressive prosecutor than simply having it classified as a "accidental discharge”. That’s Criminal Law…The civil side of the law leaves you very venerable financially if someone files a suit against you for “negligent discharge of a firearm”.
So go ahead and ignore the facts…I for one, realize how serious the offense is.
BTW, where's your DATA which backs up your claim?
.
"Not exactly. An accidental discharge properly refers to a mechanical failure of a weapon or some other unintended discharge not caused by human negligence."
Nice attempt at hijacking I don't believe for one minute those who replied YES this poll were as a result of mechnical rather than human. I would venture a guess mechnical failure are a minuscule number and rare compared to human inducted discharges so please let's try to stay on topic.
Nice attempt at hijacking I don't believe for one minute those who replied YES this poll were as a result of mechnical rather than human. I would venture a guess mechnical failure are a minuscule number and rare compared to human inducted discharges so please let's try to stay on topic.
"Not exactly. An accidental discharge properly refers to a mechanical failure of a weapon or some other unintended discharge not caused by human negligence."
Nice attempt at hijacking but frankly I don't believe for one minute those whom replied YES to this poll were as a result of mechnical rather than human. I would venture a guess mechnical failures are a minuscule number and rare compared to human inducted discharges so please let's try to stay on topic.
Nice attempt at hijacking but frankly I don't believe for one minute those whom replied YES to this poll were as a result of mechnical rather than human. I would venture a guess mechnical failures are a minuscule number and rare compared to human inducted discharges so please let's try to stay on topic.
easyg
Member
I think you could only be charged if you endangered someone with the accidental discharge.
If you're in your own basement and you accidentally shot the floor, I don't see that you have broken any laws.
If you're in your own basement and you accidentally shot the floor, I don't see that you have broken any laws.
PhrankKastle
Member
I just had my AD about 2 1/2 months ago, I had purchased a S&W M&P 9mm Compact and went to put it thru its paces, the first 12 rd Mag went well and as I put in the fresh mag I released the slide and about crapped myself when the gun discharged and I made a nice hole in the ground about 2 feet in front of me. I could not get the pistol to repeat this but it reaffirmed my dislike for striker weapons and I will stick with my Sig 239 for my everyday carry needs.
1955, buttloading Winchester 22 while resting barrel on foot. Kept it out of the snow that way. Finished loading, pheasant flew up about 3 feet away and I shot my foot. Still have little blue spot between my toes. Yes, it did get infected. Surprised that teen has made it to just about 70.
The Annoyed Man
Member
I had one ND back in 1996. I had recently bought my S&W Model 29 about 2 weeks prior. I remembered that I had put it away, locked in a case, but still loaded. So I got it out, opened the cylinder, and dumped the rounds into my hand. I looked at the rounds and said to myself "yeah, that looks like six." I was holding the the pistol vertically, pointed at the ceiling, in my left hand, near my left ear, and started cocking the hammer and feeling the single action let off. I did it 2 or 3 times, and then the world went silent.
I was deaf in the left ear for 2 weeks, and the right ear for a few hours. Ever since then, I always visually inspect all chambers, and then I do it again to be sure, and then I stick my pinky finger in there just to be sure. You can NEVER be too careful.
The round was a 240 gr JHP. It hit the plaster ceiling right next to the wall. It must have hit a joist or some other beam in the attic, because I was unable to find and recover it, and I inspected the roof thoroughly for holes. There were none. This was an old house with old style lathe and plaster walls and ceilings instead of drywall.
I'm just very greatful that nobody got hurt, and I learned my lesson for certain. That still stands as the dumbest thing I ever did.
I was deaf in the left ear for 2 weeks, and the right ear for a few hours. Ever since then, I always visually inspect all chambers, and then I do it again to be sure, and then I stick my pinky finger in there just to be sure. You can NEVER be too careful.
The round was a 240 gr JHP. It hit the plaster ceiling right next to the wall. It must have hit a joist or some other beam in the attic, because I was unable to find and recover it, and I inspected the roof thoroughly for holes. There were none. This was an old house with old style lathe and plaster walls and ceilings instead of drywall.
I'm just very greatful that nobody got hurt, and I learned my lesson for certain. That still stands as the dumbest thing I ever did.
totally negligent
cleared a gun (I thought) by racking to eject the chambered round . . .
didn't wonder why the slide didn't lock open (if there were either no mag or a loaded mag, it wouldn't lock open) . . .
didn't use the decocker or check the chamber . . . bang
cleared a gun (I thought) by racking to eject the chambered round . . .
didn't wonder why the slide didn't lock open (if there were either no mag or a loaded mag, it wouldn't lock open) . . .
didn't use the decocker or check the chamber . . . bang
Gator
Member
Fortunately mine was with an M60 loaded with blanks...not that it made the Sgt. go any easier on me
ive always said, never trust a mechanic that has all of his finger tips intact, never trust a carpenter without a black fingernail, and never trust a chef that doesnt have a knife scar on his finger... because those people have never learned what not to do.... on the same token, those same people with multiple wounds didnt learn the first time...
i had a ND once and it scared me to death... was playing in my cousins room one day and i saw his old howdy doody gun belt... next thing i knew, bang, the cap gun went off... the whole family runs in scared... i was but about 6 or 7 and never have had anything like that again...
i always double check the action of my weapons after im done firing them, and ill even intentionally dry-fire down range just to be extra safe... id rather replace a firing pin than my foot... i count my shots carefully, and know in detail exactly how many rounds each weapon will hold... also, i make sure that every casing is ejected properly... my most common shooter is an old .22 that doesnt like to spit out every empty shell so ive learned to be extra careful...
in addition, ive still got this uncanny feeling that if i were to ever point a gun at someone that i didnt want to kill, that a 6'2" big black USMC master sergeant would hop out from behind a tree and stomp my ass into the ground... its amazing what getting weapons training from someone like that will do to your prolonged psyche
i had a ND once and it scared me to death... was playing in my cousins room one day and i saw his old howdy doody gun belt... next thing i knew, bang, the cap gun went off... the whole family runs in scared... i was but about 6 or 7 and never have had anything like that again...
i always double check the action of my weapons after im done firing them, and ill even intentionally dry-fire down range just to be extra safe... id rather replace a firing pin than my foot... i count my shots carefully, and know in detail exactly how many rounds each weapon will hold... also, i make sure that every casing is ejected properly... my most common shooter is an old .22 that doesnt like to spit out every empty shell so ive learned to be extra careful...
in addition, ive still got this uncanny feeling that if i were to ever point a gun at someone that i didnt want to kill, that a 6'2" big black USMC master sergeant would hop out from behind a tree and stomp my ass into the ground... its amazing what getting weapons training from someone like that will do to your prolonged psyche
possum
Member
no i have not.
I've been shooting for 10 years. I shoot pretty often and handle guns daily. I carry daily also and that weapon is always with a full magazine and round chambered. I haven't had any accidental, or whatever you want to call them, shots fired and I don't intend for that to happen, ever. No discharges due to mechanical problems either, but that's a different cup of tea.
I don't buy the thinking that this is inevitable and will happen to everyone. If it does happen with me, it'll be 100% my fault and not a result of some cosmic fate.
I don't buy the thinking that this is inevitable and will happen to everyone. If it does happen with me, it'll be 100% my fault and not a result of some cosmic fate.
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