Budsgunshop.com shipping restrictions

[dalepres]

BudsGunShop: Which brings up a whole other issue for consideration. As you can imagine, with our low prices, there are many FFL dealers who are not at all happy with us shipping firearms into their state, much less their store. One way some FFL dealers have found to get between us and our customers satisfaction is to claim there is something deficient with the order....no fired shell casing, magazines "missing", scratches on new guns, etc. The one I like the best, just because it is so easy to disprove....is that the gun "is not there yet". We ship all our firearms Signature Required....so we know when the guns are delivered...and sometimes we have to remind the dealers of that.

I don't blame them for being concerned about Bud's low prices. When we begin to use our local FFLs only for paperwork for our online purchases we risk not having local FFLs to ask to do that paperwork. Then we can't buy online or locally. I've talked to the local dealer about the impact of online orders. It is amazing how many people buy a $500 dollar gun online because it is $20 cheaper than the local shop.

I am glad that places like Bud's exist. I like being able to shop online. Though I haven't bought from Bud's yet, I did buy one online gun for delivery at a local shop - the only local shop. Buying online is a great way to let one dealer's excess inventory fill a gap in your local dealer's inventory. Just try to shop locally first.

I am going in to order another gun today - a hard to find model. In this case, I may have to do the purchase online for delivery through the local shop; and that's when I think it is appropriate to do so. If my dealer can't get the gun from their distributors, I am prepared to order the gun from the only online shop that I found with the gun in inventory. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and to ask of my local shop. Bud's, by the way, doesn't have this model in stock and hasn't for a while. I did consider them as my backup route but had to settle on another backup instead.

If the local shop can get it, I will probably pay $50 more for a $900 list price gun from them than I would pay online. The online price is actually closer to a hundred less but I have to pay shipping and pay the local shop for doing the paperwork - charges I don't have to pay at the local dealer. The result is about a 6% price difference to buy locally from which my dealer has to pay rent, insurance, employees, utilities, and inventory costs in order to keep the doors open - so I can order guns online and ask them to do the paperwork for $25.00.

People, consider buying your guns locally first. Support the local shop. If they can't get what you want then absolutely go to Bud's or other shops like them.

By the way, I do not own or work for a gun shop. I don't know anyone who does own or work for a gunshop except by face when I stand at the counter of the local shop. I don't even know their names there - that's my fault, not their's. All I would have to do is stick my hand out to know them. The point is that my view on this is not a self supporting view except to hope great success for my local shop so they will be there when I want to buy a gun.

 

[FCFC]

It is amazing how many people buy a $500 dollar gun online because it is $20 cheaper than the local shop....

If the local shop can get it, I will probably pay $50 more for a $900 list price gun from them than I would pay online. The online price is actually closer to a hundred less but I have to pay shipping and pay the local shop for doing the paperwork - charges I don't have to pay at the local dealer. The result is about a 6% price difference to buy locally from which my dealer has to pay rent, insurance, employees, utilities, and inventory costs in order to keep the doors open - so I can order guns online and ask them to do the paperwork for $25.00

I think most people here would agree that buying online to save a net $20 is pushing it. I doubt it happens much.

You don't say for sure whether you'd pay $50 net more for a local stocked $650 to $850 gun ($900 list), but I know I wouldn't. $50 on a, say, $700 gun is over 7% of the purchase price. For what? An inefficient (for my particular transaction only) business positioning? Maybe the local guy can get with it and make his operation more efficient and responsive to the marketplace...

As far as the local businessman having to pay normal expenses "to keep the doors open," that's just a fact of business life. I'm sure he doesn't want welfare payments for his business operation. At least he shouldn't.

Obviously, another common situation is purchasing used guns from sellers across the country. How is it that the local gun seller needs to get in on deals such as that? He knows nothing of the gun, the seller, and may never have anything in his inventory to compete with the purchase.

Let's face it, $25 for the FFL transfer is a reasonable market price. Some FFLs charge more. I once bought two revolvers (~$380 each) and had them shipped to the only FFL I knew (where I had bought a couple of guns before). Their price was $75 (2@$35 plus the NICS). That's a pretty high hourly rate if one were to break it down.

Let the locals compete as best they can. They can do a fine job when they really put their minds to it. Actually, they have some competitive advantages that most online sellers cannot match.

I have bought more guns from local FFL's stocks than I've purchased online. But I'll buy them from wherever I wish and on the economic basis that makes sense to me. I don't think that I owe any local shop help in paying his payroll or his light bill. That's his responsibility to do that, not mine.

OTOH, for people who want to "support" their local gun shop based on a rationale as you describe, or a similar one, more power to them.

 

[dalepres]

I think most people here would agree that buying online to save a net $20 is pushing it. I doubt it happens much.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I don't have stats, that's for sure. I just know that my local dealer always prices guns I have bought within pretty close prices of online after adding in shipping and paperwork charges to the online buy. That means the local shop can be 70 to 80 dollars more and still be within 20 of online.

You don't say for sure whether you'd pay $50 net more for a local stocked $650 to $850 gun ($900 list), but I know I wouldn't. $50 on a, say, $700 gun is over 7% of the purchase price. For what? An inefficient (for my particular transaction only) business positioning?

Well, I didn't get to find out today if I'd pay $50 more. I ordered my gun and they were $18 more than the one place that had them online. And that was before shipping and paperwork charges that would have been added to the online price.

Maybe the local guy can get with it and make his operation more efficient and responsive to the marketplace...

I live in rural Oklahoma. There's not much chance that my local shop can model their operations after the big guys. And if they did, then what? Would they still do FFL transfers? I have been to Academy Sports in Tulsa. They don't do FFL transfers. There's not room for every little shop to become a Bud's so the ultimate risk of online gun buying is that there may only be one or two FFLs in a state like Oklahoma that are big enough to survive it and will also do FFL transfers. If the local shop doesn't adapt to the Internet age then what? I'd sure hate to have to drive 200 miles to Oklahoma City every time I wanted to buy a gun.

Now, if Bud's can get a Marlin 1894C - which my dealer cannot, I'll be all for ordering from Bud's.

 

[borntwice]

I like the idea of supporting a local gun shop owner whom I have relationship with. He will be there for the life of my firearms purchase, and he can give me advice and help.

If I can't get a product through a local dealer, then an online gun dealer is a good option, for me.

 

[jdc1244]

Gun shops in Florida – my part of Florida, anyway – are very problematic. Pricing is unpredictable and capricious, selection is spotty, and the ‘dealers’ not willing to deal. Most, frankly, are glorified pawnshops.

There is one shop in the area that has an excellent selection but everything goes for list and not a penny less. Even used guns are outrageous: M44s for $200.

When I buy online I get exactly what I want without any grief from the dealer and I pay sometimes more than $100 below list price.

 

[dalepres]

Ok, I know we're going to get in trouble for threadjacking pretty soon here, but I have to ask, if you're buying online without grief from the dealer and for 100 less than the dealer's price, who's doing the paperwork? The same dealer who wouldn't discount the gun to get the sale is completely agreeable to doing the paperwork for pocketchange?

 

[Curiousity]

Hello Rex

You are welcome for letting you know about the Saigas and how legal they are in California and how hot they are. Now if you really wanna sell out at an amazing speed, sell Saiga 12's you have been warned! if Saigas are hot wait till you carry Saiga 12's from RAA....

Now the question is, and the only question is?

Do i win somthing for helping you find this really Hot seller? or get a nice little discount on my next purchase



*** Oh and do stay and learn from us in this internet age... it is very important to get direct feedback from your customers and suggestions, we only wanna help


And do join Calguns.net thats where all the Californians are at...

 

[budsgunshop.com]

Curiosity

The only problem I have with Saiga....nobody seems to have them in stock. The few we had sold out in less than a day....and we have not been able to find anyone who has more than 1/2 of each model.

As for the lead and your discount ?.....let me know what you are looking to buy.....some items have wiggle room, some don't. I'll do what I can for you.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

There are a few local gun shops I do business with--most I won't.

I get really tired of the idiocy I hear behind the counters, and especially tired of the BS that gets spouted to novice buyers. . . especially women. As someone else aptly pointed out, half the time I feel like I'm in a low-rent pawn shop.

Those shops that I do like, I like them because they're professionals. They know their products. They know their consumer base. They'll let you handle the weapons. They will not BS you. Sometimes they'll deal when they can, but if they can't--you know they're being honest with you.

Those dealers get my money. Those dealers find me what I'm looking for. When they can't, they also do not have a problem being the FFL transfer holder when I have to purchase from out of state.

There is a reason why online businesses grow and prosper, and economics is only a part of that reason.

Jeff

 

[budsgunshop.com]

Please do keep us in the loop. What (if anything) did Bud have to say about the situation when you last talked to him? Did he seem receptive, or? Because as stated earlier, we'd be more than happy to help him (and you) out with any information he may need to better inform himself on the state of things here in MD.

Bud obviously wants to pursue every prospective customer base out there...including MD. However, the risk (or perceived risk) has to be weighed against the prospective gain(= sales). I think the recent favorable decision up in DC is just another important step in the right direction....a direction that will hopefully result in us shipping guns to MD. We actually had a non-MD related business opportunity pop up back on the 20th which is causing us to work closely with our local ATF office. We will be communicating with them regularly over the next 30 days while we set this new business up.....so I thought it would be a good opportunity to get their reaction, response, input, etc....to the whole issue of shipping guns to MD. I think a positive response from them would go a long way towards calming Bud's (and my) concerns. I will keep you informed as we move forward.

 

[kingpin008]

I agree, the Heller decision is going to do a lot of good things, and most certainly a step in the right direction for gunnies.

Good luck talking with the ATF folks, hopefully they'll be able to calm some nerves, lol.

 

[mike_in_md]

From Budsgunshop.com No specific MD statute. My partner, Bud of Budsgunshop.com, had a friend lose his FFL due to shipping a firearm to MD. They did nothing wrong, and the transferring FFL dealer in MD did nothing wrong either....but the firearm ended up being used in a felony so both FFL's were lost.....legalities not the issue, more politics.

From Budsgunshop.com Bud obviously wants to pursue every prospective customer base out there...including MD. However, the risk (or perceived risk) has to be weighed against the prospective gain(= sales). I think the recent favorable decision up in DC is just another important step in the right direction....a direction that will hopefully result in us shipping guns to MD. We actually had a non-MD related business opportunity pop up back on the 20th which is causing us to work closely with our local ATF office. We will be communicating with them regularly over the next 30 days while we set this new business up.....so I thought it would be a good opportunity to get their reaction, response, input, etc....to the whole issue of shipping guns to MD. I think a positive response from them would go a long way towards calming Bud's (and my) concerns. I will keep you informed as we move forward.

For Gods sakes trying to get you guys to sell guns to Maryland is like pulling teeth!

Rex, I see your conversation with the ATF going like this:

Buds: If I don't break any laws, will you take away my FFL?

ATF: No

Buds: Why did you take away my friends FFL?

ATF: Because he broke the law.

 

[Bacardi151]

I have talked to Bud about the MD issues. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as yes or no. He still has concerns, and I am dong the necessary research to see if we can eliminate those concerns.

It would not be unprecedented.....all of NY state was on our "do not sell list" as recently as 2007. However, a single respective email from an upper NY state customer got the wheels rolling....and now we ship to all but NY city and surrounding counties.

I appreciate your patience, and your input.....it really helps me work through this sensitive issue.

Have patience...its their business...its their choice. They are not saying "NEVER IN MD".

 

[budsgunshop.com]

For Gods sakes trying to get you guys to sell guns to Maryland is like pulling teeth!
Rex, I see your conversation with the ATF going like this:
Buds: If I don't break any laws, will you take away my FFL?
ATF: No
Buds: Why did you take away my friends FFL?
ATF: Because he broke the law.

Ah yes....mike_n_md. I knew you user ID, and associated tone, sounded familiar.

I am confident that we will be shipping to MD one day soon. In all of the other states combined that we have shipped to since 2003 we have a 99% positive feedback rating (Gunbroker, Ebay, etc.) However there is always that 1% that we just can't seem to satisfy.....and I am quite sure there are some members of the "1% club" living in MD too.....but I'm ok with that.

 

[budsgunshop.com]

FIRST OFF....I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF THE MD RESIDENTS WHO CONTRIBUTED POSITIVELY AND PRODUCTIVELY TO THIS THREAD. WE LOOK FORWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU. TO EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEALERS AND OTHER MD FRIENDLY INTERNET SITES.....JUST NOT WWW.BUDSGUNSHOP.COM

WITH THAT SAID......MD WILL HAVE IT'S INDEPENDENCE DAY.......WWW.BUDSGUNSHOP.COM IS NOW SHIPPING TO MD !!!!!!!

No restrictions, other than those imposed by the laws of MD. Please be patient as we attempt to train our sales and processing staff in the particulars of doing business in the state of MD. We are going to err on the side of caution.....so expect delays on any orders of products that are not clearly listed as approved on http://www.mdsp.org/services/handgun.asp
Our IT dept is now working on enabling all MD shipping addresses. Until that can be accomplished, the shopping cart may not allow orders to be completed. However, we should have that resolved before we leave today for the long July 4th weekend.

We will make mistakes....but we will always be here and willing to make things right. Our sales staff of 4 (Derek, Gurney, Brandon, and JR) are on the phone constantly....very hard to get through to those guys. However, we do respond to emails and we will return your voice mails.....again, please be patient, I assure you we are doing our very best to accommodate everyone.....and everyone now includes MD.

 

[kingpin008]

AWESOME!!

Rex, THANK YOU for going to bat for us! And thank Bud as well, for understanding that he can do business here without having to worry about being visited by the ATF. (well, any more than he would otherwise. You know what I mean. )

Man, this is good stuff. Now, off to reconfigure my budget a little bit...

 

[mike_in_md]

Thanks Rex, that's excellent news! It's great that this was resolved without adding restrictions on Maryland other than the laws already imposed on us by MD.

Welcome back to Maryland. I hope that our state helps add to your sales base.

 

[chaim]

I came to this discussion late. Looks like I'll need to do some rewarding, Buds will be the first place I look for my next purchase. Hopefully I won't be the only one.

 

[kingpin008]

You and me both. As long as Hugh at Jessup Pawn is still doing cheap transfers, I'm going to be picking up a Bond Arms derringer from Bud's pretty soon.

 

[KevlarTester]

It's been a while since anyone has posted in this thread, I thought I'd check if Bud's has changed it's position on shipping to the surrounding counties of NYC.

In light of your shift in policy towards MD, I would hope that you will reconsider shipping to southern NY outside of NYC. These counties are relatively pro-gun, well at least in comparison to MD and certainly NYC.

Regardless, Mayor Bloomberg holds no sway outside NYC. The counties of Dutchess, Nassau, Orange, Putnam, Rockland, Suffolk, Sullivan, Ulster and Westchester should not be lumped together with NYC's five boroughs(counties) Bronx, New York, Queens, Kings, Richmond.

I hope you'll open up your highly regarded business to us unfortunate souls whose only sin is living in to close a proximity to the dreaded Bloomberg.

 

[Agent-J]

I live in downstate NY and I've seen the list of counties they will not ship to. Outside of NYC and it's boroughs, there is no legal reason why they can not ship to the rest of those "restricted" counties. Half of those "restricted" counties only issue FULL CARRY permits. They have very pro-2A sheriff's and judges.

It is hard enough being a gun owner in NY with the ridiculous laws (ie. AWB ban ) and 9 out of 10 bleeding heart liberal neighbors who will call the cops if they hear the word gun, but it is a shot below the belt when we have to deal with stuff like this. (Don't get me started on people who sell pre-'94 lowers for $800+).

I know you guys are running a business to make money and your FFL permit is your livelihood, but at the same time, I'm ashamed that you added your own business restrictions based on what seems to be nothing but fear.

You have to do what you have to do though.

 

[franconialocal]

A side note....

Similar but different enough.........TONS of local sporting goods stores, gun shops, fish/tackle shops, etc. where I live (Northern NH) HAVE STOPPED SELLING/ISSUING HUNTING/FISHING LIC. due to the red tape with the New Hampshire Fish and Game Dept. and *drumroll please* the BATF. I stopped by a local sport shop the other day and asked if he was still carrying ammo. He said "I think I have some .22 left in the back but other than that I won't be selling ammo any more....too much of a hassle with the state". What a shame.....

 

[KevlarTester]

Although the guys at Budsgunshop started this thread, they don't seem to be monitoring it anymore.

So I guess their NY shipping policy hasn't changed.