Ca and serial #s on bullets.....

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fjolnirsson

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SAN FRANCISCO (April 26) - California's attorney general introduced pioneering legislation on Tuesday that would require all bullets sold in the nation's most populous state to bear tiny identification numbers.

The bill, aimed at helping investigators solve crime, would require ammunition vendors to submit sales records to a state registry starting in 2007. Anyone bringing bullets into the state not bearing the tiny serial number etched by laser could be punished for up to a year in prison.

"We are losing too many of our young people to seemingly random shootings and anonymous killers," California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said in a statement. The bill "will strip criminals of their anonymity and give law enforcement evidence it can use to quickly and effectively solve more gun crimes."

The legislation -- which could become the first of its kind nationwide -- calls for California to assess fees not to exceed one-half of one cent per bullet to fund the program.

The controversial proposal could spark another major gun control debate in California, a state with some of the toughest U.S. gun control laws. Gun rights groups oppose the idea, saying criminals could easily obtain unmarked ammunition and say the plan would require a costly bureaucracy.

Ravensforge, a Seattle company which has developed a bullet coding system, says bullet engraving machines cost $300,000 to $500,000 each. But the firm says that because the United States sells ten billion bullets a year, the per bullet cost will be very low.

Ammunition manufacturers disagree.

"Although I understand the good intent behind the bill, from a manufacturing perspective it's virtually impossible, both from a cost perspective and keeping the bullet serialization in tact," said Gary Svendsen, a Federal Cartridge Company official who earlier testified at a legislative hearing in Sacramento, California.

"It would virtually obsolete tens of millions of dollars of existing manufacturing equipment," said Svendsen, who is director of quality and product service at the Anoka, Minnesota-based company.

04/26/05 20:21 ET


Another example of what happens when politicians have too much free time on their hands....
 
It's not like bullets don't deform when they hit something.

Or that the creative can pull the bullet, file off the serial number, and re-crimp.

Or that I could simply make my own bullets.

OK, time to write my representatives.
 
yeah this one is pretty darned insane, i wonder if we get ot vote against it or not?

i dont think this will fly very far. even done on a worldwide level, as stated, pretty easy to get around. as is , a state only law? gimme a break. its like what 2 1/2 hours form LA to AZ right?

about 3 1/2 from SF to Reno.

duh. duh. duh.

hopefully the gun manufacturers wont hav eto push the "cost" issue so hard, and can keep putting it down with the harder truths.
bear with me on that= ultimately, antis do not care about costs.

really- as an environmentalist, i am totally broke- but will i pay the extra 25 cents a gallon for the no MTBE gas, the recycled toilet paper, etc. of course, my principles are worth more than any $$$, nor do i have sympathy for people
who "need the work" , etc. so know a bunch of anti gun people obviously would not care how much it cost ammo makers

SO- in fighting this , i hope the sheer stupidity of this law, especially the fact that gee, i can drive a few hours and get regular ammo, and make up the gas $$ in ammo price drop!!! will get these maroons to realize how stupid this bill is.
BEcuase i may be an environmentalist, but i am also very much liking the bang bang bang. heheh
 
Excellent idea. Why? Some hacker will swipe the database from the police, and some enterprising bulletmaker will come up with bullets with custom serial numbers... that just happened to be identical to ones bought by police, politicians, etc. If said bullets fell out of some poor gunny's car near crime ridden areas... be real tragic. :evil:



In reality, everyone knows how worthless this is. Just another anti trick to make ammo more expensive and annoying to buy.
 
Excellent idea. Why? Some hacker will swipe the database from the police, and some enterprising bulletmaker will come up with bullets with custom serial numbers... that just happened to be identical to ones bought by police, politicians, etc


A HAAAA!!!! someone needs to show that that can be done and send that info to the politckians!!!!!!!!!!!!

killer shot for our side!
 
A HAAAA!!!! someone needs to show that that can be done and send that info to the politckians!!!!!!!!!!!!

killer shot for our side!

Could. Probably be a waste of time anyways. They don't care. They assume the laws they pass will never apply to them. Watch said bill. I bet you there is a list of excemptions for special people.

As soon as one bullet was successfully forged and experts can't tell the difference between the original and the force... Kinda makes any hypothetical usefulness in court worthless. Especially because someone could just get forge of the serial number on a new bullet. "Your honor, we have the REAL bullet in our hands! That one must be a forgery."

Edit : :banghead: That's the excemption. Anyone that would be excempt from typical gun laws would have the money and connects to get a forged bullet. The average guy on the streets wouldn't.
 
Apparently the committee passed it according to an AP article excerpted below. This sounds like a move to make ammo manufacturers unwilling to qualify to sell in Calif. Make ammo manufacturing so impractical that CA shooters have to make their own. At a minimum, any ammo available would cost much more than mentioned here. If not already a provision, no doubt at some point it will be illegal to possess, let alone use, ammo that is not marked. Brilliantly diabolical yet incredibly stupid.

Bill Would Put Serial Numbers on Bullets
April 26, 2005 9:39 PM EDT
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A state Senate committee approved a proposal Tuesday to put a serial number on every handgun bullet made or sold in California.

The measure cleared the Senate Public Safety Committee on a 4-2 vote over opposition from manufacturers, firearms dealers and sport shooters.

The technology exists to laser-cut bullets with a number that police could use to trace who purchased bullets used in crimes, said Democratic sponsor Sen. Joseph Dunn.

Purchasers would pay up to a half a cent per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state Department of Justice. Vendors would pay up to $50 a year.

"We'll solve a lot of crimes if this becomes law," said Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

If approved by the Legislature, the law would take effect in July 2007.
 
Now accepting applications for "State Line Shooting Supply" franchises in Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.

All franchises within 2 miles of Kali border.

You can always count on "The Looney Leftist Coast" for new & weird ideas for gun control.

Wonder if Remington, Winchester, Speer, Federal, et al, would follow the lead of Mr. Ronnie Barret, and tell California to take a flaming flying leap at a rolling doughnut..."Serial numbers? We don't need no stinkin' numbers."

Can you say "Load your own ammo?"

I knew you could.
 
I'm not sure the stateline shooting supply stores will do great business:

Anyone bringing bullets into the state not bearing the tiny serial number etched by laser could be punished for up to a year in prison.

If all of the gunnies in CA were landed in jail, the crooks would have free reign of the state. Oh wait a second...
 
If CA keeps passing these types of laws eventually they'll get what they want and the firearms industry will just pull out due to costs. That is the goal of course, not actually 'solving crimes'. A child could circumvent this foolish law.
 
Manufacturers Part in This?

Has anyone given any thought to the part the manufacturer may have played in all of this? The way I read the article, only one ammunition maker has the setup to do this, at a cost of $350,000 to $500,000 per machine. Perhaps they think they can get a return on the investment by making sure only they can sell in that market. If so, watch out- they'll try to expand it nationwide ASAP. Just a thought.

In any event, this nonsense needs to be stomped, NOW. Just one more tiny step in eliminating citizen's rights.
 
This makes sense - they haven't been overly successul in their various anti-gun measures, so now they're going after the ammo.
 
Wonder if Remington, Winchester, Speer, Federal, et al, would follow the lead of Mr. Ronnie Barret, and tell California to take a flaming flying leap at a rolling doughnut..."Serial numbers? We don't need no stinkin' numbers."

Probably not. I wish they would. I also wish Glock, S&W, Beretta, HK and the rest would do the same thing, but they wont. Not until a few more companies start getting firm with these states and denying them weapons, training, ammo and support will the others follow suit. Once several do, maybe the politicians will wake up and smell the coffee.
 
If CA keeps passing these types of laws eventually they'll get what they want and the firearms industry will just pull out due to costs. That is the goal of course, not actually 'solving crimes'. A child could circumvent this foolish law.

I'd hate to see that with regard to my brothers in arms in Kali, but on the other hand, can you imagine the hotbed of criminal activity the state would become? It would be a wonderful example of what happens when guns are removed from society.

For some reason, what has happened in other countries doesn't translate for people. Maybe if one of our own states failed miserably, the general population would begin to understand the reasons gun control doesn't work.

Then again, Washingon, DC, Chicago and New York City should have been plenty to learn by.
:banghead:
 
The bill "will strip criminals of their anonymity and give law enforcement evidence it can use to quickly and effectively solve more gun crimes."

[sarcasm]Yes, because even though a criminal is willing to kill someone, they wouldn't stoop to stealing ammo from someone else, or grinding the number off, or even using non-marked ammo![/sarcasm]
 
If California were its own nation, it would be the 7th largest economy in the world. Thus, I suspect that even with all of California's anti-gun laws, ammo makers sell more in California than in several pro-gun states combined.

Ammo makers aren't going to abandon that market on principle.

Now, whether they pass the costs onto just California shooters or spread it around to everyone will remain to be seen. If it were me (as a purely economic decision), I'd spread the costs around to everyone so that no market gets hit with too big of a price increase. That means this law might raise ammo costs throughout the USA.

In other news, California proposes tagging mosquitoes to help trace the spread of malaria.
 
If manufacturers put up with the current extortion, uh, safety testing they will put up with the numbering. Maybe I can get a slug job for retirement working in the new bureaucracy.
 
ooooooooo! oooooooooooo!

I got a GREAT idea. Use those tracking pellets like the ones placed under the skin of dogs! That way you just scan 'em and you can sweep a detector around to find them! Sweet! Can I be a politician now??

:barf:

LOL I have a feeling if this law passes there will be a lot of hotplates and torches and block lead sold. as well as any old piping being suddenly replaced ;)
 
The lead-free ammo wave will come to a halt if this bill passes.
Then we will have the environmentalists fighting the MMM'rs.
Hardly. They'll just go for the low common denominator and say there shouldn't be any ammunition at all.
 
Allow me to Quote Einstien

"Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Fitting Eh? :banghead:
 
"It would virtually obsolete tens of millions of dollars of existing manufacturing equipment," said Svendsen, who is director of quality and product service at the Anoka, Minnesota-based company.
And so the ammo manufacturers will simply choose to stop selling in california.
 
ten billion..??

Ravensforge, a Seattle company which has developed a bullet coding system, says bullet engraving machines cost $300,000 to $500,000 each. But the firm says that because the United States sells ten billion bullets a year, the per bullet cost will be very low.

these laser numbers are going to be VERY small..do a quick calc in excel and you can fill an entire worksheet in very little time...ohh..they are going to do an "alpha/numeric" system or perhaps a symble/numeric...good luck

what a bunch of junk...just politicians being politicians..lying & whoring...and dame..they are good at it

wolf
 
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