Libertyteeth
Member
Maybe the worst part of this is that it would require you to register your ammunition purchases, then they would have it on record what calibers of handgun you own, if that is all that is currently covered. 
Ca and serial #s on bullets.....
- Thread starter fjolnirsson
- Start date
- Status
So I wrote a letter...
to the reporter...betting that he isn't familiar with firearms at all, but ***?? Worth a shot. If he answers, maybe I'll invite him to the range and show him my Dillon and he'll understand more than to parrot the AG...Here is the letter. Versions of it will go to everyone in Sacramento i can think of. If you like it, feel free to borrow...j
to the reporter...betting that he isn't familiar with firearms at all, but ***?? Worth a shot. If he answers, maybe I'll invite him to the range and show him my Dillon and he'll understand more than to parrot the AG...Here is the letter. Versions of it will go to everyone in Sacramento i can think of. If you like it, feel free to borrow...j
Mr. Berthelsen,
Regarding your article in Wednesday's Chronicle, 'Panel OKs ID marks on bullets Police would be able to trace ammo used in crimes in state,' SAAMI, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute disputes the utility of the program and the capability of manufacturers to implement it. Please read the article behind this hyperlink: http://www.saami.org/news/CA_ammoSer040505.htm . At least you will have information from a number of sources. Since 1926 SAAMI has been the principle organization in the United States actively engaged in the development and promulgation of product standards for firearms and ammunition.
The state of California has been doing its best to drive gun owners and gun enthusiasts away. They have made it increasingly difficult to purchase a firearm, collect firearms and even get rid of them if an owner no longer wants them.
Gun ownership is a civil liberty as important as the freedom to associate and freedom of speech. I hope that you will recognize that the serialization of ammunition components isn't so much an attempt to fight crime, but to deprive the citizens of California of a valuable civil right.
Sincerely,
I think the biggest barrier to passing this is the collection of a "user fee", which according to the CA constitution requires a 2/3 vote in the house and a 2/3 popular vote (that's what killed the ammo tax last time out).
Adopt regulations relating to the assessment and collection of end-user fees in an amount not to exceed one-half of one cent ($0.005) per round of ammunition or per bullet, where the accumulated fee amount will not exceed the cost to pay for the infrastructure, implementation, operational, enforcement, and future development costs of this chapter.
They're just pandering to the base.
But I gotta admit, TX is starting to look very attractive.
Adopt regulations relating to the assessment and collection of end-user fees in an amount not to exceed one-half of one cent ($0.005) per round of ammunition or per bullet, where the accumulated fee amount will not exceed the cost to pay for the infrastructure, implementation, operational, enforcement, and future development costs of this chapter.
They're just pandering to the base.
But I gotta admit, TX is starting to look very attractive.
PrudentGT
Member
As for the issue of the resulting increased cost of ammo -- law-abiding sportsmen and hobbyists use *lots* of ammo, they'll pay for this insanity. Criminals only need a couple of rounds here and there. I see new revenue streams from people unscrupulous enought to handload unmarked ammo at exorbitant prices. If only some appreciable percentage of CA politicians or their constituents understood the very basics of supply and demand. We're not talking graduate macro econ here...
As for the effectiveness of the proposal -- ummmm, firearms have serial numbers too, right? No crime since we started doing *that,* right? In '91 US DOJ said that 40% of firearms used in crimes came from friends/family, another 40% from "the street" or other illegal source. Stolen guns come with stolen ammo, right? Pretend for a moment that you're a criminal who's not monumentally stupid. You've already decided to do something nefarious, what's breaking this proposed law compared to the mayhem you're already contemplating? People who use firearms in criminal enterprises have no compunction in ignoring laws about where and what kind of ammo you buy.
And let's not forget about our old friend, unintended consequences. I see the bill only applies to handgun ammunition. Will California politicians please stop encouraging criminals to become more and more proficient with increasingly effective weapons? Please? Time was most of the criminal element wielded some cheap Jennings/Lorcin/jammomatic POS -- whatever was cheapest on the street. Now a stolen gun's more likely to be drop-tested and DOJ-approved. Comforting. If I were in the tinfoil hat crowd, I might think that politicians *want* the violence to become more horrific...
*Sigh* Just another excuse to stock up, I guess...
As for the effectiveness of the proposal -- ummmm, firearms have serial numbers too, right? No crime since we started doing *that,* right? In '91 US DOJ said that 40% of firearms used in crimes came from friends/family, another 40% from "the street" or other illegal source. Stolen guns come with stolen ammo, right? Pretend for a moment that you're a criminal who's not monumentally stupid. You've already decided to do something nefarious, what's breaking this proposed law compared to the mayhem you're already contemplating? People who use firearms in criminal enterprises have no compunction in ignoring laws about where and what kind of ammo you buy.
And let's not forget about our old friend, unintended consequences. I see the bill only applies to handgun ammunition. Will California politicians please stop encouraging criminals to become more and more proficient with increasingly effective weapons? Please? Time was most of the criminal element wielded some cheap Jennings/Lorcin/jammomatic POS -- whatever was cheapest on the street. Now a stolen gun's more likely to be drop-tested and DOJ-approved. Comforting. If I were in the tinfoil hat crowd, I might think that politicians *want* the violence to become more horrific...
*Sigh* Just another excuse to stock up, I guess...
Inoxmark
Member
This bill is simple majority.
Last year's ammo tax bill was killed by none other than Arnold who vetoed the bill after the senate and assembly happily voted for it.
Last year's ammo tax bill was killed by none other than Arnold who vetoed the bill after the senate and assembly happily voted for it.
Here's the latest...
Sacramento -- Legislation that would require handgun ammunition to carry identifying markings that could be used to trace spent rounds at crime scenes back to the person who purchased the bullets passed out of a state Senate committee Tuesday.
If the bill ultimately becomes law, California would become the first state in the nation to impose such requirements on bullet manufacturers. It has the support of law enforcement officials but is opposed by gun interests such as the NRA, bullet manufacturers and shooting enthusiasts.
The proposal would provide investigators with a huge leap forward in their efforts to trace ammunition at a crime scene to the person who fired it. Though ballistics testing enables police to connect a bullet to the gun that fired it, its use in investigations is limited because investigators need to recover both the gun and the bullet to confirm a match.
While bullets used in a crime may have been lost or stolen from their original purchaser, knowing who that person is will provide a starting point for investigators that they previously have not had, supporters say. Randy Rossi, the director of the firearms division at the state Department of Justice, likened it to "a license plate falling off a car when driven from a crime scene."
Noting that California homicides increased to 2,400 last year from 2,000 the year before -- with 45 percent unsolved -- law enforcement officials urged senators on the committee to vote for the bill. Nearly three-quarters of the state's homicides in 2003 were committed with a firearm.
"We're going to solve (more) crimes if this bill becomes law," Attorney General Bill Lockyer testified.
Opponents said the new requirement would impose difficult financial burdens on the high-volume, low-margin business of bullet manufacturing, raising the cost of ammunition and probably driving some companies out the state -- if not out of business altogether.
Lawrence G. Keane, the general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said the proposal would present bullet makers with a "Hobson's choice -- either comply and go bankrupt, or abandon the California market."
The bill, SB357 by Sen. Joe Dunn, D-Garden Grove, was passed by the Senate Public Safety Committee on a 4-2 vote along party lines. It still must be passed by both houses of the Legislature and be signed by the governor before it can become law.
It would require handgun manufacturers to mark bullets with unique identifiers, such as serial numbers. Those numbers would be used to track whom the bullets are sold to, including the name and address of the purchaser. The information would be maintained in an electronic database run by the attorney general's office.
The legislation applies only to handgun ammunition, not long guns. It also contains a provision that would require all bullets manufactured and sold in the state to carry the new identifiers by July 2007.
Dunn said that the far-off effective date would give people enough time to expend their existing supplies of ammunition but that there needed to be a firm date after which new supplies must be marked.
Sheriffs and police chiefs from several counties and cities, including Alameda County and Emeryville, also testified in support.
Lockyer likened the proposal to previous legislation that advanced law enforcement investigation efforts, such as funding for DNA labs.
"The weighing of public benefits versus private rights tilts heavily in favor of the public benefits," he said.
E-mail Christian Berthelsen at [email protected].
Page B - 1
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/27/BAG21CG0KQ1.DTL
Sacramento -- Legislation that would require handgun ammunition to carry identifying markings that could be used to trace spent rounds at crime scenes back to the person who purchased the bullets passed out of a state Senate committee Tuesday.
If the bill ultimately becomes law, California would become the first state in the nation to impose such requirements on bullet manufacturers. It has the support of law enforcement officials but is opposed by gun interests such as the NRA, bullet manufacturers and shooting enthusiasts.
The proposal would provide investigators with a huge leap forward in their efforts to trace ammunition at a crime scene to the person who fired it. Though ballistics testing enables police to connect a bullet to the gun that fired it, its use in investigations is limited because investigators need to recover both the gun and the bullet to confirm a match.
While bullets used in a crime may have been lost or stolen from their original purchaser, knowing who that person is will provide a starting point for investigators that they previously have not had, supporters say. Randy Rossi, the director of the firearms division at the state Department of Justice, likened it to "a license plate falling off a car when driven from a crime scene."
Noting that California homicides increased to 2,400 last year from 2,000 the year before -- with 45 percent unsolved -- law enforcement officials urged senators on the committee to vote for the bill. Nearly three-quarters of the state's homicides in 2003 were committed with a firearm.
"We're going to solve (more) crimes if this bill becomes law," Attorney General Bill Lockyer testified.
Opponents said the new requirement would impose difficult financial burdens on the high-volume, low-margin business of bullet manufacturing, raising the cost of ammunition and probably driving some companies out the state -- if not out of business altogether.
Lawrence G. Keane, the general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said the proposal would present bullet makers with a "Hobson's choice -- either comply and go bankrupt, or abandon the California market."
The bill, SB357 by Sen. Joe Dunn, D-Garden Grove, was passed by the Senate Public Safety Committee on a 4-2 vote along party lines. It still must be passed by both houses of the Legislature and be signed by the governor before it can become law.
It would require handgun manufacturers to mark bullets with unique identifiers, such as serial numbers. Those numbers would be used to track whom the bullets are sold to, including the name and address of the purchaser. The information would be maintained in an electronic database run by the attorney general's office.
The legislation applies only to handgun ammunition, not long guns. It also contains a provision that would require all bullets manufactured and sold in the state to carry the new identifiers by July 2007.
Dunn said that the far-off effective date would give people enough time to expend their existing supplies of ammunition but that there needed to be a firm date after which new supplies must be marked.
Sheriffs and police chiefs from several counties and cities, including Alameda County and Emeryville, also testified in support.
Lockyer likened the proposal to previous legislation that advanced law enforcement investigation efforts, such as funding for DNA labs.
"The weighing of public benefits versus private rights tilts heavily in favor of the public benefits," he said.
E-mail Christian Berthelsen at [email protected].
Page B - 1
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/27/BAG21CG0KQ1.DTL
thorn726
Member
it doesnt apply to long gun ammo?
so ak 47s, where does that ammo come form?
this is so retarded . what percent are handgun crimes?
so ak 47s, where does that ammo come form?
this is so retarded . what percent are handgun crimes?
Selfdfenz
Member
This is just version 2.0 of the Cali ammo tax. The laser printing is just a distraction. Wiggle the right hand, and slap with the left. 1/2 a cent a round will mutate to 5 or 10 cents quick enough.
It's also version 2.0 of what we all know and love as ballistic fingerprinting, which failed.
I argue the technology will not work or work poorly just like ballistic finger printing.
If it passes will it kill the 22? It would seem to make casting bullets out in the garage illegal. Anything that increases the $ of ammo decrease business at ranges and gun shops, even Walmart. While the politicos can convince any media fool it only touches handguns I seem to recall Thompson Center chambers many rifle calibers in handguns. Will the shotgun become the weapon of choice in Cali gangbanger circles?
I don't believe the ammo makers will stop selling into the Cali market as, like steel shot, it gives them an opportunity to replace a $5 product with a $10 product and mutes competition around the change.
Ford stopped selling patrol cars to cities that sued them over the burning Crown Victoria. I understand the City of Dallas, a city that was looking for big bucks and figured they could beat Ford out of a bundle, is dropping their action because they need some new cars and Ford is the best product.
Probelm solved. Ford had a better idea and staying power to boot. If the ammo makers want to kill this law they can do it before it is enacted by making public they will follow Ford's policy if the law is passed. No sales or support to Cali LE or state agencies if the law passes. End of discussion, end of the backdoor ammo tax.
It's also version 2.0 of what we all know and love as ballistic fingerprinting, which failed.
I argue the technology will not work or work poorly just like ballistic finger printing.
If it passes will it kill the 22? It would seem to make casting bullets out in the garage illegal. Anything that increases the $ of ammo decrease business at ranges and gun shops, even Walmart. While the politicos can convince any media fool it only touches handguns I seem to recall Thompson Center chambers many rifle calibers in handguns. Will the shotgun become the weapon of choice in Cali gangbanger circles?
I don't believe the ammo makers will stop selling into the Cali market as, like steel shot, it gives them an opportunity to replace a $5 product with a $10 product and mutes competition around the change.
Ford stopped selling patrol cars to cities that sued them over the burning Crown Victoria. I understand the City of Dallas, a city that was looking for big bucks and figured they could beat Ford out of a bundle, is dropping their action because they need some new cars and Ford is the best product.
Probelm solved. Ford had a better idea and staying power to boot. If the ammo makers want to kill this law they can do it before it is enacted by making public they will follow Ford's policy if the law is passed. No sales or support to Cali LE or state agencies if the law passes. End of discussion, end of the backdoor ammo tax.
Brett Bellmore
Member
Oh, it would drive most of them out of the market. What you're missing is that $10,000 fine for every 50 bullets they mistakenly don't mark. Nobody is perfect, your fancy laser etcher goes on the blink for a few seconds, QC doesn't catch it, and bingo! You're bankrupt.
It just won't be worth it to most manufacturers. One might set up a special plant just to serve California, with wild levels of quality control, and prices to match, but that's about it, there won't be cut throat competition in THAT market anymore.
It just won't be worth it to most manufacturers. One might set up a special plant just to serve California, with wild levels of quality control, and prices to match, but that's about it, there won't be cut throat competition in THAT market anymore.
Brett Bellmore
Member
And, have you considered oddball handguns chambered for rifle cartridges? The notion that this doesn't cover rifle ammo is a scam. ALL ammo is pistol ammo, if they want to get hard nosed about it. And they will...
mfree
Member
Now we need to get ammo companies to stop selling to Cali LEOs. :-D
A month of that and they'll be screaming at the politica...
A month of that and they'll be screaming at the politica...
Gunsnrovers
Member
I would be grateful if the following were to happen (though I know it never will):
a) firearm manufacturers stopped sending the PRK pistols for their drop tests.
b) ammunition manufacturers refused to mark thier ammunition and refused to ship to PRK government agencies as well.
a) firearm manufacturers stopped sending the PRK pistols for their drop tests.
b) ammunition manufacturers refused to mark thier ammunition and refused to ship to PRK government agencies as well.
beerslurpy
member
Actually yes, if they cut all ammo to CA police and govt officials, that would completely murder the anti-gun movement over there.
Unless they plan to require all police to use the new expensive bullets so that they cant get away with crimes either.
Unless they plan to require all police to use the new expensive bullets so that they cant get away with crimes either.
$0.005 per bullet. On a case of ammo that's $5 more in taxes. Then there's the cost to the ammo manufacturer in new equipment, additional time spent making the bullets, and in documenting and tracking the serial numbers. Add to that the additional expense to retailers in record keeping, and you just added a huge tax to ammo.
The percentage of ammo that's used in crimes or by criminals is very, very small.
They wish to levy a huge tax on what is not only a legal, but constitutionally protected activity, for what is likely very questional benefit.
If I had any faith in our courts applying the constitution, I'd say this law would never stand even if passed. Sadly, I don't have that faith in the courts.
The percentage of ammo that's used in crimes or by criminals is very, very small.
They wish to levy a huge tax on what is not only a legal, but constitutionally protected activity, for what is likely very questional benefit.
If I had any faith in our courts applying the constitution, I'd say this law would never stand even if passed. Sadly, I don't have that faith in the courts.
K-Romulus
Member
built in self-destruct?
The only exemptions for gov/LEO seem to be the following:
SEC. 3. Section 12314 is added to the Penal Code
, to read:
12314. . . .
5) Possession by peace officers from other states during the
discharge of their official duties in California.
(6) Possession by members of the California National Guard during
the discharge of their official duties.
The Senate Committee analysis seems to back this up:
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_0351-0400/sb_357_cfa_20050425_143651_sen_comm.html
This bill does exempt peace officers from other states from its
provisions while they are discharging their official duties.
There is no exemption in this bill for California law
enforcement officers from it's provisions regarding the use of
"serialized handgun ammunition" commencing July 1, 2007, in
their service or private handguns, whether on duty or off. That
may be entirely appropriate since any such exemption would not
only result in more "non-serialized" handgun ammunition in use
in the state but the use of such ammunition might be useful in
circumstances where a law enforcement officer does use a
firearm. Nor is there any exception for federal law enforcement
officers nor other military in this state.
I doubt even Lockyer would try to prosecute BP or FBI agents, or the 1stMarDiv
, for having non-etched ammo. I wonder how high the taxes would be raised in CA to pay for the CA LEO's etched ammo to be imported from China?
The only exemptions for gov/LEO seem to be the following:
SEC. 3. Section 12314 is added to the Penal Code
, to read:
12314. . . .
5) Possession by peace officers from other states during the
discharge of their official duties in California.
(6) Possession by members of the California National Guard during
the discharge of their official duties.
The Senate Committee analysis seems to back this up:
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_0351-0400/sb_357_cfa_20050425_143651_sen_comm.html
This bill does exempt peace officers from other states from its
provisions while they are discharging their official duties.
There is no exemption in this bill for California law
enforcement officers from it's provisions regarding the use of
"serialized handgun ammunition" commencing July 1, 2007, in
their service or private handguns, whether on duty or off. That
may be entirely appropriate since any such exemption would not
only result in more "non-serialized" handgun ammunition in use
in the state but the use of such ammunition might be useful in
circumstances where a law enforcement officer does use a
firearm. Nor is there any exception for federal law enforcement
officers nor other military in this state.
I doubt even Lockyer would try to prosecute BP or FBI agents, or the 1stMarDiv
, for having non-etched ammo. I wonder how high the taxes would be raised in CA to pay for the CA LEO's etched ammo to be imported from China?
Last edited:
Inoxmark, why is this one a simple majority?
Any new taxes levied by the lesgislature require a 2/3 majority in the house and 2/3 popular vote. Calling this a usage fee was tried before (i.e. gasoline usage fee) and was shown to be new taxation that requires said super majority.
Any new taxes levied by the lesgislature require a 2/3 majority in the house and 2/3 popular vote. Calling this a usage fee was tried before (i.e. gasoline usage fee) and was shown to be new taxation that requires said super majority.
I just love Lockyer's quote about solving more crimes if they have this capability. He is absolutely correct. But it's not more murders or robberies they'll solve. It's the conviction of a whole new class of criminals that this law would create. Folks that most of us would think of as just normal people.
This is only an effort to control the population, not to intended to have an impact on real criminals.
I have long advocated that people who love the constitution should not leave the state, but stay and participate. If this becomes law, I think I'll have to change that veiw. And if I move my family out, California will lose a registered nurse and high school teacher. Last time I checked it desparately needed all of those professionals it could get.
Bob
This is only an effort to control the population, not to intended to have an impact on real criminals.
I have long advocated that people who love the constitution should not leave the state, but stay and participate. If this becomes law, I think I'll have to change that veiw. And if I move my family out, California will lose a registered nurse and high school teacher. Last time I checked it desparately needed all of those professionals it could get.
Bob
Brett Bellmore
Member
All they've got to do is say that firing their gun is a legitimate way of "disposing" of unserialized ammo, and it falls under
Governments pull bigger verbal tricks than THAT all the time.
Governments pull bigger verbal tricks than THAT all the time.
odysseus
Member
Curious, what's the NRA doing about it?
lostone1413
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2004
- Messages
- 447
I know their are a few good people in CA But the best thing to happen to the country is if it floats out into the ocean. Have to laugh to when they tallk about the LEOs being pro gun. Never seen an anti 2nd amendment bill they didn't back. Tell you who to trust?
jlwatts3
Member
The further along this thing goes, the more sick to my stomach I become and the more time I spend on monster.com looking for jobs in the US.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
There's two ways they could go with this: the PRK could either use this as a wedge to serialize rifle ammo or they could use this to ban the sale and possession of handguns chambered for rifle cartridges. I guarantee you that it will be one or the other.
I'd agree with the sentiment except for two things: 1) I wouldn't wish such to happen to my worst enemy and 2) Examine the economy of Southern California and its constribution to the national economy. Contact a university and ask an economist just how large a depression the loss of Southern California would throw the US economy into...not to mention the world. I think that the economist would tell you that the Great Depression would renamed and would thereafter be called the second Greatest Depression. That being said-geologists say that it's not a question of if with the Big One...that it's a question of when. You won't be seeing me in those parts.
My understanding of the LEO organizations that support gun control measures is that the organizations are ones that are controlled by LEA management. We need to start looking at ways to change LEA management.
It might be easier to do this than to get the laws we'd like through the legislative process.
Bacon
Member
San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association Opposes Handgun Ban
Thursday April 28, 2:17 pm ET
SAN DIEGO, April 28 /PRNewswire/ -- The following statement was released today by the San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association:
Assemblyman Paul Koretz, the West Hollywood Democrat who successfully pushed an unconstitutional ban on civilian owned single-shot, bolt-action .50 caliber rifles last year, has introduced AB 352, a measure that amounts to a de-facto ban on semiautomatic handguns. The bill slid through the liberal dominated public safety and appropriations committees, and is presently on the floor of the Assembly.
Mr. Koretz maintains that new microstamping technology enables gun manufacturers to etch microscopic characters that identify the make, model and serial number of the pistol on the internal working parts of the gun, and which can be transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case fired. He claims that this will aid police in determining the perpetrator of a gun crime from expended casings found at the scene. This sounds almost plausible until you consider the vast majority of guns used by criminals are stolen, and the huge number of semiautomatic pistols purchased before the proposed law's January 1, 2007 effective date. One wonders how many firings the microscopic characters would survive before being eroded. This bill is an exercise in futility as an effective crime-fighting tool.
But AB 352's true intent is not really public safety. By expanding the definition of an unsafe handgun to include any semiautomatic pistol not designed and equipped with this microscopic array of identity markings, this bill as worded effectively becomes a ban on new handguns. This wonder technology is unproven, and even if it were possible to execute, the manufacturing costs would be prohibitive, thus driving manufacturers out of the California market.
What will happen to law enforcement guns? Ronnie Barrett, Owner and CEO of Barrett Firearms, the primary manufacturer of .50 caliber rifles for civilian, military and police use, watched legislative hearings where Los Angeles Police Department officers promoted the deceptive propaganda that .50 caliber rifles were extraordinarily susceptible to terrorist use. After the ban became law, Mr. Barrett stated that his company "cannot legally sell any of its products to lawbreakers. Therefore, since California's passing of AB 50, the state is not in compliance with the U.S. Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments, and we will not sell nor service any of our products to any government agency of the state of California."
The San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association urges all freedom loving citizens to call their state legislators and the governor -- NOW.
About the San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association
The San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association is a California Rifle & Pistol Association firearms club and promotes safety and education in the sport of shooting. We also educate the public on the Second Amendment and legislative issues impacting the right to keep and bear arms.
Source: San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association
Thursday April 28, 2:17 pm ET
SAN DIEGO, April 28 /PRNewswire/ -- The following statement was released today by the San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association:
Assemblyman Paul Koretz, the West Hollywood Democrat who successfully pushed an unconstitutional ban on civilian owned single-shot, bolt-action .50 caliber rifles last year, has introduced AB 352, a measure that amounts to a de-facto ban on semiautomatic handguns. The bill slid through the liberal dominated public safety and appropriations committees, and is presently on the floor of the Assembly.
Mr. Koretz maintains that new microstamping technology enables gun manufacturers to etch microscopic characters that identify the make, model and serial number of the pistol on the internal working parts of the gun, and which can be transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case fired. He claims that this will aid police in determining the perpetrator of a gun crime from expended casings found at the scene. This sounds almost plausible until you consider the vast majority of guns used by criminals are stolen, and the huge number of semiautomatic pistols purchased before the proposed law's January 1, 2007 effective date. One wonders how many firings the microscopic characters would survive before being eroded. This bill is an exercise in futility as an effective crime-fighting tool.
But AB 352's true intent is not really public safety. By expanding the definition of an unsafe handgun to include any semiautomatic pistol not designed and equipped with this microscopic array of identity markings, this bill as worded effectively becomes a ban on new handguns. This wonder technology is unproven, and even if it were possible to execute, the manufacturing costs would be prohibitive, thus driving manufacturers out of the California market.
What will happen to law enforcement guns? Ronnie Barrett, Owner and CEO of Barrett Firearms, the primary manufacturer of .50 caliber rifles for civilian, military and police use, watched legislative hearings where Los Angeles Police Department officers promoted the deceptive propaganda that .50 caliber rifles were extraordinarily susceptible to terrorist use. After the ban became law, Mr. Barrett stated that his company "cannot legally sell any of its products to lawbreakers. Therefore, since California's passing of AB 50, the state is not in compliance with the U.S. Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments, and we will not sell nor service any of our products to any government agency of the state of California."
The San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association urges all freedom loving citizens to call their state legislators and the governor -- NOW.
About the San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association
The San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association is a California Rifle & Pistol Association firearms club and promotes safety and education in the sport of shooting. We also educate the public on the Second Amendment and legislative issues impacting the right to keep and bear arms.
Source: San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association
TonkinTwentyMil
Member
"It has the support of Law Enforcement officials."
Well, maybe so. But...
Just who are these officials?
Specifically, what are the POLITICS of the mayors/city councils who hired them? (Duh...)
Its always the same old fraternity of anti-gun urban liberals. How long do you think these LEO "suits" would keep their jobs if they (a) actually knew anything about guns, (b) fully supported the Second Amendment, and (c) spoke their minds in public?
When anti-gun liberal voters select anti-gun lib political bosses, they just beget the same, like-minded LEO officials/lackeys they want... and deserve. These "cops" are nothing but guys/girls with graduate degrees in public administration, sociology, etc. (and we know the politics of the faculties who teach that stuff!) who maybe USED TO BE street cops -- long ago -- but have since bought into the whole Political Correctness agenda, hook, line, and sinker. Accordingly, the "support" of these "officials" is irrelevant... except to the politicians and news media who trumpet the cop-suits' keep-their-jobs "expert" support... as "evidence" of the (*fill in the blanks*) latest gun law's legitimacy.
If they REALLY wanted the opinions of the LEO community, they'd ask experienced Street Cops... OFF THE RECORD... where they couldn't be demoted/punished for expressing their un-P.C. opinions. (Fat chance.)
Wait -- I thought the Democrat party no longer wanted Gun Control in its agenda--?
Well, maybe so. But...
Just who are these officials?
Specifically, what are the POLITICS of the mayors/city councils who hired them? (Duh...)
Its always the same old fraternity of anti-gun urban liberals. How long do you think these LEO "suits" would keep their jobs if they (a) actually knew anything about guns, (b) fully supported the Second Amendment, and (c) spoke their minds in public?
When anti-gun liberal voters select anti-gun lib political bosses, they just beget the same, like-minded LEO officials/lackeys they want... and deserve. These "cops" are nothing but guys/girls with graduate degrees in public administration, sociology, etc. (and we know the politics of the faculties who teach that stuff!) who maybe USED TO BE street cops -- long ago -- but have since bought into the whole Political Correctness agenda, hook, line, and sinker. Accordingly, the "support" of these "officials" is irrelevant... except to the politicians and news media who trumpet the cop-suits' keep-their-jobs "expert" support... as "evidence" of the (*fill in the blanks*) latest gun law's legitimacy.
If they REALLY wanted the opinions of the LEO community, they'd ask experienced Street Cops... OFF THE RECORD... where they couldn't be demoted/punished for expressing their un-P.C. opinions. (Fat chance.)
Wait -- I thought the Democrat party no longer wanted Gun Control in its agenda--?
LibertyTeeth said:
They don't even have to do that...
The CA DOJ Firearms Division said:
Here you can find that, complete with a really creepy Orwellesque picture of the Utopia that is California.
Check out the FAQ's, too, whenever I think California wasn't that bad, I read them and can't decide whether I was a fool for staying there so long or a genius for getting out after only five years...
S/F
Farnham
Edited to add: Oh yeah, forgot to mention that California's use of prohibitive taxes to "shape" the population extends to tobacco as well. Chewing tobacco (yes, I know it's a disgusting habit and yes, I'm fine with that) and cigarettes DOUBLED in price overnight with zero fanfare. $4 a can to $8 a can. Save my lip, and repave a highway all at once...fascists.
F
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