can I go to jail for this?
- Thread starter megatronrules
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Why wouldn't they have been understanding? Isn't a CCW holder allowed to clear leather in Washington when a pair of thugs brandish a switchblade, and make it obvious they also have a firearm as they approach?UWstudent said:
+1pauli said:
I'm not so sure that it's such a good idea (legally) to be drawing your weapon because a stranger doesn't elect to interact with you simply because you demand they do.
"Well your honer - he didn't listen to my commands. Would anyone but a criminal ignore me?"
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HankB
Member
That's one good thing about pocket carry - if something arouses your suspicions, you can have your hand on the gun in a good firing grip with nobody the wiser . . . and still be no more than 1/2 second away from shooting, if you have to.
The Drew
Member
AirForceShooter said:
As told to me by a local DA and Sherrif. In pennsylvania, drawing a gun is using force, but not deadly force, Therefore you can use the threat of a gun in defense of yourself when deadly force isn't justified, when the gun is fired, it becomes deadly force.
You did the right thing.
Lobotomy Boy
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Good advice. I had a very minor incident like this that, had I reacted in the manner of the original poster, could have been very bad. A friend had to leave town suddenly because of a family death and asked me to come and get his dog after work. After his divorce he bought a house in one of the worst parts of the metro area because that was all he could afford at the time. I went to his house and took his dog around the block before putting the dog in my truck to bring her to my house. As we got around the block, a SUV filled with gang bangers came rolling by me extremely slow. It followed me half a block, then stopped about 50 feet ahead of me. I stopped. All the while I had my hand on the .357 in my pocket. I had no intention of drawing unless someone pulled a weapon, but I wanted to be ready should the situation become dangerous. The guys scoped me out for what seemed like a longer time than it probably was, then drove away.
I told my friend about this and he got a very strange look on his face. He said, "Was it a red Jeep Cherokee with tinted windows?" I said it was. "Those were my neighbors. They come over and throw a ball for my dog when she's outside in the yard. They probably thought you were stealing her and were just making sure she was all right."
Careful with that logic! Understand that you can always choose not to shoot. If, during your decision to draw, your 1 to 1.5 second draw, and shooting, the threat stops threatening you or another, you can decide NOT to shoot.
NOT SHOOTING is always an option. . . even if it costs you.
Don't get yourself in a mindset where you find that the threat has reduced, but now you've got a gun in your hand and you figure "well, now I've just gotta shoot." It's not the case.
Trust me-- if the initial threat was real (or even [or especially] if it wasn't), you'll do a lot better explaining off the "brandishing" allegation than if you shoot. I don't know about FL, but here in TX, "brandishing" is a piddlin' Class C misdemeanor, while Murder, Attempted Murder, and Aggravated Assault are major felonies.
Report the incident to the cops?
I can see some value in that- as other folks here have said, so the guy doesn't go there first with a lie.
That said, the cops are not your friend. They are not there not to stop crimes but to take reports and recruit bodies for Leviathan's 'justice' system.
You did fine, just let it go. Learn the lesson and next time out be more aware earlier and have a better chance of avoiding the bad situation.
Let me suggest also that if you have room on your body for a handgun, you also have room for a small can of pepper spray.
I can see some value in that- as other folks here have said, so the guy doesn't go there first with a lie.
That said, the cops are not your friend. They are not there not to stop crimes but to take reports and recruit bodies for Leviathan's 'justice' system.
You did fine, just let it go. Learn the lesson and next time out be more aware earlier and have a better chance of avoiding the bad situation.
Let me suggest also that if you have room on your body for a handgun, you also have room for a small can of pepper spray.
USMCRotrHed
Member
Articulate the threat
I'm not going to say what you did was right or wrong. I was not there and that is the only way to know for sure. That said, if you felt you were in grave danger, you did the right thing. You even did the legal thing if you can articulate the threat to the authorities (police, DA, and jury). It only takes someone about 3 seconds to cover 21 feet and do harm to you. A lethal threat (gun, knife, baseball bat, or fist used by a capable person) warrents a lethal response. Just be able to ARTICULATE the threat and you were within the scope of most states CCW laws.
It is still good advice to go to a different location if you noticed the threat before you got out of your car. A good defence lawyer could make a convincing case if he could prove you were aware of the situation and did nothing to keep yourself out of it. A fight never fought is a fight won.
There is a good book out there titled "Armed Response" that covers this subject very well. It was full of much of the information that was lacking in the class my state requires for a CCW license. It should be a must read for everyone who carries, even as a refresher.
I'm not going to say what you did was right or wrong. I was not there and that is the only way to know for sure. That said, if you felt you were in grave danger, you did the right thing. You even did the legal thing if you can articulate the threat to the authorities (police, DA, and jury). It only takes someone about 3 seconds to cover 21 feet and do harm to you. A lethal threat (gun, knife, baseball bat, or fist used by a capable person) warrents a lethal response. Just be able to ARTICULATE the threat and you were within the scope of most states CCW laws.
It is still good advice to go to a different location if you noticed the threat before you got out of your car. A good defence lawyer could make a convincing case if he could prove you were aware of the situation and did nothing to keep yourself out of it. A fight never fought is a fight won.
There is a good book out there titled "Armed Response" that covers this subject very well. It was full of much of the information that was lacking in the class my state requires for a CCW license. It should be a must read for everyone who carries, even as a refresher.
AirForceShooter
Member
Drew:
he's in florida.
Different state different rules.
Drawing and telling a potential attacker may seem wise and I'd probably do the same thing.
But, the law doesn't always make sense.
If you get a reasonable LEO (and most are) you're fine.
AFS
he's in florida.
Different state different rules.
Drawing and telling a potential attacker may seem wise and I'd probably do the same thing.
But, the law doesn't always make sense.
If you get a reasonable LEO (and most are) you're fine.
AFS
For many folks who carry a 1911, out of the holster means the safety is off.Gunpacker said:
That is my practice, except when clearing the house. (At that time, my thumb rests lightly on the safety, ready to mash it down and use the extended safety as another means to control recoil.)
Outside the house, if I draw my 1911, the safety will be switched off as part of the draw. I would not have drawn unless given good reason.
megatronrules
Member
I know you guys ALL have valid points and arguments but the reason I diddn't go to the cops is the same reason another poster mentioned. And thats because then this guy probably would be able to find out my name and address. I still say that the fact that HE after having a .45 pointed at him diddn't call police tells me I was right about him. I know as a law abiding citizen that if some pulled a gun on me and was unarmed and got away I'd be on my cell phone calling 911 ASAP! What was he gonna tell the cops? I was going to assault and mug him but he had a gun so I coulden't? I am going to get some pepper spray today whats a good brand/strength percent to get?
numbertwentynine
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I have been mugged four times in the last ten years three of the events happened exactly like you described only I did nothing and had the privilige being threatened with two guns one knife and a club. These things happen very fast and the weapons were never presented untill the muggers were inside my comfort zone. I probably would not have pointed the gun at the individual but making it ready was probably not a bad idea. lisining to your gut is a good idea, in 3 of the muggings i have experienced I had the feeling that it was about to happen yet I was to worryed about looking odd by taking action.
Did you save yourself from being harrassed or mugged? Most likely. But since you're looking for input... you are, aren't you? 
If you were uncomfortable with the guy from the get-go, you probably should have taken steps to de-escalate a possible confrontation, rather than putting yourself in proximity to him, and creating one.
If you were uncomfortable with the guy from the get-go, you probably should have taken steps to de-escalate a possible confrontation, rather than putting yourself in proximity to him, and creating one.
Shootcraps said:
I see you're saying "unarmed" a lot. lol
a man with iron eye contact is approaching you... that is OBVIOUSLY a hostile intent (if you don't think so, good luck on the streets). He might have tucked in his pants: a gun, a knife, a stick. To pull it up will take him exactly half second once he's close enough. Another second to make sure you'll never even have a chance to reach for your firearm.
Wake up and face real life - on the street things happen fast.
yes, I'd rather take a chance going on probation for brandishing a weapon if I sense an obvious and expressed hostile intent such as man approaching me for no reason with iron eye contact.
Shootcraps
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megatronrules said:
Dude you are soooo confused. I strongly suggest you give all of your weapons to a trusted family member. They you need counseling and lots of training before you think about carrying a weapon. Good luck.
Shootcraps
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ka50 said:
Because the guy was unarmed. He had no weapon displayed or in his hands. That's pretty frickin' simple.
Maybe you can use your psychic powers in your defense, but I doubt it.
azredhawk44
Member
Except, what if this particular BG was "pocket carrying"? The original poster was wearing a sweater (he reached under it for his colt 1911). The BG's clothing is undescribed at this point, but what if his hands were inside jacket pockets?
A smith snubby fits real good in there. Even a pocket auto will shoot one shot at minimum directly from a pocket.
All BG's are idiots, but some of them aren't stupid. This may have been a smart one by deliberately trying to confuse his victim up until firepower was produced.
I was just in downtown phoenix 2 hours ago walking up to our company's datacenter and a guy was walking up to me with his hands in his pockets with an inordinately large fist in one jacket pocket. I wasn't carrying at the time. Never again. That cuts the cake. I had a 1911 in the truck, 75 feet away. I ended up backing away from my destination (strangely, this guy did the exact same thing), then I came back again. He stayed away.
He could have had a cell phone or PDA in his pocket, or a gun. I dunno. May have been a legit CCW holder somehow intimidated by me (dockers, clean cut, entering a business). I dunno.
But there weren't no police around right then.
The Drew
Member
Shootcraps said:
And it seems clear that you can use your psychic powers in knowing that this guy was unarmed...
And besides being technically unarmed doesn't mean that they aren't a threat.
If you feel you were threatened, you did the right thing. However,
Always call the authorities after you draw your CCW!
He could have called the cops and said "Some pyscho just pulled a gun on me". Then you may have gotten in trouble, permit or not.
Always call the authorities after you draw your CCW!
He could have called the cops and said "Some pyscho just pulled a gun on me". Then you may have gotten in trouble, permit or not.
azredhawk44
Member
It seems that every one agrees that it is certainly a heightened awareness situation. Caution was warranted in dealing with your agressor.
Me, in your shoes, with a CCW on me:
Walk perpendicular to his line of travel, hand on weapon in holster with safety off, while attempting to communicate ("Leave me alone", "Go away"). Scanning area for any friends he is trying to drive me towards.
If he continues to close distance at reasonable walking speeds, at 25 feet I pull the weapon and put against my leg ("I have a weapon", "Stop!").
If he accelerates, makes any threatening move that indicates "weapon", or closes within 20 feet, then the gun is pointed at him with orders to "stop!" immediately, orders to lay down, etc. Acceleration = BANG.
I still can't pull the trigger until I KNOW that he's a threat to me, IMO. 10 feet? 5 feet? I've got lots of martial arts training, too. But I can't dodge a bullet any better than he can. Watching hands and eyes for intent. At this point I dunno. Safety dictates I SHOULD shoot, but conscience and law say not to in hindsight.
I am confident that with 5 feet of space between me and an adversary I can get off a shot with an unholstered weapon before he can close the distance with a knife or other short weapon, given my current training and practice.
Me, in your shoes, with a CCW on me:
Walk perpendicular to his line of travel, hand on weapon in holster with safety off, while attempting to communicate ("Leave me alone", "Go away"). Scanning area for any friends he is trying to drive me towards.
If he continues to close distance at reasonable walking speeds, at 25 feet I pull the weapon and put against my leg ("I have a weapon", "Stop!").
If he accelerates, makes any threatening move that indicates "weapon", or closes within 20 feet, then the gun is pointed at him with orders to "stop!" immediately, orders to lay down, etc. Acceleration = BANG.
I still can't pull the trigger until I KNOW that he's a threat to me, IMO. 10 feet? 5 feet? I've got lots of martial arts training, too. But I can't dodge a bullet any better than he can. Watching hands and eyes for intent. At this point I dunno. Safety dictates I SHOULD shoot, but conscience and law say not to in hindsight.
I am confident that with 5 feet of space between me and an adversary I can get off a shot with an unholstered weapon before he can close the distance with a knife or other short weapon, given my current training and practice.
To Shootcraps: Dude you are soooo confused. I strongly suggest you give your keyboard and mouse to a trusted family member. They you need counseling and lots of training before you think about posting on the internet again. Good luck.
Just to see how the shoe looks when it's on the other foot. You're way out of line to be so judgemental about someone you've never met.
Just to see how the shoe looks when it's on the other foot. You're way out of line to be so judgemental about someone you've never met.
Shootcraps
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Kurt_M said:
Bullcrap. He told us what he did and asked our opinion. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, tough.
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